and Harris keeps giving Netanyahu bombs to kill more Palestinian like she did the previous 15 months would be better because?Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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and Harris keeps giving Netanyahu bombs to kill more Palestinian like she did the previous 15 months would be better because?It's only one Biden supporter who is doing this.
Going by Trump's statements that there are 1.6-1.7 million people currently in Gaza, that 3% figure is big underestimate.
The pro Palestine (non) voters was put in a very strange place by the Democrats.
They are not important enough to be listened to. Any support for Palestinian plight and voices was either shut down or just never even given the space to show it.
But when shit hits the fan, they are somehow more responsible than Harris for losing the election.
Please make it make sense
They are not important enough to be listened to. Any support for Palestinian plight and voices was either shut down or just never even given the space to show it.
But when shit hits the fan, they are somehow more responsible than Harris for losing the election.
Please make it make sense
it's so strange to see you all argue over who is worse for Palestinians during maybe the worst, or one of the worst, humanitarian crisis and genocide of the 21st century, instead of focusing on the people themselves.
isn't the simple answer that the US is a piece of shit superpower that has never had anything other than their own self-interest at hand and we need to all stop being so reliant on them regardless of who is in charge? Or am I gone mad?
isn't the simple answer that the US is a piece of shit superpower that has never had anything other than their own self-interest at hand and we need to all stop being so reliant on them regardless of who is in charge? Or am I gone mad?
Harris? You mean the Biden administration?
And even if true (which it isn't) Trump is proposing ethnic cleansing using the US military if necessary. Harris would have been (possibly marginally) better than Biden. Trump is hugely worse.
Obviously.
Nope that's how I see it too. Genocide is Genocide and there is very little difference between Biden, Harris or Trump as far as Palestine and the continued suffering of the poor Palestinians is concerned. Arguing petty semantics to.point score on a forum is fecking boring and it's also fecking exhausting to continually see it derailing the thread and taking up pages and pages at a time.
No, I mean if she become the President, she will continue what Biden did (and she obviously approved by his side) for 15 months, i.e: sending bombs for genocide.
There are no concrete hint whatsoever from Harris as VP that she will do any thing different from Biden.
It makes sense because even though both ideas are contradictory, they fulfill the same role which is to "put the lessers in their place."
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People on both sides of this argument need to make up their mind. Was Gaza a decisive issue or not?
Kamala Harris Paid the Price for Not Breaking With Biden on Gaza, New Poll Shows
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
I can't help it if you can't see that Harris would be shit for Palestinians, Biden worse and Trump utterly catastrophic. Why such distinction is so painful to many of you, that you need to lurch to such denial is outright bizarre.
Which is why you and other similar posters are utterly delusional. Neither of us have suggested any such thing.
There's no denial other than your side's.
Everybody knows what Trump is and what a catastrophe he represents for any sane human being and I personally have zero sympathy for the ones who don't.
However and that's where you branch out, the Dems alternative in the region is just as abject as he is on this very particular matter. Once again, the only difference is the package. You may fight against this premise all you want, but everything that happened in Palestine since 1948 will slap you in the face with all its might if you ever made a real effort to look into it. The US has been a cancer for the region for more than seventy decades. Trump is just another, more virulent variant of the same kind of metastasis Biden and Harris stem from, and that it is something that just doesn't compute with your brain.
You're desperately just trying to harp on of a semblance of a moral high ground which has been disintegrated decades ago. You have nothing, absolutely nothing to stand on.
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Hi, I was basing it on that one article not being equivalent - there might be other evidence, and that's not something I'd like to dispute. Briefly on the article: The article is hearsay - I'm not disputing the source. Still, it's a colleague and a nameless USAID official asking about feasibility versus the President saying it to the national media. I inferred from the article that this was an Israeli intelligence agency proposal, not to excuse USAID. Still, there are (at least in other areas of policy-making) lots of times when someone is presented with a batshit crazy solution, but for various reasons, you don't just dismiss it out of hand, even if all you do is go to an expert and say 'x has said this, it doesn't make sense to me, but is this feasible?' There might be a lot wrong with prioritising relationship management, but again, I don't see the equivalence with the President stating, 'We will do this'. I wouldn't have expected something like this to sit with USAID officials if being taken seriously (I can see you have clarified that further by saying Blinken approached other countries, but I'm not arguing against an overall point; I was commenting on the article itself not being equivalent. Time is also an important factor in me not seeing it as strong evidence of a Biden/Trump equivalency on taking over the Gaza Strip. The article was from 2023, and if taken in itself, there didn't seem to be any push in 2024 to permanently relocate Gazans.
