Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Bibi and the crazies are even sabotaging their own country at this point -

There's been a sharp decline in GDP already due to hundreds of thousands of reservists being called up to active service, if they actually want to drag this out to 2025 then their economy is going to take a nasty turn when it goes to 'peace time'.

Everything they're doing right now is just irrational on every level, and it's becoming clear that everything is now motivated less by rationality but entirely by ideological dogma.

And what? guess who will bail them out? what are some extra billions? US already pitched in 14 bn extra
 
It is horrible. Sufferings of other people. Stories told by people, children, etc, who have had horrible experiences, are heartbreaking. Will bring tears to your eyes. It is important to know what happens in a war. In Gaza and to the Palestinians. The cost of this war and the suffering it brings will be too much, as in all wars.

But, to judge who is in the “right”, intentions matter. What you do in the now will inform everyone watching on what you will likely do in the future. Hamas has shown, and told us, what their intentions are. They don’t care about life. Their own, their people, and least of all the Israelis. They want to kill as many Israelis as they can. They will do October 7, again, and again, and again, till there are no more Israel. This is their expressed intention, backed up by action and by using their own children as human shields.

Israel, for all its faults, do not seek to destroy the Palestinians. They do more than anyone before them in war, to spare the lives of noncombatants. Their intentions are clear. They seek to defend themselves against Hamas and other entities who try to kill them. If Hamas stopped, laid down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel did the same, there would be a bloodbath.

Horrible things will happen in a war. Hopefully those who have committed crimes will be held accountable in the end.

Sorry but that's bullshit and you know it.
 


It's an interesting thread about semantic and he could be correct but there is one small issue, he says that the word takala doesn't mean mistake when hebrew dictionaries have mistake or "it's a mistake" as a secondary acception. Now the primary acception does match with what he wrote which is disturbance in normal operation, disruption or defect.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...rridor-rafah-gaza-control-palestine-war-hamas


Israel is in effective control of Gaza’s entire land border after taking control of a buffer zone along the border with Egypt, Israel’s military has said, a move that risks complicating its relationship with Egypt.

White House national security spokesperson John Kirby said seizure of the Philadelphi Corridor would be consistent with the “limited” ground operation Israeli officials briefed President Joe Biden’s team on for the city of Rafah.

...

Israel and the US are clear #1 and #2, but Egypt easily is ahead of all other Israel supporters and weapons donors at a sole #3 for the way they've handled their border since October.
 
Some of the Apartheid methods used in the occupied West Bank are now constantly being implemented inside Israel…

 
Some of the Apartheid methods used in the occupied West Bank are now constantly being implemented inside Israel…


What is this?! Arrest her for that?!

And then, tie her hands? Cover her eyes? What?! And on top of that also asking her to hold her backpack?!! You can’t do that to anyone. This is just terrible. The disrespect of Arab lives in Israel is sickening.
 
Haviv Rettig Gur is an absolute gem.

He is able to provide so valuable insight. It is always great to listen to him. Learn from him. Israeli perspective, Hamas perspective, Palestinian perspective, West perspective... he can get to the crux of the matter. I have yet to see a better analyst. Enjoy.

 
That bloke seems to be the pinnacle of impartiality on twitter and given you're the one posting the link, I think I'll just ignore it.
 
Some of the Apartheid methods used in the occupied West Bank are now constantly being implemented inside Israel…


Yeah no apartheid going on here, all citizens are equal.
 
Haviv Rettig Gur is an absolute gem.

He is able to provide so valuable insight. It is always great to listen to him. Learn from him. Israeli perspective, Hamas perspective, Palestinian perspective, West perspective... he can get to the crux of the matter. I have yet to see a better analyst. Enjoy.



I have read a few pieces from him, sorry but he is a pure Israeli propaganda machine. Often just parroting the Israeli government statements without any investigation whatsoever.
 

Just a few posts up we had that guy going on about how IOF go out of their way to protect civilians :lol:. This is the type of scene you see in post apocalyptical movies. Not just buildings they've been razing the natural environment too.
 
Haviv Rettig Gur is an absolute gem.

He is able to provide so valuable insight. It is always great to listen to him. Learn from him. Israeli perspective, Hamas perspective, Palestinian perspective, West perspective... he can get to the crux of the matter. I have yet to see a better analyst. Enjoy.


You're back!

Any chance you could respond to the five times I tagged you about the same thing that you've ignored up til now?
 
GO07dd5XAAAw6Ml
 


What's most horrific is the complete lack of scorch marks,

Which means this was not tactical level fires conducted from the ground, or even artillery/tank/mortar fire.

All of this was from airburst JDAM's or GBU's.

IDF flattened this place entirely from the sky.
 
Haviv Rettig Gur is an absolute gem.

He is able to provide so valuable insight. It is always great to listen to him. Learn from him. Israeli perspective, Hamas perspective, Palestinian perspective, West perspective... he can get to the crux of the matter. I have yet to see a better analyst. Enjoy.
No thanks.

The guy is an Israel shill with very... particular views on the matter. No wonder you recommended him.
 
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What's most horrific is the complete lack of scorch marks,

Which means this was not tactical level fires conducted from the ground, or even artillery/tank/mortar fire.

All of this was from airburst JDAM's or GBU's.

IDF flattened this place entirely from the sky.

I truly don't understand how any observer can conclude that Israel's goal is anything short of complete annihilation. This is what you do to ensure a territory becomes unlivable.
 
