Judge Jeanine: Trump Fulfilling End Times Prophecy!
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Hmm. Rejoice! Celebrate your independence when you were thrown out of your homes, off your land, evicted. 700,000 lost their land. Meanwhile the Israeli Government will allow you to make your new homes with the building supplies they ration out, use the water and electricity they eke out and btw you can cross your land if and when they tell you.
Perhaps that's the sort of Independence The Chairman likes.
Another example of Redcafe dementia. No mention of the 1948 Arab invasion that CAUSED the refugee crisis, No mention of 800,000 Arab Jews ethnically cleansed form Yemen, Iraq.
From there horses mouth:
I thought we were talking about Palestine.
Yes, some of us are talking about Palestine. But I suggest you heed your own advice rather than mocking my posts, maybe then you can post about Palestine too.
We are. As well as the Arab armies attacking Israel from all sides (including within) causing (and instructing) 800,000 Palestine Arabs to flee, 800,000 Arab Jews were booted out from their Arab countries.
So instead of the Arabs accepting the partition, they chose this:
So, you know that what was previously the Gaza Strip was Egypt and that the 'refugees' were left stateless following the war?
You seem to be saying that the Israelis had nothing to do with the Palestinians fleeing?We are. As well as the Arab armies attacking Israel from all sides (including within) causing (and instructing) 800,000 Palestine Arabs to flee, 800,000 Arab Jews were booted out from their Arab countries.
So instead of the Arabs accepting the partition, they chose this:
Whatever way you want to cut it we were discussing the Independence Celebrations that the Palestinians were meant to be having and so far we've had no response as to what level of 'Independence' they actually enjoy.
Thanks.
Because you're committing the cardinal sin of obscuring how this mess began and what it's intentions were (are). The last thing the Arab powers wanted was a Palestinian State - thats why even the Palestinians themselves didn't call for an independent state until 1964.
I don't think you can show where I've attempted to obscure anything, I've only stated facts.
Now the original comment stated that - to the effect - that Palestinians should get on with enjoying their Independence - was it 'Celebrate' it?
What level of Independence do they currently enjoy?
Perhaps the person who made that comment might notice that however this all started the Israelis bought snipers to a rockfight and that whatever Independence they'd like to think Palestinians enjoy despite the arrangements made in 1948 there still seems to be an issue.
And that issue is Israel's existence. Same as it ever was.
I see. Yet there's another issue in that 58 Palestinians are dead, hundreds wounded and a sore Israeli shoulder.
And still no answer on what level of Independence the Palestinians enjoy.
It's just an issue over Israels existence.
Depends how you define independence. Jordan (80% of original Palestine, 80% Palestinian demographic) is independent. Gaza/WB is controlled by Hamas, the PA etc.
It must be easy that your moral compass allows you to excuse the killings of innocent children and women by blaming it on events that happened 50/60 years ago and hamas.
I wonder what it would actually take for the US to withdraw its support for Israel? I mean if it was any other state Trump would be picking a fight
Not so. The Territory is still considered occupied by the UN, Israel reserves the right to enter Gaza with it's military, controls 6 of 7 land crossings and maintains a buffer zone within the territory amongst quite a few other things.
And we haven't even got around to mentioning the West Bank yet.
Leave out the personal attacks - I'm just stating the sad reality of why we are still discussing this, and why innocents are truly suffering.
Yet you seem to either be unaware of the facts or obscuring them.
Jordan isn't occupied. And the West Bank (which was illegally held by Jordan in 48) and Gaza (ditto Egypt) aren't technically occupied as they aren't even sovereign. Of course, you can bring in the UN all you want, but be prepared on what UN242 actually states.
Nope, you are justifying the murder of innocents. Nothing more. The sad reality is that one sore Israeli shoulder resulted in 50 dead people and you think it's all okay cos hamas.
Israel can literally invade Palestine tomorrow and kill everyone under one and you will be defending it by blaming it on 1948 or hamas. It's disgusting.
A couple of factors:
- Severely curtailing lobbying power in the states, or genuinely draining the swamp of ‘politicians for rent’.
- Economic sanctions/boycotts/trade embargos targeting the United States.
- Public opinion in the US towards Israel becomes largely unfavourable.
I never said it was OK. Of course it's a horrible situation.