It's not something where I am arguing against an overall point, and you did go on to mention Blinken, etc; my comment was much more self-contained about that specific article, and I hope I have given my reasoning for my previous post. It wasn't meant to be rude or dismissive of any overall point, and sorry if it came across that way.
What are you on about? This is purely about posters trying to bully pro-Palestinian posters like Gaffs, for daring to point out that advocating for not voting for Harris was a terrible idea based on Biden's record, despite Trump being obviously worse for Palestinians than both by some distance.
No, it's not.
It's about killing the idea you, gaffs and others are trying to push (some out of lack of knowledge, others for ideological reasons) that Harris would've been in any shape or form more beneficial to the Palestinians. By that, I mean the US suddenly finding a conscience and using its military and financial might to reign in Israel to truly lead to a two-state solution.
For the last time, Dems=GOP about Palestine. They're as horrendous as each other and have never, ever wished for a Palestinian state. One side is just more open about it than the other.
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They really aren't as horrendous as each other and nobody suggested either were actively pro-Palestinian. Obviously.
But there are degrees of things and anyone who thinks Harris would be worse than Trump is delusional.
I don’t think anyone is denying that the Dems would be awful for Palestine. But there is a difference between saying Harris and Trump would be identically bad for Palestinians, vs Harris may have been ever so slightly marginally better for Palestinians.
For me, that’s quite obviously the case. As is seemingly playing out now. That doesn’t mean Harris would have been great for Palestinians. But to equate them is also a bizarre standpoint.
In other words, the Harris / Trump views on Palestine should have had 0 impact on voters. Voters who decided not to vote Harris even if she was better for them over Palestine made a stupid mistake. Voters who did vote Harris because she’d be better than Trump made a stupid mistake. Etc.
If the eventual result is the only thing that matters, then death and heat death of the universe is unavoidable anyway.
From my interactions, people that have lived around warzones and cleansings never really had "it's all the same anyway, so they might as well go all out" attitudes.
Coping mechanism.
This is not directed at you, but in general to people who argue this.
If I was american, I would have not voted for harris. No because she would be better or worse or slightly better or less worse, but because I can not, in good conscience, vote for a party/person who have been responsible for a genocide.
The post election is now analyzed from the perspective of the future, but one can't simply ignore the past. The administration harris was a part of was responsible for genocide, how that seems to be discarded so easily and people who refused to support that labeled as idiots is frankly mind blowing.
Exactly. People in this thread, for some reason, don't want to accept that.
Had Trump been in office on Oct 7 2023, the body count in Gaza would have been even greater. If Israel did conduct themselves with "some" restraint, there would have been zero had Trump been in office.
I think it's a bit of a strawman as pretty much no one suggests Harris lost because of "pro Palestine voters". But we can definitely point out and laugh at hypocrisy of the supposed "Palestine-first" voters that directly supported/enabled Trump, because they played some role in his accession to the throne. I just hope they enjoy the change they brought and wanted to see and that they don't backtrack now on their proud statements "it can't be worse". Just take the responsibility for your actions and decisions, if you voted Trump enjoy your president's actions, rather than whine "oh but nobody listened to us, we genuinely thought it couldn't be worse".
Also, if genocide Joe was equally as bad on Palestine as Trump, and there's no difference whatsoever, how come you say "shit hits the fan" only just now? There's no shit hitting the fan if the situation was already as bad as it gets before Trump got there, right?
