Dont you think that the comparisons are a bit different though, algeria, vietnam, afghanistan, etc were territories occupied by powers that had their land elsewhere and they had a place to return while for local population was surviving the invader. While israelians, besides de settlers that comes from other countries, they dont have another israel to go. Is a more an existencial occupation. If they lose, they will be again a pariah ethno-religious group scattered around the world
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Dont you think that the comparisons are a bit different though, algeria, vietnam, afghanistan, etc were territories occupied by powers that had their land elsewhere and they had a place to return while for local population was surviving the invader. While israelians, besides de settlers that comes from other countries, they dont have another israel to go. Is a more an existencial occupation. If they lose, they will be again a pariah ethno-religious group scattered around the world
Sums up my thoughts on it quite succinctly.
Read somewhere that State has been totally sidelined by the White House, treated like an outside interest/protest group, so probably this is their way of making themselves* heard.
*or at least, some part of the dept
I also wondered the same question about Hamas as they were on the verge of a defeat if the numbers in the polls ahead of the now-cancelled October elections in Gaza were true. This conflict is just way too convenient for them and for Bibi when their political dominance was/is clearly faltering.
There might not many faithful left at the end of the road anyway. Worse than that are the damage and the mess he will leave behind to whoever his successor will be.
A negotiated peace was being discussed at the highest levels during the Battle of France. Although the RAF were banned from dropping anything other than propaganda leaflets for a few months in 1939 (so a preemptive ceasefire of sorts?), and the British and French adopted a very passive footing during the Phoney War, hoping everything would blow over.
They have nothing left, for a some sort of a normal life in the future, bombed hospital, schools and universities.
She’s saying the opposite to be fair. It was an attempt at satire that she clarifies in subsequent tweets.
Sure, but I’m just describing a commonly-encountered Palestinian perspective, which often includes the assumption that with the inevitable Palestinian victory the Jews will “return” to Poland, Morocco, or wherever. Like you I also think this is a misreading of the Israeli Jews, but it’s understandable given what the Palestinians have experienced.
Just read that Labour MP Andy McDonald got suspended by the party for saying, "We won’t rest until we have justice, until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea can live in peaceful liberty.”
Mental.
Mental.
feck 'em then.
If they want to believe Tlaib is anti-Semitic (along with many Jews who use the term) that's their business.
It's like how they were so hung up about the correct application of the word Apartheid towards Israel (that they even called the use anti-Semitic until Amnesty International and other orgs put their stamp of approval)
I don't think this is that sensationalist.
Of course more than Hamas were involved, the Wiki page for the October 7th attack lists 4 parties alone on the Hamas side.
Of course some of (a couple, tens, I don't know) of the dead Israelis were killed by IDF/Israeli forces in shootouts with the Palestinians who were trying to take them hostage. All those Israelis would be alive if there was no October 7th attack.
I'm not sure there's much to takeaway from this politically.
Hey guys, lets tear down some centuries old statues and monuments of confederates and slavers because they offend our sensitivities and are dog whistles to white supremacists/racists.
Lets also use the term that Iran, Hamas, and every other terrorist uses for destruction of Israel. That's ok, it's just a slogan. We see it differently.
(Am I becoming right wing?
)edit: hah, then I read this.
I learned about the Nakba for the first time this last month after seeing outrage at Netflix for allowing some Palestinian documentary to be aired. Is there a level beyond utterly fecking mind blown because that's what state of disbelief I'm in that this extremist Zionist violent and murderous expulsion happened in 1948, a heartbeat after WWII. Maybe there was never really any hope for better humanity
Hey guys, lets tear down some centuries old statues and monuments of confederates and slavers because they offend our sensitivities and are dog whistles to white supremacists/racists.
Lets also use the term that Iran, Hamas, and every other terrorist uses for destruction of Israel. That's ok, it's just a slogan. We see it differently.
(Am I becoming right wing?
edit: hah, then I read this.
No, let's tear down statues and monuments of Confederates and slavers in public spaces because they shouldn't be publicly honored when their goal was to enslave the ancestors of many citizens who drive/walk by those statues every day.
How is that a parallel to saying that using a slogan which is not only used by Hamas, but by Jews, is anti Semitic? Especially when, most users are adamant in the conditions of their usage of the phrase?
You guys aren't good at analogies. If you were, you wouldn't spend years pushing back against the apartheid one.
edit:
that's a stretch, he may need some ice for that. As a resident on this side, when someone says "The South will Rise Again", that's not enough to determine the intent of the statement. If you're wearing a white hood or are draped in a Confederate flag, that may be the cherry on the shit racist sundae. If you're OutKast, you're pushing back against East Coast/West Coast snobbery of southern Hip-Hop. Maybe find another tweet that sticks the analogy landingNo, let's tear down statues and monuments of Confederates and slavers in public spaces because they shouldn't be publicly honored when their goal was to enslave the ancestors of many citizens who drive/walk by those statues every day.
