Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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25,000 tons of bombs, the equivalent of two Hiroshima nuclear bombs, have been dropped on Gaza and this was three weeks ago. The most recent estimations are close to 40,000 tons.
According to the latest data from the UN’s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), World Health Organization (WHO) and the Palestinian government, and as of November 7:
- 222,000 residential units damaged with more than 40,000 completely destroyed.
- 270 healthcare facilities attacked.
- 69 places of worship damaged, including mosques and churches.
- 45 ambulances damaged.
- 11 bakeries destroyed.
According to the latest data from the UN’s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), World Health Organization (WHO) and the Palestinian government, and as of November 7:
- 222,000 residential units damaged with more than 40,000 completely destroyed.
- 270 healthcare facilities attacked.
- 69 places of worship damaged, including mosques and churches.
- 45 ambulances damaged.
- 11 bakeries destroyed.
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It helps when you’re harbouring the terrorist leaders though.
Finally some good news. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end.
It's been used more than once:
My point being that in this instance it may be for a specific descriptive purpose that isn't underhanded.
Do you not think that a population of people grabbed from their homes and off the street in a kidnapping raid may be more likely to be related i.e. mothers with their children, than arrestees made by the IDF for supposed crimes?
Do we know whether the Palestinian prisoners are related? If not, the spreading of that gripe on that point is meaningless
And the US.
I was going to leave it because I'm generally a bit tired of the same conversations going round in the same circles with the same posters but thought I'd come back to this.
I didn't say you explicitly support Israel. Nearly all of your posting though is to place blame on Hamas/ Palestinians in general / Arabs in general.
Actually people have said bombing hospitals are reasonable. In particular, hospitals which harbour extensive military infrastructure. You yourself may not have explicitly said it but you clearly provided the justification yourself. It's why I pulled you up multiple times for conflating the presence of tunnels (which literally nobody denies exist across Gaza, including Hamas themselves) and the presence of a military command centre under Al-Shifa (which for some people, including on here, makes the hospital a valid target, while of course making sure to issue empty platitudes about how they themselves don't personally agree but what you gonna do, Israel gonna Israel). The two are leagues apart in terms of providing justification, even if superficial, for an assault on a hospital.
So far, no evidence of a command HQ. What are you going to do though. Shrug our shoulders I guess.
I'm not saying them going to war and losing is a good thing. It's undoubtedly been a massive negative for the Palestinians that their closest allies have been roundly subdued. I'm saying that your weird focus on the Arabs paying only lip service to them is false. They have gone to war. They have taken literally millions of refugees (and still house millions of them). They have embargoed the west for their support of Israel in wars. None of it have worked and Israel and it's backers have undoubtedly 'won', with all relevant actors now brought under the American umbrella. So yes now the Arab leaders will do nothing but offer lip service now, for many many reasons. Yey somehow they receive more criticism from you about the Palestinians than the actual cause of their problems themselves. Because they don't want to facilitate even more rounds of ethnic cleansing I guess.
Again, don't think anyone here has denied that Hamas are despicable cnuts. Just like nobody denies they're using tunnels. I would like nothing more than those twats disappearing off the face of the earth tomorrow. Definitely people justifying Isrsel's response though, a total lack of agency from Israel or the USA etc etc.
Good post.
I imagine outfoxing MBS isn't a Herculean task to be fair.
Just an horrific set of people, just all round grim and irredeemable.
This is good news.
The link I showed you uses "women" in both cases but "children" for one and "young people" for the other; that distinction is the most relevant.
The distinction is made because the Palestinians are 14 or older and arrested for (presumably) committing a crime or misdemeanor.
You can define a child as either being below the age of majority or below the age of puberty. You can make your own judgment as to which definition is appropriate for whichever context.
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Only in response to a huge swathe of posting that places all blame on Israel. Israel have a great deal to answer for in general but selectively ignoring everyone's role is happening all the time and predominantly favoring Hamas. Equally blind support for Israel has been less frequent in here, but we have also moderated that content more vigorously as when it occurs it is usually next level biased.
The point being that people were ludicrously trying to deny Hamas's use of tunnels and bunkers and hospitals. If they had said they didn't think bombing hospitals was justified no matter what (as I did) that would be a supportable stance. Equivocation to back conformational bias isn't imo.
What evidence did you expect? They had days to evacuate and it beggars belief that they didn't use the facilities the Israeli's left.
The whole thread is worth a read.
Surely you understand that this won't be persuasive to many people here. It is only slightly different than "Saddam had too much time to hide the WMDs."
Not my fault. And two totally different things of course.
Saddam and the WMD was fairly obvious Dubya wish fulfilment swallowed whole by Tony the lapdog.
@Wibble What evidence did you expect? They had days to evacuate and it beggars belief that they didn't use the facilities the Israeli's left.
if what you say is accurate then why would the Israelis attack and occupy it? And kill so many more people?
if what you say is accurate then why would the Israelis attack and occupy it? And kill so many more people?
