Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

calodo2003 said:
I agree with the tactics from mostly a necessity standpoint.

But tactics like these have consequences.
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Everyone knows that they have consequences, what is the point of highlighting it?
 
JPRouve said:
Everyone knows that they have consequences, what is the point of highlighting it?
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That’s my point. The resultant collateral damage will always occur.

The horror that exists daily in the camps / populated areas should be the focus, but like has been said recently, such unfortunately doesn’t draw the clicks or eyes or is sensational enough.

Yet the sensational video is an inevitable result of conflict.

It seems completely intractable, it’s a true Gordian knot.
 
Carolina Red said:
Indeed. They could insert their famed special forces to do the work on the ground.

Instead... Israel only uses ground troops in the West Bank... but frequently uses artillery and air strikes in Gaza with 10x the population density. Make it make sense.
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I think the 2006 Lebanon war scarred them a little bit to the point where they're now far more apprehensive about ground operations, especially against an organised militia using guerilla tactics.
 
Carolina Red said:
I know. It would be what our SF did in places like Baghdad.
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But there was a bit of maneuverability in Baghdad.

Urban fighting in fecking Gaza or Manhattan should only exist in a video game. The horror of what would happen is too much to envision.
 
Kaos said:
Yep. I've always said that Hamas and the Israeli government have been unusual bedfellows. Peace and stability do not suit either of their respective agendas. Gaza can burn, and the rockets can fire over the skies of Haifa all the while Netanyahu grins as the focus is off his corruption scandal and election woes while Hamas' leaders preach from their luxury premises in the Emirates.
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Spot on. They need each other. I mean the guys actually dying for Hamas are cannon fodder. If there is peace Hamad becomes irrelevant. And without Hamas Israel has to come up with a different narrative. It's difficult to justify killing innocent people for the sake of killing them. Now they justify by saying look they fired rockets first. It's doesn't bother them one second that they are killing innocent people.
It's like slavery. Yes they were alive but subjugated. It's what the Palestinians are going thru.
By the way the Saudis and other Gulf Arab countries are complicit in this too for sacrificing the Palestinians to make Trump happy.
 
calodo2003 said:
But there was a bit of maneuverability in Baghdad.

Urban fighting in fecking Gaza or Manhattan should only exist in a video game. The horror of what would happen is too much to envision.
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Yes, please, for the love of god. Traffic is bad enough as it is.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
Unfortunately there is no msm in the West that isnt sympathetic to the Israeli narrative.

In the UK all of our papers and tv are owned by 5 companies whom all happen to have Israeli interests at their heart
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This was posted in the ‘Low IQ’ thread, quite appropriate to your post...

 
Kaos said:
I think the 2006 Lebanon war scarred them a little bit to the point where they're now far more apprehensive about ground operations, especially against an organised militia using guerilla tactics.
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I think the greater concern about a protracted ground war would be the ensuing humanitarian crisis and bad public relations the Israelis would have to deal with. They could go in and flatten the place anytime they want, but obviously aren't going to do that because they would lose the moral leverage they have in western populations, which undergirds their ability to do what they've been doing over the years.
 
Kaos said:
I'm not one to cherish violence, but I wouldn't stop myself laughing if a wayward rocket ends up hitting one of these sick 'tourist viewing camps'.

Sickening that people seek such cinema at the expense of people suffering immeasurably.
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Are they also selling tickets?
 
calodo2003 said:
But there was a bit of maneuverability in Baghdad.

Urban fighting in fecking Gaza or Manhattan should only exist in a video game. The horror of what would happen is too much to envision.
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Exactly. So maybe, just maybe, they'd move towards peace.

Instead, no, they'll just keep on using artillery and air strikes in the place with 13,000 people per square mile.
 
I don't think Israel ever faced such negative PR this century, even among Western audiences. Is the tide turning?
 
VorZakone said:
I don't think Israel ever faced such negative PR this century, even among Western audiences. Is the tide turning?
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Only on social media. None of the MSM media is saying much about this apart from the Hamas rockets.
 
Foxbatt said:
Only on social media. None of the MSM media is saying much about this apart from the Hamas rockets.
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Social media is quite relevant since its technically media as well. If there's a massive surge of social media sentiment, the MSM will be forced to cover the story more closely.
 
Kaos said:
Yep. I've always said that Hamas and the Israeli government have been unusual bedfellows. Peace and stability do not suit either of their respective agendas. Gaza can burn, and the rockets can fire over the skies of Haifa all the while Netanyahu grins as the focus is off his corruption scandal and election woes while Hamas' leaders preach from their luxury premises in the Emirates.
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Constant tension is too big a cottage industry for either side to drop.
 
pierrethesnack said:
I don't think the international community have ever had less leverage over Israel than now.
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The Americans have told Norway to hold on their resolution condemning Israeli actions as they are trying to stop this behind the scenes. International community never had any leverage. Only the Americans do.
 
It's like two different worlds. At least in Portugal it seems to go like this, for people who know little or nothing about the conflict: a) people who watch tv "oh well, those arabs again and their violence, poor Israel has to defend itself", b) people who follow social media "wtf is Israel doing, these cnuts are butchering civilians". Quite strange how things are portrayed so differently.
 
Carolina Red said:
Exactly. So maybe, just maybe, they'd move towards peace.

Instead, no, they'll just keep on using artillery and air strikes in the place with 13,000 people per square mile.
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Peace would certainly be a wonderful choice, but simply unattainable.

A move towards less tension & conflict would be brilliant as well, but the current climate effectively negates that possibility.
 
Carolina Red said:
Exactly. So maybe, just maybe, they'd move towards peace.

Instead, no, they'll just keep on using artillery and air strikes in the place with 13,000 people per square mile.
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Sorry to be obtuse, but what's preventing palestine from building bomb shelters? It's not expensive and it's not difficult. They've received more in foreign aid than most populations.
 
Shamana said:
Sorry to be obtuse, but what's preventing palestine from building bomb shelters? It's not expensive and it's not difficult. They've received more in foreign aid than most populations.
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They don't. You are confusing West Bank and Gaza. Most of the aid goes to West Bank.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
Unfortunately there is no msm in the West that isnt sympathetic to the Israeli narrative.

In the UK all of our papers and tv are owned by 5 companies whom all happen to have Israeli interests at their heart
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Yep. I had to go to non-western sources to get the other side of the story at Al-Aqsa.
 
VorZakone said:
I don't think Israel ever faced such negative PR this century, even among Western audiences. Is the tide turning?
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People have shown they are fed up seeing their fellow humans subject to any form of oppression. We can only hope that support for a more inclusive world continues.
 
calodo2003 said:
How else would defusing geopolitical tension start?
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Sure, that's what's needed now. But again, I was replying to whether the tide is turning, and I don't see the current administration, or any administration for that matter, trying to pressure Israel with the intensity and time span which is needed to actually turn the tide and make things better for the Palestinians.
 
pierrethesnack said:
Sure, that's what's needed now. But again, I was replying to whether the tide is turning, and I don't see the current administration, or any administration for that matter, trying to pressure Israel with the intensity and time span which is needed to actually turn the tide and make things better for the Palestinians.
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I see what you are saying.

No, there’s absolutely no political impetus to reduce any overall support for Israel.
 
Giggs86 said:
If you refer to my previous post, I specifically mentioned Israeli-Arabs who hold Israeli citizenship. Israel not treating non-citizens equally, why would they? Which country treats non-citizens equally as its own citizens?
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Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, should I go on? i,e modern civilized countries, not barbaric countries.
 
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