I saw reports those tunnels were made by the IDF in the 80s hence why they knew Hamas could be there.
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Yes I read the same thing, 1983 I believe. That's why I'm saying that I don't know how IDF think these two videos prove there is a Hamas command centre at Al Shifa.
But I am curious to see what's behind that door.
It doesn't prove anything other than they want to lower international criticism and create justification for why they are bombing hospitals.
Yeah I'm hearing that the Indonesian hospital is now out of order and nowhere in North Gaza to get aid with Khan Younis in the south next.
Was listening to an interview from Sky News with Mark Regev, who said they're going to build some sort of temporary pop-up style hospitals... How the hell would that work?
The IDF.
A very efficient and orderly population transfer.
This, the targeting of journalists, the videos of the soldiers strutting around the school blackboards and of course the uncountable bombings against schools - reminds me of the directives of the Nazis against Polish culture.
Jordan moved into Gaza with their temporary/field hospital today plus 170 staff members including medical staff. Beds, equipment, etc. were beforehand transported from Jordan to Egypt via several planes. Then today the Jordan Crown Prince also arrived in Egypt to oversee the logistics/meet people.Yeah I'm hearing that the Indonesian hospital is now out of order and nowhere in North Gaza to get aid with Khan Younis in the south next.
Was listening to an interview from Sky News with Mark Regev, who said they're going to build some sort of temporary pop-up style hospitals... How the hell would that work?
UAE is also in the process of building one temporary hospital (or maybe they already did), Qatar may be next according to reports.
Turkey and UAE have also started evacuating injured children plus cancer patients for treatment in Turkey/UAE.
France is also in the process of building a ship hospital at the Gaza coast.
So thankfully at least some stuff is happening and hopefully there will be much more soon.
Hopefully these will help the people in need. Any news if the UK or US getting involved with this?
Yep - they are helping ensure there is enough demand for the ever increasing supply
It may not have been intended to do so, but the video he posted makes a valid point as refutation of the many posters on here who wish to make a hard distinction between Hamas and Palestinians or Gazans. This video supports the idea that at the time there seemed to be a pretty significant level of support among Palestinians/Gazans for the actions of Hamas.
And this video was posted/live-streamed by Palestinians so it can't easily be dismissed as war propaganda like so much else that comes out from both sides making atrocity claims against the other.
Arafat was an idiot to outright reject the 2 state solution offer made to the PLO in 2000, on the grounds that there was no full right of return, which Israel were never ever going to agree to, as it effectively would have legislated Israel's right to exist away. Arafat let his hatred for Israel count for more than what was a least shit option, that might at least have avoided the current shit show, at least to some degree. He basically kicked the can down the road giving Israel time to fragment the West Bank with settlements making even the offer made in 2000 now impossible. Be careful what you wish for I guess.
And before people leap up and down, no, this doesn't mean Israel are in any way an innocent party in all of this. But there is lots of blame and misjudgment on various timescales to go around.
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Isn't that exactly how they knew there was an underground command center?
I suspect the imposed removal of West Bank settlements is almost impossible now. The purpose of the settlements was to permanently expand Israeli land and prevent backtracking to former boundaries/occupancy. One reason a 2 state solution hasn't happened is that Israel needed one far less that the Palestinians did, even though an achievable one would have been far less than they hoped for.
UK, US and Germany will only get involved once Israel tells them for now it feels it has killed enough Palastinian people and infrastructure.
All those countries are shit and they support terrorists!
Obviously the creation of Israel essentially ignored that people already lived there even if there wasn't a country per se there. Which is all largely irrelevant because Israel exists and is going to continue to do so.
Arafat and the PLO for sure have to take some of the blame. Palestinians in general not so much.
Yes although you can see why there needed to be a Jewish homeland, just not why is had to be done ignoring people who lived in the region. And they obviously have significantly controlled much of what has happened since. And behaved badly in general.
They have paid the penalty for refusing what was on offer from those in control, those who had the power handed to them by the 6 day war. What was offered was much better than what they will ever get now. In NI the "solution" was far from perfect and nobody got exactly what they wanted, but the outcome was a million times better than what went before. And people have largely stopped being killed. Simply saying "It isn't fair" on its own is useless.
Erm? The original Australian's were kicked off their land and treated even worse that Palestinians were when people arrived and created a county, on the assumption that there was nothing there before - and then murdered, forcibly moved to camps, had their children removed etc. Terra nullis. Whatever the injustice proposing a solution/reconciliation that involves modern Australia ceasing to be is just delusional.
I'm "with" neither side. I'm against violence, death and injustice. Of course I am. But the idea that all the blame is simply Israel's is simplistic and outright wrong. More than one thing can be simultaneously true. And there is lots of blame to go around.
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I agree is most of it. I could nickpick but the general idea is the same i have
Ok. Lets say the UN pulls out of ther arse a resolution that half US have to pack their belongings to another area because they are giving half the country to the first nations (who are IMO more entitled than jews to a israel state in 1948). Do you think that US would accept? No country would accept that. Are you crazy?
Then seems that palestine had to go with the UN resolutions but israel doesnt when the resolutions talks about illegal settlements. And had been ignored.
