Another martyr.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Another martyr.
Most of them don't even know what these accords entail and others think that it's still a better deal than the current occupation. They also conveniently ignore the crucial fact that the accords would also deny the Palestinians any kind of further legitimate demands.
As if the Palestinians shouldn't make such a fuss about a fully functional and independent state, and be content with the crumb thrown at them which would have been robbed anyway somewhere down the line.
I don't speak any Hebrew, but am interested in what the soldier is saying. Or explaining. Is there anyone who can translate?
You’re right - I’ll need to double check (have deleted the tweet for the time being).
Honestly if you are looking for a strongly held pro-Israel view you could see anything Alan Dershowitz has said. I think there are a few videos on YouTube with him debating Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky which are good as they will show you the immediate counters offered to his positions
I read the average age of the children who died is less than a year old, perhaps with the added number of adults it would be around 5 years old.
For the sake of balance, I absolutely second that.
@Dirty Schwein, here's a debate between Dershowitz and Chomsky dating from 2005.
In Israel's attacks, 133 babies under the age of 1, and 444 babies younger than 3 were killed.
In bombings, 171 children at the age of three, 1,527 elementary school age (4 - 13), and 523 high school age (14 - 17) were killed
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/gaza-strip-worlds-deadliest-place-for-children/3043175
Is this helpful? All I could find.
Thank you both, will definitely add to my watchlist.
I have a question about this, which was raised to me by a user that has been PMing me about the war.
How do they identify the deaths after a bombing? Like how do they know the bolded for example?
As far as I know it's pretty well documented (correct me if I'm wrong) that Israel in the 50s, especially people like David Ben-Gurion and Moshe Dayan, actively wanted to provoke Egypt into either starting a war or doing something that would give Israel a legitimate reason to do so themselves. Culminating in the Suez Crisis in 1956. Do you know if there is anything as explicit leading up to 67, or if the Israeli attitude was different?
Honestly the Israeli Govt are worse than Hamas
Thread
I'd put nothing past these fecking monsters but it's best to be accurate. I wouldn't be surprised if the average age is somewhere in the teens for example.
The guy was a doctor who may or may not have been practicing their Hippocratic oath.
You have to recognize your unfortunate wording in a post where you call Hamas ‘their side’ while at the same time complaining about dog whistles
It's false, it's the mode (the most common age), not the mean (average). Still horrific!
The most common age being 5 is mental. I can't believe we still have people in this thread saying Israel are minimising civilian casualties or have people stopped perpetuating that lie?
About 40% of Gaza's population is 14 years old or younger and the territory's median age was just 18 in 2020, making Gaza home to one of the world's 20 youngest populations, based on figures from the CIA's World Factbook.
And considering how batshit the rest of the Middle East is, that really is saying something!
BBC News - BBC assesses footage of hostages and tunnels released by Israel https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67478425
BBC Verify looking into the tunnel and hostage videos.
They haven't spotted anything dodgy like the first video of the hospital to be fair.
Although I still don't think it necessarily proves much beyond the fact that there is a tunnel under the hospital and that an injured person was bought into the hospital by Hamas.
Keenly awaiting footage on what's behind that door though. That could be a make or break moment for IDF.
BBC Verify looking into the tunnel and hostage videos.
They haven't spotted anything dodgy like the first video of the hospital to be fair.
Although I still don't think it necessarily proves much beyond the fact that there is a tunnel under the hospital and that an injured person was bought into the hospital by Hamas.
Keenly awaiting footage on what's behind that door though. That could be a make or break moment for IDF.
it is a young population. The population in Gaza has doubled since 2005. Because genocide
I don't know of anything so explicit, no. I would say that there are important differences in each case. On a regional level, pre-Suez Nasser was something of an unknown quantity but obviously a rising star with the potential to guide an Arab alliance to a another round of confrontation, whereas by 1967 his regional prestige had declined considerably due to a series of failures, and the Israelis had a better idea of who they were dealing with. Not that they weren't always open to any opportunity to humble him, but the same level of urgency about it wasn't there in the mid-60s as compared to a decade before.
In terms of immediate causes/escalations, the pre-Suez confrontation with Nasser was fueled by Egyptian-sponsored cross-border infiltration from Gaza and harsh Israeli responses, culminating in Suez and more than a decade of relative quiet on the Gaza frontier. It was gradual escalation with Syria in the north from 1966 onward that helped produce a more proactive and provocative policy as 1967 approached, with repeated Israeli warnings of strong measures should Syrian-sponsored cross-border attacks continue. But at the crucial moment in May, it doesn't seem that the Israelis were looking for conflict with Syria, given they offered to give the Soviet ambassador a tour of the north to disprove the claims of a military buildup there.
