Israeli - Palestinian Conflict



There's a great interview in this documentary by Pilger around 34:00 that gets to the heart of the terrorism/counter terrorism denate and how different language gets used on either side, particularly since September 11th.
 
holyland red said:
Rain of rockets. By people not interested in negotiating peace. No compromises available. You have no experience with that.
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The rain of rockets, no. Nor was there a solution to the threat of terrorist attacks as comprehensive and effective as your iron dome. Every other aspect was identical.

That's the thing about compromise. It's always possible. No matter how incompatible the two opposing positions may seem at first.
 
18:22
Hamas said to execute 20 anti-war protesters
Channel 10 reports that 20 Palestinians who participated in an anti-war protest in the Gaza Strip were rounded up by Hamas and summarily executed as alleged Israeli collaborators yesterday.

Reports yesterday indicated that 30 suspected collaborators have been executed by Hamas thus far, but it isn’t clear whether that figure included the 20 anti-war protesters.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The rain of rockets, no. Nor was there a solution to the threat of terrorist attacks as comprehensive and effective as your iron dome. Every other aspect was identical.

That's the thing about compromise. It's always possible. No matter how incompatible the two opposing positions may seem at first.
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Nothing is identical. The IRA had no territorial demands for mainland UK. End of analogy. Most of us just want to live peacefully in our own nation state. We may consider giving this up after all the rest give up theirs.

Our Iron Dome is excellent because we're quite good. I don't feel like apologising for that. I don't feel like holding our fire because we manage to intercept and prevent Palestinian war crimes. Real war crimes, like deliberate fire on civilians.
 
holyland red said:
Nothing is identical. The IRA had no territorial demands for mainland UK. End of analogy. Most of us just want to live peacefully in our own nation state. We may consider giving this up after all the rest give up theirs.

Our Iron Dome is excellent because we're quite good. I don't feel like apologising for that. I don't feel like holding our fire because we manage to intercept and prevent Palestinian war crimes. Real war crimes, like deliberate fire on civilians.
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They had territorial demands on territory under the rule of the UK government. With a majority of people that lived there in opposition to their demands. The analogy holds.

The mistake many made in the years running up to the settlement was in assuming the more vocal extremists spoke for the majority of the populace. On either side. I suspect that same mistake is what perpetuates your own cycle of violence. The moderate voice needs to be heard but it's being shouted down, on both sides.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
They had territorial demands on territory under the rule of the UK government. With a majority of people that lived there in opposition to their demands. The analogy holds.

The mistake many made in the years running up to the settlement was in assuming the more vocal extremists spoke for the majority of the populace. On either side. I suspect that same mistake is what perpetuates your own cycle of violence. The moderate voice needs to be heard but it's being shouted down, on both sides.
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No, it doesn't. Israel brought back all its GS settlers. The Palestinians have territorial demands not only in the WB, but instead they want Israel removed altogether. Analogy is crap.

Anti-war protests are held in TA. As the report in my above post suggests, anti-war protesters in Gaza were executed.
 
The IRA held a cease fire for months before the talks started otherwise they would never have started.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
I don't think the deaths of women and children and the sheer destruction of war can ever be proportionate. We're talking about truly horrific consequences. I can't look at the images of the bodies because I don't have the stomach for it and my heart, ultimately, is for those innocent families whose lives have been devastated by the bombings.

My abject horror at what is happening in Gaza does not, however, resolve the issue. I can state my displeasure all i want or talk in the empty platitudes of politicians about seeking peace etc etc, but none of that will move anybody one inch closer to stability. The problem of Hamas remains and I simply don't know how Israel should act. I am aware, if only out of empathy, that Israel must protect her people but at the same time, nobody wants to see the broken bodies of innocent men, women and children being carried from the rubble of a bomb-shattered building.

Tell me, when you have footage of rockets being fired from what you know to be Gazan schools and hospitals and you send out warnings for civilians to evacuate before you retaliate, all the while knowing that Hamas will force those civilians to stay where they are, what do you do? Do you allow Hamas to continue launching missiles from those platforms or do you strike knowing you will kill many innocent Palestinian women and children in the process. That's a truly heartbreaking decision to have to make isn't it? That's the reality of the situation.
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I really don't understand how anybody can defend Israel's actions. The death toll amongst the civilian Palestinian population is completely unacceptable and out of proportion by any rational thinking.
 