And yes lets not pretend that no country will ever accept to have less that what they already have
You asked me about Australians. I answered about Australians. The Australians who were dispossessed and treated in very similar (only worse) ways to Palestinians. And no. I would never commit violence on innocents people for any cause. And the point is that there is no point bemoaning the fairness of something when you seek something impossible as a solution. In Australia's case some land handback has occurred (but not the sort of land houses are built on and the like) but reverting to some past point before occupation is just impossible and delusional. Just as any Palestinian hope that Israel will just disappear is impossible and delusional. For Palestinians there will either be no deal or a deal that is well short of what Arafat declined in 2000. Fairness is irrelevant when it just isn't an option. Better the least shitty deal possible than no deal. At least far fewer people will die especially as there is no gain for anyone if they continue to die in droves.
What might happen in some fictional modern day isn't really worth pondering as it would involve someone attacking a developed country with a significant armed force. So not analogous to Indigenous Australians being displaced by white settlement or Palestinian displacement when Israel was formed (and since).
Its ok because something worse happened is a silly point (if that was actually the point of the article).
I once hear Israelis described as easy to admire and hard to like. There is an element of truth in that. And who is being indifferent? Seeking an unworkable solution will make the Palestinian people suffer more and not less.
Israel are likely to engage in more propaganda but there is also a not insignificant (but probably less coordinated) propaganda effort the other way. Inevitable I guess. Death and suffering is an emotive issue but sadly emotional responses don't often produce workable practical outcomes. Hamas knew this and counted on it when they attacked. Just as Israel know they can rely on it from the majority of their electorate and others (like US) whenever they need to respond to an attack. Depressing but true.
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Its a massive massive tragedy all round. Over the decades Palestinian leadership has let their people down horribly and over the same timeframe the Israeli leadership has simply poured fuel on the fire.
Hate breeds hate. Its awful.
Agreed.
It probably would have changed sympathies and willingness to get involved, if after this massacre (which i'm assuming would be of similar size and against Donbas seperatists) the response was a smaller scale incursion to "stabilise" only that region (and no doubt later annex it ). But for a full-scale invasion that quickly devolves into civilian massacres, a brutal siege of an entire city and indiscriminate bombing of its own? No, i think just as with Israel's response to Oct 7th, opinion would have turned against such things, especially as western media would not be so hesistant with a "they are going too far, this is unjustified" perspective.
Rudy Rochman and Slavoj Zizek (what a weird combination, I know), made a very similar point recently. For change one that sounds a little bit hopeful. Enjoy.
Rudy is a little bit shorter:
Slavoj gave his usual longer explanation starting at 44:45 but whole video is worth watching:
Rudy is a little bit shorter:
Slavoj gave his usual longer explanation starting at 44:45 but whole video is worth watching:
I know there’s a lot of loss in this “war”, and I’ve been trying to look at this thread less because the blind eye being turned to mass extermination troubles me down to my core, but my heart aches for my brothers and sisters in the medical fraternity who are being lost here.
The people carrying out these acts, and those justifying and supporting it are scum. Absolute scum.
Again, this might be true, it might not. I'm not sure what posting it helps. No one has a way of verifying such a story. It ticks all the boxes of outrage though.
You'd be belligerent if people were posting random unverified tweets from settlers saying Palestinians did horrible things.
Think we'd all be better off just not, imo.
By all means, post corroborated, news verified atrocities: there are plenty. But I've seen so many debunking sites now that such a perfect outrage tweet falls on my skepticism radar.
So many rotten implications in this post and says a lot about how warped your perspective is.
Israel removing illegal settlements is not a well done, nor is bringing them back as well as killing the Palestinian civilians trying to live peacefully.
Israeli people voted in a terrorist party and contributed to ethnic cleansing? Sweeping statement that is akin to what you’re saying. Not all Palestinians are suicide bombers, just like not all Israelis are committing genocide.
Stop using hypotheticals as justification for the heinous acts. Israel in Palestine is the reality, not Palestine in Israel, and that’s the horror show.
They’re also killing the remaining Palestinian Christians in Gaza - there’s less than 1,000 left:
Gaza’s Christians fear ‘threat of extinction’ amid Israel war
Israel’s assault on Gaza could spell the end of the Christian community’s long history in the enclave.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/featu...-fear-for-communitys-survival-amid-israel-war
While I’m not going to deny that the BBC has issues with fair balancing of the parties involved, I also think to take a single news show as proof for this, doesn’t really work and doesn’t make much sense.
of course in this instance you have a fair point. But in reality if you have followed media coverage for a while, not in the uk but Canada and US, it is pretty obvious the Israel angle takes precedence. You would only understand this pre bombings but after?
They've killed another journalist team in South Lebanon. Of course, nothing will happen to them.
I know. I’m not disputing this. I just believe if someone wants to make this very valid point, they should do so in a manner that’s much better researched. Because arguing like this, at least in my opinion, results in nothing but ammunition for the other side, who have now been given a base for valid criticism that makes it more difficult to argue the same point.
The truth suffers if it gets represented in a bad way. Even if it’s the truth.
Qatar-brokered hostage deal and ceasefire looking imminent now. Three Palestinian prisoners to be released for every Israeli - https://www.axios.com/2023/11/21/israel-hamas-hostage-ceasefire-deal-imminent