I've only read reviews of it, but apparently Tom Segev's 1967 argues that the war was primarily produced by a combination of Israeli anxieties and chauvinist expansionism in a context of economic downturn and social unrest. However I'd note that this is an explicitly revisionist take, and the one other book of his that I have read - One Palestine, Complete - would make me question his reliability as a guide in these matters. Most accounts emphasize the context of inter-Arab rivalries and the Cold War in producing the crisis, and in particular the Soviet role in triggering the immediate escalation that May.*
*(Edit) Example, this is from a great book called The Politics of Miscalculation in the Middle East by the American Arabist diplomat Richard B. Parker:
"None of the parties to the conflict seem to have anticipated war in the spring of 1967. There was tension along the Israeli-Syrian border, but that was normal. Egypt was thought to be too involved in Yemen, where the best third of its army was tied down, to undertake any military initiatives. Jordan wanted peace along its border, and so did Lebanon. Syria was being troublesome but was too weak to attack Israel, and the Israelis had no interest in a major war with anyone.
In retrospect it is clear that the political-military solution was super-saturated and all that was required to make it precipitate was for someone to drop in a crystal of solute. That act was performed by the Soviet Union."
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Dershowitz haven't been the same since this debate.
I've watched it. I've also read what happened after this interview and it didn't shed a good on Dershowitz.
But we're talking about Dershowitz here.
Weird point to try to make. Populations tend to be young when people can't reach old ages because of bombs and living in an open air prison without basic human conditions.
Yeah, they were living a dream in fact.
you realise that it wasn't always a "prison"?
Israel unilaterally dismantled its own settlements in Gaza and gave the land to the Palestinians.
instead of using the opportunity to coexist peacefully and in prosperity with Israel, they voted in Hamas and started blowing themselves up on buses in Israeli cities.
Ask yourself what a "Free Palestine" means. What happens if Israel decided to just let them into Israeli cities. What would happen? Would be a horror show
Ah so I see you’ve evolved your argument to brandish every Palestinian as a suicide bomber now. Classy.
A range of macabre ways, sadly.
ID or documentation on the deceased or in the home is one way. Surviving family members or neighbours can verify identity and age. If the body is intact there may also be pictures in the home that can be used.
What was done during WW2 where there were only body parts, not complete bodies, was to estimate the age and sex of the victim from the remains, such as a hand, leg or arm. Where a building was completely destroyed, and you could pull a certain number of remains from the building, you could know that at least (say) 5 people died, 2 adults and 3 kids. If a witness tells you that a family of 5 lived there, then you can put remains to names and ages too.
The number of deaths, great though it is, is not so large as to mean every relative or neighbour or person who knows the deceased is also killed, and that makes identification easier. I am not minimising what is going on, but compared to the firebombing of WW2 where simply tens of thousands of people were incinerated and went 'missing', and given the advances in forensic pathology, the fact that the health ministry can produce this level of detail is not a surprise.
Yes, this is much better.
By my maths considering the election happened in 2006 in which 44% voted for Hamas (without even going into the motives of each individual voter, and using your problematic paintbrush) that means at most 26% of the population voted for Hamas (and that is not counting deaths in the last 17 years and births in the last three) so 16-21% would be a more reasonable estimate.
If that percentage of people who vote for the far right in our country is the threshold for justifying slaughter, we are all in big trouble
I wish I didn't ask now
This is triggering. Don't tell me all the people here are Hamas. They are delighted as they spit and beat the lifeless bodies of Israelis. Absolute savages.
This is before Israel retaliated.
Israel was very kind to dismantle part of the prison they created themselves. And fortunately they haven't built any more settlements.
I don't believe palestinians would start murdering people in israeli cities if they were free, but maybe that's because I don't think all palestinians are hamas terrorists. It would be convenient for those doing the killing if they were, but in reality it's israel who is creating an actual real "horror show", and I prefer discussing things actually happening right now than hypotheticals based on islamophobia.
Thanks.
Don't worry mate, they told them where to go so it's there fault if they didn't leave
The Finkelstein one where he dismantles his book is brutal.
Dershowitz haven't been the same since this debate
This is the one. Dershowitz responded by trying to smear Norman's mother of being a Nazi ally/working with the Nazis.
A piece of work
Want me to post videos of Israelis urinating on Palestinian corpses? Gouging out their eyes? Beating them?
You're the most odious poster on here by far.