Rams said:
I really don't understand how anybody can defend Israel's actions. The death toll amongst the civilian Palestinian population is completely unacceptable and out of proportion by any rational thinking.
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Because credible sources say that Israel are doing more than any other nation on earth in any military conflict to prevent civilian casualties. Once again, what would be proportionate? How many civilian lives would you consider acceptable? Civilian casualties are always disproportionate. 1 civilian death is 1 too many. That's why it's called war.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Because credible sources say that Israel are doing more than any other nation on earth in any military conflict to prevent civilian casualties. Once again, what would be proportionate? How many civilian lives would you consider acceptable? Civilian casualties are always disproportionate. 1 civilian death is 1 too many. That's why it's called war.
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Wow. I don't know where to begin.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Because credible sources say that Israel are doing more than any other nation on earth in any military conflict to prevent civilian casualties. Once again, what would be proportionate? How many civilian lives would you consider acceptable? Civilian casualties are always disproportionate. 1 civilian death is 1 too many. That's why it's called war.
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All your posts stinks of arrogance and Evil.
 
I'm hearing there may be a deal in the works involving Egypt, the Palestinian Authority and the EU overseeing the opening of Rafa. Hope it works out.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Because credible sources say that Israel are doing more than any other nation on earth in any military conflict to prevent civilian casualties. Once again, what would be proportionate? How many civilian lives would you consider acceptable? Civilian casualties are always disproportionate. 1 civilian death is 1 too many. That's why it's called war.
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More than 100 Palestinian children have just been killed, schools & hospitals in Gaza are being bombed and the UN & every single human rights organisation is begging Israel to stop "for the sake of humanity".

Btw, here's the latest:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...royed-israeli-airstrike-100-palestinians-dead

I wonder how much suffering there is in Israel?
 
Rams said:
More than 100 Palestinian children have just been killed, schools & hospitals in Gaza are being bombed and the UN & every single human rights organisation is begging Israel to stop "for the sake of humanity".

Btw, here's the latest:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...royed-israeli-airstrike-100-palestinians-dead

I wonder how much suffering there is in Israel?
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Schools and hospitals are bombed because Hamas fire rockets out of them.

"For the sake of humanity" Hamas needs to be wiped out.
 
Obviously these rockets are putting unbearable & inhumane suffering on Israel as is the case with life in Gaza... errrmmm not.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Schools and hospitals are bombed because Hamas fire rockets out of them.

"For the sake of humanity" Hamas needs to be wiped out.
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And the rest of the population in Gaza is being wiped out as well by all accounts of things.


...for the sake of humanity stop defending the undefendable!
 
Rams said:
Obviously these rockets are putting unbearable & inhumane suffering on Israel as is the case with life in Gaza... errrmmm not.
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They are achieving their intent of baiting the Israelis into a response, which Hamas must at least partially take responsibility for. They made a conscious decision to use this tactic to try and force political change, and their people are paying a savage price for it.
 
Rams said:
And the rest of the population in Gaza is being wiped out as well by all accounts of things.


...for the sake of humanity stop defending the undefendable!
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Stop being anti-Semitic you
 
Rams said:
Obviously these rockets are putting unbearable & inhumane suffering on Israel as is the case with life in Gaza... errrmmm not.
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See, I am accused of having an "evil" view but I have a higher view of human life than those making the argument that Israel are wrong because they're killing more people. You see, any casualty of war, whether it's a combatant or civilian is one too many in my worldview. War is a tragic thing. Losses on either side of a conflict are grievous to family and friends and as is so often the case in war, they are often inflicted on civilians.

It is simply not acceptable to tell Israel to suck up their own losses to Hamas missile fire and tunnel attacks (you do know this really happens right?). That is truly evil.
 
You wouldn't defend attacks on schools or hospitals if you had such a high view of life.

No one is defending Hamas attacks. The only killers being defended here are the IDF.
 
Silva said:
You wouldn't defend attacks on schools or hospitals if you had such a high view of life.

No one is defending Hamas attacks. The only killers being defended here are the IDF.
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Actually, there would be no attacks on schools and hospitals if Hamas didn't launch rockets out of them, which is why I say, for the sake of Gazans and Israelis, Hamas needs to either lose all public support or be crushed.
 
