I agree with this also. They are mainly an advocacy group that exist to maintain favorable US public perception of Israel.
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I agree with this also. They are mainly an advocacy group that exist to maintain favorable US public perception of Israel.
Excellent take.
Is there no feeling of “yes, I know we might have identified with them in some way but what they’re doing is horrific”?
and/or “why are we funding this when we have lots of worthy causes ‘at home’”?
Genuinely curious as to how the general US public feels about this
The americans have been killing brown people for so long that most probably don't even see anything unusual about what israel is doing.
Pro-Israeli groups have been panicking because Israel has never faced this kind of backlash inside the US before. It's also why their propaganda has become more deranged with time.
My guess is the 100m figure is a reference to this:
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/aipac-israel-spending-democratic-primaries-00144552
From my experience they don't view it through the lens of morals or ideals, but through the prism of religious and cultural familiarity - ie., Israel is needed to fulfill the end of times prophecy (all nonsense of course). Right of center evangelicals in particular, have deeply bought into this, which means the entire Republican party (ostensibly 50% of the American political duopoly) have as well, as have a lot of Democrats.
As we've seen throughout the rise of Trump - framing issues through the lens of culture often allows the public to buy into them, even when facts say otherwise.
AIPAC is the only PAC in top 20 who its interest is the relation of USA with a foreign government.
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Thanks for the links and proving me wrong. Something was floating my head. 100 million is what they are planning to spend in contributions alone
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/aipac-israel-spending-democratic-primaries-00144552
In this article you can see that they already spend +40 millions this year.
You are right, not 100 millions yet.
In this article though, you can see that they even spend 4 millions in one sole candidate and also, as I mentioned, they were the top contributors to key politicians in US.
Israel doesn't dominate the world, but certainly, as other lobby groups, are influencing the US politics. This kind of foreign influence with so much ramifications as we can see in the Gazan genocide, would not be tolerated by China and Russia so openly cheered by AIPAC itself and would be called election inerference
AIPAC is an American organization, not Israeli.
I think AIPAC raises a lot of funds beyond its own budget through private donations.
So if it would be American Russian Public Affairs Committee (ARPAC) and would lobby for russian influence and doubling down because of Ukraine war, and boast in tweeter that they are funding politicians, everything would be fine, right? and would not raise an eyebrow because would be an american organization and not "foreign"
The entire lobbying system in America baffles me and I find it disturbing and corrupting at all levels. However within the parameters of that system there doesn’t seem to be anything to prevent a collection of concerned American citizens with pro-Russian sympathies from organizing and mobilizing exactly along the same lines that AIPAC has - except that such a collection of citizens likely doesn’t exist, and if they did they would still run up against the opposition of the Beltway think-tankers, who have historically perceived American and Russian interests to be diametrically opposed, and the wider historical antipathy of American society to Russia as a state and culture. These are not obstacles that exist in the case of pro-Israel activism, quite the opposite in fact.
Or to use another example - Trita Parsi, quoted above bemoaning AIPAC’s influence, is the founder of the National Iranian American Council, an organization deeply unpopular with anti-regime diaspora Iranians for its alleged ties to and lobbying on behalf of the Islamic Republic of Iran. It operates freely and legally within the same parameters as AIPAC, and, a few years of the Obama administration aside, has not and cannot come close to achieving the kind of success AIPAC can boast of (that I suspect Parsi is quite envious of), for reasons very similar to a hypothetical pro-Russian lobby.
I don't know about that, but the American Muslims/Arabs taking the risk of having the orange madman in the White House, seem to forget that 10/7 and the ongoing genocide in Gaza are partly a result of his mandate.
People forget Trump's decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem and the Abraham Accords lead by the repulsive, soulless ghoul named Kushner, isolated the Palestinians even more and were about to effectively officialize the death of a Palestinian State. Trump will be the undertaker of Ukraine and Palestine if he's re-elected.
Be careful of what you wish for.
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But it's not.
Refer to the link I sent of the values of the 2024 (so far) contributions, The top contributors are all lobbying groups representing a nation state. Liberia alone has throw in almost 200 million.
But as a registered PAC they have to be all documented. The budget solicitation system is just about the only transparent thing in the whole Lobbying revolving door that is DC.
Can you highlight the parts which suggest 40+ millions? I think i'm missing something but I only did skimread, my apologies.
I'd also be interested in understanding politico's sourcing and why they are not listed on open secrets.
The latter I agree with, but unfortunately it's already happening. CCTV America, which is a Chinese Lobbying Group furthering the interests of the CCP has, alongside other CCP lobbying groups, spent almost 50 million USD in 2023 alone.