What's very funny, too, is when I repeatedly read "ok but Trump is no different than Biden on Palestine" from the people who enabled Trump by not voting Dems / voting Trump. If you're a single issue voter and believe both candidates are identical on said issue and you still vote for Trump, again - take the fecking responsibility for your actions and for everything that your president does, rather than pull stuff like "I was desperate so I voted for a guy who I knew would not be better on my most important issue and I didn't give a single feck about any other Trump policy and its consequences on millions of people, because all I care about is Gaza - that's still going to get razed". It's just so intellectually lazy and ridiculous the high horse of supposedly pro-Palestinian anti-Democratic gang who try to position themselves as defenders of humanity and morality while conveniently ignoring everything they don't like.
Where is the lie?
So in order too keep you conscience in a good state and keep the moods high you'd refuse to participate in democracy and not choose the lesser evil at all, would you go for a third-party as an excuse to your conscience or you would directly vote Trump?
Appreciated and i wont be holding my breath for that apology.
Why do people think that ethnic cleansing hasn't already happened? Look at Jabalia camp for just one example and say that area hasn't been ethnically cleansed. The same happened in other places, but I'm picking Jabalia in particular because of how extra brutal the destruction was and that the siege on it and the rest of northern Gaza started a month before the elections to the ceasefire announcement.
The only thing we got from the Biden admin was a strongly worded letter to let them do whatever they wanted for at least 30 days.
The only thing we got from the Biden admin was a strongly worded letter to let them do whatever they wanted for at least 30 days.
Exactly what it is that Harris would have done to qualify her as slightly marginally better for Palestinians? It's an interesting statement but I fail to see what substance anyone could offer behind it.
One of many examples could be the USAID - it has given over 2 billion USD in humanitarian assistance to Gaza since 7th October 2023, Trump is shutting it down. Do you think this humanitarian aid would make at least a marginal difference, or you believe it doesn't matter at all?
if he actually tries who will stop him from doing that? Congress? The UN? Surely it cannot go there.
this is very long but is their version of why:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/on-the-record-with-hamas
Drop Site conducted a series of interviews with senior Hamas officials alongside a comprehensive review of its statements and those of its leaders. I interviewed a variety of Hamas sources on background for this story and two—Basem Naim and Ghazi Hamad—agreed to speak on the record. I also spoke to a range of knowledgeable Palestinians, Israelis, and international sources in an effort to understand the tactical and political aims of the October 7 attacks.
i've been posting about biden, trump, and most of all, israelis and palestinians, in this thread about israel and palestine, and was asked why i focus so much on israelis. read that back and tell me if it makes sense.
also your 3rd line is quite interesting in light of the fact that biden was president for the 15 months this slaughter lasted.
500 bodies have been retrieved since the ceasefire, and that's while they don't have anywhere near the full means for getting to all the dead under the rubble.
2 billion in USAID that they couldn't make Israel let through against what is it something around 25 billion USD in military aid and a lot more in arms sales on top. The latter certainly made the former of no significance yes. It's undeniable that the military aid and US ammunitions were used to destroy infrastructure and hospitals, if the USAID funding was used for a couple of field hospitals then great but they created the need.
I'll criticise Trumps actions as they happen but for Harris and Biden they can only be judged on what did happen. I don't recall any promises from Harris that she'd U-turn on the US policy of fully backing Israel.
You frame it as "refuse to participate in democracy", I would frame it as "refuse to vote for genocidal criminals".
That's just a bit lazy answer, isn't it? You asked for an example of a marginal difference between X and Y. I tell you - 2 billion in humanitarian aid given by X, 0 by Y. You counter that by saying it's doesn't matter at all because X also gave 25 billion in military aid to Israel, while ignoring that Y will still gave the same (if not higher) amount of military aid to Israel.
So yeah, it might not impress you, but if both candidates support Israel, one of them commits billions to 'a couple of field hospitals' and the other doesn't, I believe it constitutes the "marginal difference" you asked about. Ask people in Gaza and humanitarian agencies if cutting the USAID help for Palestine is completely meaningless, as you seem to suggest.
yeah we really need to distinguish the difference between the literal meaning of democracy and whatever it is that we've got, which is bloody miles off