Dear Mark Regev,
The reason they rejected the partition plan was because they had been assured by the British for decades that their country would not be divided, even as the Zionists blocked any moves to form a representative government. When the division came, 55% of the land was granted to a minority of recently arrived European immigrants, at the time comprising only one-third of the population and owning less than 7% of the land.
You may be better asking yourself why Israel continues to reject a yet more favourable partition (78%-22%), supported overwhelmingly by the international community for 40-odd years, in favour of continued occupation, settlement building, home demolitions, mass incarcerations, massacres, enormous open-air prisons and grave human rights abuses and war crimes.
What on Earth are you talking about? So now according to you what the UN says now doesn't matter unless its something that suits you that was said in 1968.
I think that's what you mean is it?
Playing historical musical chairs and blaming Arabs and the Palestinians for not accepting an independent state in 1947 this all came about due to colonisers with their agendas with the treatment of Jews in various European countries. The Palestinians did not even have a say in the matter. They were nomads and mostly governed by sell outs from various Arab countries.
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I would just like to point out to everybody here, that Fearless posted this same video in the Middle East thread a while back as some kind of evidence that Palestinians were not ethnically cleansed in 1948. What Abbas actually says is that they fled in fear of getting massacred by the zionists. This was all pointed out back in December to Fearless with no rebuttal forthcoming. Yet he posts it again.
David Ben Gurion (1937): "Does the establishment of a Jewish state [in only part of Palestine] advance or retard the conversion of this country into a Jewish country? My assumption (which is why I am a fervent proponent of a state, even though it is now linked to partition) is that a Jewish state on only part of the land is not the end but the beginning.... This is because this increase in possession is of consequence not only in itself, but because through it we increase our strength, and every increase in strength helps in the possession of the land as a whole. The establishment of a state, even if only on a portion of the land, is the maximal reinforcement of our strength at the present time and a powerful boost to our historical endeavors to liberate the entire country".
It seems that the Palestinian leadership knew their adversary extremely well.
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This exchange:
How is your first post meant to be understood? It seems to be making light of an atrocity, and offering a partial defence of the attack. GB offers a different perspective, having lived through a situation which has some pertinent similarities. And then you go on to offer another partial defence of the attack, by bringing terrorism into it. I was just pointing out that GB's first post, which offered a position you agreed with, invalidated such an argument. The fact that terrorists were involved cannot be even a partial justification for the dynamics to be "interpreted" in such a way. Or at least we shouldn't tolerate such a suggestion.
You're among the most active commenters in this thread, and yet haven't found the time to condemn such an atrocity. And your perspective is perfectly captured in that first post. I agree with Sultan. Such a position is shameful. It is intelligent men of high social status like yourself taking such a position, at such a large scale, which contributes to the continuation of atrocities such as this throughout history.
You believe the Western media are biased against Israel?
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You have been defending it in this thread, forgive me for not thinking that you are okay with it.
Where have you stated that the attack wasn't okay or an overreaction?
Perhaps this will explain it better. All I ask is for you to see this through the prism of pan-Arab attacks ...not Zionists doing a Burma.
Wouldn't really raise Benny Morris as an impartial beacon of objectivity regarding this conflict.
Did you even watch it? He talks about 50,000 Palestinians being forced to flee. Hardly impartial.
Is there any news from today's protests?
I know about Benny Morris. Read part of his book actually. He's a bit of a WUM if you ask me.
Everyone researching and writing on this topic brings their own partiality to the conclusions they draw. For many if not most of them, this is accompanied by a process of leaving out inconvenient details which complicate their argument. Morris is better than most at making sure to omit nothing that might draw the reader to a different conclusion from his own, which is the most you can ask of a historian IMP.
Clashes in the West Bank and in Ramallah.
Fair enough, but not everyone agrees that Morris writes down the unequivocal truth.
He has critics at both ends of the spectrum though, which I guess is a good sign.
Of course, he ultimately has to be judged on how well the conclusions he reaches reflect the vast amount of detail he puts out. There is a legitimate debate to be had about him in that regard. There's still nobody else who comes close to him on the subject of 1948 though.
For what it's worth, I still think Peel Commission Report of 1937 is the most valuable work for understanding the dynamics driving the conflict, or at least the best starting point.
(edit): here it is - https://palestinianmandate.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/cm-5479.pdf
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