The same can be said of Hamas, who are using their own citizens, including kids, as bait for Israeli air strikes in order to gain international sympathy to advance their policy objectives.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
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The same can be said of Hamas, who are using their own citizens, including kids, as bait for Israeli air strikes in order to gain international sympathy to advance their policy objectives.
Hamas does give a shit about it's people, its there mums, brothers, sisters and children being killed, but they fight because people can not be put in a cage forever
Well at least you're not denying it.
His post doesn't really make any sense, which is why I called it irrational. According to the logic of that post, Israel only asks people to evacuate for pr reasons, but they don't care how many Gazan civilians they actually kill. It would logically follow that it would be more beneficial for Israeli pr reasons for fewer civilians to die in the bombings.
Heated online discussions rarely produce reasoned conversation.
It is hard to have a rational discussion about something that draws such emotions out of people.
Collectively punishing? Who does Hamas represent?
If Hamas cares about the people of Gaza, then why do they launch missiles out of schools and hospitals knowing inevitable Israeli retaliation will kill many innocents? If Israel is going to fight Hamas, how do they do it without "collectively punishing the people of Gaza"?
If you care about the innocents killed in these bombings, why aren't you at least as opposed to Hamas as you are to Israel? Or is your hatred of Israel stronger than your compassion for the people of Gaza?
It's better for Israel is fewer civilians die, but the leaflets are not going to achive that, they are there soley for PR purposes, where exactly are the people of Gaza supposed to evacuate to when they allready live in one of the most densely populated areas on earth? The purpose of the leaflets is so Israel can say we warned them, not becuase it's realisticly going to save many lives
There have been thousands of rockets from Gaza over the years, if there were suuch an epidemic of firing from Schools and Hospitals then there should be thousands of images from Israel of Hamas doing so, there isn't becuase it rarely happens.
Hamas is not the problem here, Fatah have given up fighting Israel and what have they had in return? The West Bank is being colonised, there is no peace deal, no negotiations. Thats why I'm not angry at Hamas, it Israel that doesn't want peace
Ah, OK, so because Hamas have fired off so many thousands of missiles from places which are not hospitals and schools, it justifies the instances when they do fire them from hospitals and schools.
Fair play to Jon Snow for standing up and making his voice heard about the crimes being committed by the Israeli Nazis
Given the history of the Jewish people, I find this little epithet absolutely disgusting.
Ah, OK, so because Hamas have fired off so many thousands of missiles from places which are not hospitals and schools, it justifies the instances when they do fire them from hospitals and schools.
You only mentioned schools and hospitals as if thats the only place they are fired from
I didn't see any missle lauchers near those kids on the beach
It's fitting
What's disgusting is the genocide being inflicted on the Gazans, and that the world powers are content with it
There's no need for the nazi comment mate.
Ah the old let's compare the Israelis to Nazis jibe - I find that "analogy" abhorrent.
Its fairly convenient though, when one wants to enter a discussion with a splash but doesn't have time to explore the complexities of the situation.
Do you think Israel could not wipe out the entire Gaza strip if they really wanted a genocide?
In fairness, it's a feature of modern day to equate anything "horrific" done by a group or individual to the Nazis. Obama gets compared to Hitler quite frequently by the fringes right in the US which is quite abhorrent in itself given the way blacks were treated by the Nazis.
Sadly it is Raoul, it's the generic stance that most rabid anti-semites adopt when discussing Israel when they have no knowledge of the subject.
Physically yeah of course they could. Though I imagine even the US though would baulk if Israel went across and systematically wiped out the entire Gaza strip.
I'm struggling to find examples of the Luftwaffe dropping leaflets on populations to preserve their lives before bombing them.
No I am quite sure Hamas fire missiles from more than just schools and hospitals.
I am sure Hamas really should be applauded for not firing them from the beach too. You're right, Mozza. They do well to refrain from firing missiles from schools and hospitals most of the time. The loveable little rascals.
I don't see any Israeli concentration camps or gas chambers either....
This is why the Nazi - Israeli comparison is only designed to offend and doesn't have any basis in most people's realities.
Probably one of the biggest insults you can level at any Israeli (who probably has living Holocaust survivors in their families).
Given the Hamas indoctrination videos and the way Palestinian TV is, I'd say the Nazi comparisons sit better with them, given the things shown on their televisions as well as the Goebbels style cartoons and text books in Palestinian schools.
The Israelis are really dropping leaflets that say: HA HA!
Mozza if you feel so strongly and get so emotional about the people of Gaza you should go over there and help Hamas
It worked well for Vittorio Arrigoni...
No one is justifying the rockets being fired at Israel, regardless of where they're being from. But Israel's reaction to said rockets is despicable and makes Hammas actions look comparatively harmless.Ah, OK, so because Hamas have fired off so many thousands of missiles from places which are not hospitals and schools, it justifies the instances when they do fire them from hospitals and schools.
So what would you rather them do? Dance and throw flowers at the people firing the rockets?
I'm not comfortable with the Nazi parallels but I'll offer a devil advocate's response to this.
No nation or power on earth today would get away with genocide on the scale the Nazis orchestrated. The scrutiny and repercussions you'd imagine would be grimly severe. So we don't know how a nation would deal with a 'problem' if the chains were unshackled and trans-national eyes were no longer scrutinising them.
Nowadays there's two fronts to war - the attritional and strategic battle, and the PR battle.
I don't know. But slaughtering entire families isn't an appropriate response.
Its obviously still been possible more recently in Cambodia, Rwanda, and Sudan.
Agreed but Egypt are just as culpable in the sense that they aren't letting people out of their portion of the Gaza Strip.
The problem Israel has if it opens the borders up to let people out is that cowards will hide amongst genuine refugees and perform acts of terror. It's been done many times before so there is a good chance it could happen again.
The wanton slaughter has to stop I agree but no matter what Israel does in this situation they stand to lose really.
Genocides have been attempted and happened since the Nazi's. Burma is currently instigating one. The numbers might not be as big as the Nazi death toll, but people are still suffering the same kind of evils.
These conflicts unfortunately seldom garner interest or outrage, and I'd even wager most people on earth aren't even aware of the atrocities committed there.
You couldn't say the same for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Israelis are already attracting vehement opposition to their operations, imagine what would happen of they were to go full on genocide.
@Silva Answers your point too I hope.
Mozza if you feel so strongly and get so emotional about the people of Gaza you should go over there and help Hamas
It worked well for Vittorio Arrigoni...
I might end up like Rachel Corrie, Ian Hook, Tom Hurndall or James Miller
Earlier today...
The interviewer is disgustingly condescending. Taking what Israel says as facts and presenting it through her questions to the Palestinian. The Israeli propaganda has been strongly rooted in all these idiots.
The world doesn't see the two people as equal. Racially.
Whereas the generic pro-Israel stance to invoke the anti-semitism card whenever possible is funky, fun and fresh.
I might as well imply that anyone who thinks Israel's consistent bombing of poor children is justified because Hamas are deigning to trouble their shields, probably has some pretty nasty views on arabs. Because it's tantamount to the same thing.
If anything I'd say the fear of being labelled as such in the western world is the largest thing protecting Israel from even greater international condemnation. It's become a cachet. Eventually it's gonna run out.
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In the current instance it follows explicit instructions from the Hamas Interior Ministry:
"Avoid entering into a political argument with a Westerner aimed at convincing him that the Holocaust is a lie and deceit; instead, equate it with Israel's crimes against Palestinian civilians."
...and allowing the enemy to seek shelter during the bombing. Hamas Has any army ever done that before?
Sudan? Congo? Not as efficient as the Germans, but noone gives a feck.