Since 2016, no lobbying interest group has spent more than China, with a total of almost 400 million spent.
If it were up to me, AIPAC shouldn't exist and neither should all the other lobbyists paying for the interests of foreign governments but alas here we are. My point is just that AIPAC are nothing special.
I read several of your comments on the Israel lobbying and a comment that stand out for simplistic but completely true is that you said (paraphrasing) that you can't accuse Israel / jews to control american politics through AIPAC because they are just lobbying that any other group like for example irish. That is why I am very careful when I talk about the topic because you are 100%. And an example is the sentence of the quote you quoted me
But as you are right, that they don't dominate specifically much more than another group, it is true that they are influencing and calling AIPAC being american, being that is absolutely true, we can be as facetious to deny that is a foreign influence. And as you point out to reinforce my point, any money that comes from lobbying on behalf of a third country will be publicized as good money and another kind of money coming from a third country will be not publicized or even hidden as dangerous to be a traitor to US
There is AIPAC - publicized
There is Russian money on the shadows - not publicized
AIPAC money is increasing exponentially due to Gaza genoicide - AIPAC keep publicizing
Russian money is probably increasing due to Ukraine's war - Not publicized
Russian money is of course assumptions but it is hardly deniable for anyone
As much as Israel is an ally and Russia an historical foe, I don't think a foreign power should shape US policies and see how the US is helping fighting an invader (Russia) and in the other side Is helping fighting the invaded (Palestine).
The morals of the citizens should shape this policies if they would be well informed and how they would rather prefer to spend their taxes. Or not expenditure at all or if it a justified caused
And definitely what you said, any PAC/superPAC being AIPAC or another it ends corrupting the politicians
Is there a UK version of AIPAC?
There isn't really a equivalent in the sense of there being a central, uniform Lobbying PAC.
You've got organisations like the JLC who are more inclined towards forwarding interests of British Jews, which occasionally overlaps with issues surrounding Israel. And then you have parliamentary groups attached to both major parties (the conservative/labour friends of Israel) which a number of MPs are members of.
United Democracy Project is AIPCA's superPAC. And again, I misread it. they didn't spend 40 millions. is what they have to spend. Sorry for the confusion
CST
More reporting on this now - https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...nians-in-charge-of-gaza-aid-2da63078?mod=e2tw
(edit): Times of Israel summary of the pay-walled WSJ report -https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...aid-before-transitioning-into-governing-body/
Oi!PAC
They have intentionally targetted journalists in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me if this is true.
The Rafah ground invasion has been a distraction from the start. People there are getting bombed every day in any case.
The main problem is his use of sources and references. The devil is always in the details. I based this on the analysis by Werner Cohn, which you can find here. I find it really well argued.
They've also actually begun the Rafah ground invasion a day or so ago anyway:
Pics are from Al Jazeera but article here - Recent Israeli strikes signal start of Rafah operation, says Palestinian foreign ministry | Middle East Eye
They've also actually begun the Rafah ground invasion a day or so ago anyway:
Pics are from Al Jazeera but article here - Recent Israeli strikes signal start of Rafah operation, says Palestinian foreign ministry | Middle East Eye
It's not a ground invasion though but yeah they have been killing civilians and destroying their homes for some time in Rafah now.
That's fine but I'm still at a loss as to how the statement by itself is an anti semitic one?
The problem for me is that the fundamental premise of it is irrelevant.
I don't accept the premise that Rachel Riley or Stephen fry can fly to the land tomorrow and move to Jerusalem or Ariel or Hebron and have instantly more rights than a Palestinian who lives in Jerusalem, Jericho or Hebron. This is regardless of whether Ashkenazis originate from Khazars or from the same genetic ancestors as the mizrahi Jews (which is my own understanding).
Could you give us a summary of your issues with his comments about the Hebron massacre, as opposed to a 42 page essay?
Your friend is lucky that he lives in a time and place that is relatively safe. Although in the past couple of months, I wouldn't be so sure about that too. Maybe he would be speaking differently if he had lived during the Roman Empire, 14th century Spain, 19th century Russian Empire, Ottoman Empire, or basically anywhere during WWII, Hungary, Poland, Belarus just to name a few (not to mention the Arab world after 48). There lies your answer why your friend has the "right to rock up to the land of Israel tomorrow".
Regarding what is disputed here I will say this. Both sides have legitimate claims and neither will be able to get absolute justice. Ever. Both sides have to accept that the second one is going nowhere and a model of coexistence must be found.
On Ethiopian Jews, I am no expert on genetics and anthropology, so I will ask a stupid question. How did they become Jews in the first place? How did they discover Judaism?