I think it's beggar's belief to think that anyone with multiple brain cells would set up the command centre for the whole operation in a bunker that they know Israel have the exact location of(because they built it).
It kind of is.
You are trying to sell the argument that we need a nuanced, broader, 'above it all' approach that doesn't take sides.
But then you are effectively taking sides by refusing to give an inch about what appears to have been Israeli propaganda. This undermines your broader argument.
It's fairly obvious Israel just drew up list of likely bases and then targetted them accordingly. That's enough justification according to some, shouldn't be for anyone who cares about innocent lives.
Why this is such a dominating topic of conversation though is the infuriating aspect. I said before it's a silly attempt from some to play gotcha where somehow they win a very targetted argument if there were a base there. It doesn't change anything other than point scoring but to be right on one thing is to be right about everything to some.
It's obvious where this is going, they'll be attacks from Hamas during the 'humanitarian pause' and thus we'll have another round of 'Hamas bad guys, therefore Israel good guys'.
The most shocking thing in all of this to me is how much the goal posts seemed to have moved, in terms of what's an acceptable target in a 'war'. I don't understand how it's even in discussion that a school, refugee camp, or hospital are targets that should be acted upon.
Really concerning that you can have this view. If they (Hamas) don't adhere to the pause, then yes, that puts them in the wrong. And yes, they are "bad guys" regardless. Your post some how reads that Hamas are the victims here. Hamas is the enemy of Israel and the Palestinians.
It's the helplessness and unfairness of it all that boils my blood when I see what those illegal settlers are doing.
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I'm amazed by how quickly something becomes "tolerated" or "accepted". Really eye opening.
These terrorists have been enabled by their government and are protected by their army, with the unconditional support of the US, the EU and Britain, while the rest of the world turns a blind eye, waiting for Palestine to quietly vanish from the region and History.
There's not even an illusion of international laws anymore. Anyone with the bigger army in any given region of the world is now completely free to do whatever they want. Ukraine, Sudan, Yemen, Palestine...it's massacre after massacre.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67494374
Really disappointing from an industry that I want to be a part of. So disheartening.
I know it's not new news as such and quite predictable but still a blow when I read about it.
My guy John Cusack recently tweeted a very angry tweet about the US involvement (or non-involvement, depends how you want to look at it) with what's going on so expecting him to be dropped too.
Really disappointing from an industry that I want to be a part of. So disheartening.
I know it's not new news as such and quite predictable but still a blow when I read about it.
My guy John Cusack recently tweeted a very angry tweet about the US involvement (or non-involvement, depends how you want to look at it) with what's going on so expecting him to be dropped too.
Only through your ridiculous bias and paranoia could you read it that way. The obvious point is it's an undeniable truth that Hamas are bad guys, it has no bearing on the judgment of Israel and its actions yet it often becomes a mechanism for exactly that through two-siding the debate.
There is two sides but it's civilians vs military.
It was the US that brokered most of the deal, specifically the White House and.CIA, with the Qataris being used as the intermediary to Hamas.
They can't drop Tom Cruise, can they? He is probably the most recognizable face on the planet.
It’s definitely made much easier when one’s country serves as the de facto Airbnb for Hamas leadership. MBS tried his own gimmick to appear relevant by hosting an Arab summit a few weeks ago, which yielded nothing because the two main players (Israel and the US) weren’t involved, which ended up making the event little more than a PR exercise where regional Arab leaders made it look as if they were doing something to assuage their domestic protests.
Susan Sarandon was dropped from her talent agency for similar speech.
The vibe out here is quite palpable at the moment.
An actual, genuine case of ‘cancel culture’, and as is usually the case, it involves a person on the left being fired, and is being cheered on by the freeze peach warriors of the right.
Am I missing something? From what I've read none of what the aforementioned have tweeted is remotely antisemitic. Or have the US just given up pretending that free speech is a thing?
It's like 7th October didn't really happen. They weren't all military. Hundreds of Israeli civilians lost their lives in the most brutal way.
He'll land on his feet if dropped. The man happily jumps out of aeroplanes
Yeah I read that. fecking stupid isn't it?
It's just silly and absolute bullshit.
Actors and people of that fame can make a difference with their words/thoughts etc and are being silenced. The same happened wit hthe BBC coverage of the Scottish BAFTAs. The presenter and winners mentioned "free Palastine" and the BBC edited it out on their BBC iPlayer coverage.
Being pro-Palestinian is conflated as pro-Hamas in many circles in the US at the moment, especially around the entertainment industry.
I'm not sure the goal posts have moved, it's more the nature of this war. A lot of the time you see two armies going at each other. In this case, the Hamas strategy is to use the civilian population as cover.
Article 52 of the Geneva convention says, "Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of reprisals. Civilian objects are all objects which are not military objectives as defined in paragraph 2. ..... military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage"
Article 8 of the ICC clarifies this, in relation to war crimes, that, "(ix) Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not military objectives".