I hope a United player makes a stance against this genocide
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Actually, there would be no attacks on schools and hospitals if Hamas didn't launch rockets out of them, which is why I say, for the sake of Gazans and Israelis, Hamas needs to either lose all public support or be crushed.
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Yes this conflict started just a few weeks ago because of Hamas.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Actually, there would be no attacks on schools and hospitals if Hamas didn't launch rockets out of them, which is why I say, for the sake of Gazans and Israelis, Hamas needs to either lose all public support or be crushed.
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If that happened, do you think Israel would stop treating Gaza like shit? I don't personally. And if they don't stop treating Gaza like shit, another Hamas will appear.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Actually, there would be no attacks on schools and hospitals if Hamas didn't launch rockets out of them, which is why I say, for the sake of Gazans and Israelis, Hamas needs to either lose all public support or be crushed.
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The attacks won't actually stop them. They're sadistic revenge which don't stop the rockets being fired at Israels shield. There's nothing defensible about murdering children.
 
Shamwow said:
If that happened, do you think Israel would stop treating Gaza like shit? I don't personally. And if they don't stop treating Gaza like shit, another Hamas will appear.
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Islamic jihad will exist for as long as people are faithful to the Islamic faith identified in the Qur'an and the Hadith literature. But we don't say the way to end the Islamic jihad is to all convert to Islam and abandon Judeo Christian and secular values. You are making the argument that Israel is to blame for the terrorists who want to destroy her. Not so. It is the same logic as saying a woman could deserve rape depending on the length of her skirt. Hamas are ideologically opposed to an Israeli state and they've demonstrated just how motivated they are at every opportunity. They don't stop building tunnels or launching missiles because peace is not the objective for them.
 
Israel will not rest until they have completed their genocide of Palestine - regardless of who the ruling parties are.

Obama could become President of Palestine tomorrow, and commit to peace, and Israel would still continue its land grabbing for example. It's not on, it's illegal, and it's about time the UN, or at the very least, surrounding Arab nations, grew a backbone and stood up to the motherfeckers that run Israel
 
Silva said:
You wouldn't defend attacks on schools or hospitals if you had such a high view of life.

No one is defending Hamas attacks. The only killers being defended here are the IDF.
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Exactly, this is not about Hamas or rockets, it's about how high you regard human life.

And as Shamrow also points out, Israel are creating even more hatred and inevitable suffering for future generations. In fact it's difficult to see how in the long term Israel will survive because the hatred amongst the Arabs must now surely be beyond the point of return as many intellectual Jews outside Israel have long pointed out anyway; many of these intellectuals consider Israel as fools. The failed Israeli state they call it.
 
Tibs said:
Israel will not rest until they have completed their genocide of Palestine - regardless of who the ruling parties are.

Obama could become President of Palestine tomorrow, and commit to peace, and Israel would still continue its land grabbing for example. It's not on, it's illegal, and it's about time the UN, or at the very least, surrounding Arab nations, grew a backbone and stood up to the motherfeckers that run Israel
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That must be the slowest and most incompetent genocide in history given Israel's resources.
 
Silva said:
You can't cry antisemitism and come out with this shit.
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Oh give over. Islam is not a race, it's a religion and since I understand the life of the prophet, having done my reading, I am allowed to dislike it and express my concern. I have long grown used to people mocking my own religion (I am a Christian).

The problem is Islam, not all Muslims. As a human being, I have the same compassion for a Muslim in Saudi Arabia as I do for a Christian in the west.
 
Rams said:
Exactly, this is not about Hamas or rockets, it's about how high you regard human life.

And as Shamrow also points out, Israel are creating even more hatred and inevitable suffering for future generations. In fact it's difficult to see how in the long term Israel will survive because the hatred amongst the Arabs must now surely be beyond the point of return as many intellectual Jews outside Israel have long pointed out anyway; many of these intellectuals consider Israel as fools. The failed Israeli state they call it.
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Why would there be a hatred amongst all the Arabs? Israel are bombing Palestine, not Egypt etc. I don't think it's right to turn this into an Arab vs Jew thing which is what I inferred from your post.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Islamic jihad will exist for as long as people are faithful to the Islamic faith identified in the Qur'an and the Hadith literature. But we don't say the way to end the Islamic jihad is to all convert to Islam and abandon Judeo Christian and secular values. You are making the argument that Israel is to blame for the terrorists who want to destroy her. Not so. It is the same logic as saying a woman could deserve rape depending on the length of her skirt. Hamas are ideologically opposed to an Israeli state and they've demonstrated just how motivated they are at every opportunity. They don't stop building tunnels or launching missiles because peace is not the objective for them.
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Remind me when, how and why Hamas were formed and how all of that fits into what you just said.
 
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