Haviv Rettig Gur is an absolute gem.

He is able to provide so valuable insight. It is always great to listen to him. Learn from him. Israeli perspective, Hamas perspective, Palestinian perspective, West perspective... he can get to the crux of the matter. I have yet to see a better analyst. Enjoy.




You want people to waste 1.5 hours on genocide apologism propaganda? :lol:
 
Israeli journalist describes threats over reporting on spy chief and ICC
Haaretz journalist was warned of ‘consequences’ if he reported on attempts by Mossad chief to intimidate ex-prosecutor
https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...-icc-israeli-newspaper-says?CMP=share_btn_url

This is really something. Israel's so-called democracy unravelling in real time.

Under "emergency regulations" that have been in place since Israel's founding, the military censor can fully or partially redact any news article dealing with "security issues". In 2023, the censor barred the publication of 613 articles and partially redacted 2703 more. Remarkable.
 
Israeli journalist describes threats over reporting on spy chief and ICC
Haaretz journalist was warned of ‘consequences’ if he reported on attempts by Mossad chief to intimidate ex-prosecutor
https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...-icc-israeli-newspaper-says?CMP=share_btn_url

This is really something. Israel's so-called democracy unravelling in real time.

Under "emergency regulations" that have been in place since Israel's founding, the military censor can fully or partially redact any news article dealing with "security issues". In 2023, the censor barred the publication of 613 articles and partially redacted 2703 more. Remarkable.

Have you looked at the UK's D-Notice system? We are hardly much better.
 
Israeli journalist describes threats over reporting on spy chief and ICC
Haaretz journalist was warned of ‘consequences’ if he reported on attempts by Mossad chief to intimidate ex-prosecutor
https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...-icc-israeli-newspaper-says?CMP=share_btn_url

This is really something. Israel's so-called democracy unravelling in real time.

Under "emergency regulations" that have been in place since Israel's founding, the military censor can fully or partially redact any news article dealing with "security issues". In 2023, the censor barred the publication of 613 articles and partially redacted 2703 more. Remarkable.
A gangster state.
 
Have you looked at the UK's D-Notice system? We are hardly much better.

But there isn't a constant propaganda pretending that the UK is some uniquely virtuous nation state.
 
Have you looked at the UK's D-Notice system? We are hardly much better.
From what I can see, D-notices are advisory. I'd say there is a huge difference. In the current case, this is just the Mossad desperately trying to cover its own ass.
 
The last eight years since Brexit may disagree with you.

Actually my point is not to absolve Israel here. Quite the opposite. The difference is one of scale rather than degree.
cough....Brexit....cough

I interpret Brexit as the UK overestimating their influence or the influence they should have more than being particularly virtuous.
 
How does this reconcile with all the "this war stops if Hamas releases the hostages" rhetoric from Israelis?

 
How does this reconcile with all the "this war stops if Hamas releases the hostages" rhetoric from Israelis?


It doesn't and it never has. That whole alleged stance was merely an excuse for Israel to justify its ongoing onslaught, pinning the burden of the blame on Hamas. Its the same reason they've been ramping up settler violence in the West Bank despite Hamas being a non-factor there. This 'war' was never about the hostages nor Hamas.
 
Atleast with Dresden there was strategic value in flattening the city....here..."Hamas fighters" um, yeah no.
Which one? Genuine question.

The bombing of Dresden in February 1945 is widely viewed as a revenge bombing that served no strategic purpose or any military interest, especially at a time where it was clear that Germany was all but defeated. It's one of the Allies darkest moments in WWII.

That's the IDF way. They just erase a whole block to get one guy who's probably there. There's many reports from Israeli soldiers that will tell you how disproportionate their use of artillery and airstrikes is. They don't go in the tunnels and instead exact revenge on the civilian population.

I truly don't understand how any observer can conclude that Israel's goal is anything short of complete annihilation. This is what you do to ensure a territory becomes unlivable.

- 5% (and counting) of the Gaza population are casualties.
- There's at least 79,000 housing units completely destroyed and 370,000 damaged, which effectively means that half of the population is homeless. Keep in mind that the housing build rate in Gaza was 992 units a year prior to 10/7. Even at a five-fold higher rate, it would take until 2040 to rebuild what was lost.
- Almost 90% of the schools have been either severely damaged or destroyed. 260 teachers have been killed by the IDF.
- Every single university in Gaza (12) has been destroyed. 95 professors and 5,400 students have been killed by the IDF.
- 31 hospitals out of 36 have been either destroyed or damaged. 345 doctors and nurses have been killed by the IDF.
- 195 heritage sites, 227 mosques and 3 churches have either been damaged or destroyed, including the Central Archives of Gaza, which catalogued 150 years of history.
- 190 administrative buildings have been destroyed by the IDF.
- 16 cemetaries have been either damaged or destroyed by the IDF.
- The damages caused by the IDF amount to $30 to 40 billions and we're talking about a 141 square miles territory.

The amount and scale of damage in Gaza has not been seen since WWII and effectively sent it back to the stone age, for those willing to stay. The UN talks of Scholasticide presenting "a systematic pattern of violence aimed at dismantling the very foundation of Palestinian society" . If this isn't a deliberate intent to destroy the Palestinians as a people, then I don't know what to tell you (obviously not directed at you). And I'm not even taking into account what's happening in the West Bank.

In short, to any present and future poster coming with a "But, but Israel is just defending itself and tries to minimize civilian casualties": Shame on you.
 
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