How is that a parallel to saying that using a slogan which is not only used by Hamas, but by Jews, is anti Semitic? Especially when, most users are adamant in the conditions of their usage of the phrase?
You guys aren't good at analogies. If you were, you wouldn't spend years pushing back against the apartheid one.
edit:
Co-opting a hate term, used round the world by terrorists to mean something, to mean something else as a ”peaceful slogan” is clearly just dog whistling to those haters.You use it because you know it’s upsetting, because of the connotations, and you don’t care. You could viably pick any other term to mean peace and flowers, but you don’t, you pick one which dovetails perfectly with extremism.
Its no different to me using something like “white lives matter” or “blue lives matter” - i could pick any other term to express myself but choose to align myself with idiots. Is “blood and soil” ok with you? Or “"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children"?
As I said, my opinion on it aligns with this dude.
Whether people personally mean it in a kind way or not is their business, but not acknowledging exactly what you’re doing by using the term is just dishonest.
The issue is the slogan predated the likes of those factions - both militant Arab and the Israeli far-right, who themselves have just adopted it for more nefarious intent since then. Is it a clumsy slogan to adopt? Probably. But to say its a term sourcing from extremists isn't entirely true.
I only know what I’ve read on Wikipedia about the slogan, but it does seem murky at best, and there’s no real arguing that it does dog whistle the extremists. There’s no real need for it is there; it doesnt even really make sense in the way that Tlaib claims.
Sure I agree, it’s probably just an accepted protest chant now as much as glory glory man utd is at games or something, and the majority of lads chanting it have no nefarious intent. But every time it is used, it’s whistling those extremists who do. It’s lI’ve the “white lives matter” chants I suppose, the majority are just protesting using the term randomly, but its geeing up the hardcore racists.
I also (rightly or wrongly) hold Tlaib to a higher standard, as she’s supposed to be a US legislator.
Yes, let's debate the intricacies of phraseology while refugee camps are being purposely bombed multiple times.
He's paranoid and pessimistic in the best of times, so I'm sure he's extremely worried (about himself, that is), but all signs are showing that he's absolutely going to fight and try to claim it's not his fault.
He's got a big cult that will support him no matter what and gladly accept his reasoning and blame others.
Latest polls show he has lost nearly half of his party's voters. But still, he has the support of over half, and that's at his lowest ebb which is the weeks following October 7. He's more likely to regain at least some of them than lose any of the voters who are still willing to stick with him.
IDF telling people to flee to areas that are being bombed.
The irony.
He is not stupid saying that, he knows they will never do it, but want the world to know they have one and in addition to that he just want to plant more terror in the hearts of the Palestinian people.
Minister of Heritage wants to create some more Israeli heritage.
Feck me, what an idiot. I never knew he was a minister nor did I know what his responsibility was.
seems to have the understanding of a 5-year-old.
He's been banned from parliament meetings (the regular ones, that happen every week in every country),
that haven't actually taken place since the war began. Another lip service from Bibi, the grand master of it.
You don't need the horror images from Gaza,
The Israeli MPs will do the job for ya...
Mine also.
The problem with posting random cranks from twitter, is they generally make no sense. Yes, it’s a dog whistle to extremists on both sides. But the pro Israel side don’t use it. You don’t hear it here or at rallies, and they don’t try to claim it’s not malignant. He’s even (intentionally or stupidly) failed to identify the problem with it.
I’ll respect you and anybody else here if you have points to make, but as with the “Asa winstanley is a journo” incident I feel no need to be respectful to random cranks. He didn’t even acknowledge the Hamas attack, he can get fecked.
Let me ask you something.
You make statements like "pro Israel side don't use it" and focus on Hamas condemnation or not by individuals.
So what is Pro Israeli? What is it that you want when you ask doesn't Israel have a right to defend itself etc?
I can tell you what it is to me. For me, based on everything Israel stands for and does, how it treats ALL citizens/neighbours etc
It's supremacy. That's what Israel wants, defends and cries for
You are on record here advocating the crime against humanity of "getting rid" of the Palestinian presence. This is literally calling for an Israel from the river to the sea.
This Orwellian pretzel that's being concocted whereby the opponents of Gaza being ethnically cleansed are the real bad guys and the ones advocating for and, indeed, enacting it, are the victims really is something to behold.
Correct: the pro Israel side no longer uses dog whistles. They just say they want ethnic cleansing and/or wanton carnage.
You yourself used it.
Previous and present Israeli officials use it.
And most importantly and the most relevant one is that your fecking PM use it.
You really are insulting the intelligence of the posters here and it is becoming tiresome.
Didn't someone post a video of an Israeli parliament member, or ambassador, saying that phrase recently?