Well the cause and effect is clear that Israel is the aggressor. What you cant do is of all the events that brought us where we are now is the Hamas terrorist attack. There is a reason why Hamas exist, there is a reason why Hamas kept existing for the last +30 years. Seeing how IRA in Ireland and ETA in Spain disappeared it shows that if the population can thrive, they don't want to hear about a terrorist group. You can keep having independent political ideas, but there is no space for violence. But that is not the situation in Gaza. And the situation in Gaza is caused by Israel
If Israel would be interested in the 2 state solutions, they would not be constantly pushing with the settlement, so they believe that Palestine doesn't have the right to exist either. And yes, I am realistic. Israel has always wanted to have the whole promised land, from before 1948 and they only compromised while they had not enough power to be an hegemon in the region. Now that they are they don't want to compromise, but not since October 7th but from before
And yes, fully agree on the gorilla analogy, but Hamas is not Gaza and West bank is not Gaza either and civilians are the ones paying the consequences. A better analysis is that the gorilla, trying to kill you goes and kills all the zoo visitors. And for that, Israel has no excuse. Well, they have lots of excuses but are all BS
Finally see folks are talking a bit more about the issues, potential paths forward instead of posting latest shock twitter threads. That's something. For me the discussion above is the crux of the matter, indeed having tried to seek out many different views this is where I think we are, realistically:
1. Israel exists where it exists. You can make a very strong argument about why it shouldn't be there, but it is, and you can't now change that. Israel is too rich, too powerful and too entrenched. Further, the majority of initial Jews living in Israel in 1948 were NOT displaced European Jews, but displaced Middle-Eastern Jews. So yelling that they should just go home, and that they're 'coloinalists' akin to what was done all over the world is a bit off base. Personally, given what has been done to the Jewish people several times in history across different leaders, religions and so forth, I can see why the Jewish people feel like they need a failsafe place to call home. Anyway. For me Isreal is gonna be where it is.
2. The two-state solution attempts in the early 2000s were the closest we've gotten to a workable solution, and since then both sides have just gotten more extreme.
3. Netanyahu's desperate personal and hence political struggle of embracing the settlers (because he needs the votes and everyone else hates him) will hopefully be the final nail in his f*cking disgraced obituary. Not a good human.
4. The settlers are obviously in the wrong, particularly when they use violence and intimitation, and even worse when backed up by the IDF.
5. Isreal's treatment of Gaza and the world's apathy were a disgrace. That includes both western countries and arab countries. None of whom did much.
6. Hamas is a fundamentalist, radical terror group and not some put-down-upon ragtag rogues who were just trying to organise a bad situation for its people. It gives two f*cks about its people, their water, their education whcih can be seen by how much of each dollar of aid it stole either for personal wealth (go Google the leaders' net worth) or for military purposes.
7. Given the role of SA and how much money is the new (only?) political language in the area, Hamas knew its days were numbered if Israel and SA agreed a broader peace deal, as it would likely include an agreement for Palestine that doesn't feature Hamas.
8. So we get to October. And this is where I hugely diverge from others: if Hamas doesn't do what it did - at the scale, with the ferocity and with the publicity (Hamas literally filmed a lot of what it did ffs) the situation, today, would be better for Gazans. There would be a better chance of peace of some sort, a better chance of a two-state solution, a better chance of water and so forth.
9. Isreal has used up any traces of goodwill it had left with the West from its reaction, and Netanyahu has condemned his country for a few more months of power. There was 100% a path Isreal could and should have taken than what it has, but that was never going to happen with him in charge. But him being in charge is hardly a mystery, despite huge protests against him.
Finally, and this is clearly where most of the conflict with the majority of posters on this forum lies: I believe there is a path for the world to reign in Israel. War crime tribunals, using these horrible videos as evidence, prosecuting commanding officers and of course Bibi and his current cabinet. I really, desperately hope that happens, publically for the world to see in my lifetime. Because what Israel has done the last month has to be held up as an example that can never be permitted to a 'fellow-member' of the international order. And that's why I don't and can't just state both sides (Hamas/Israel) are the same, it's just not that simple for me.
