Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Why though, what's his angle? Please Iran?

Hamas staged a super effective attack on a much more powerful neighbour, whilst keeping their intentions secret from one of the best surveillance states in the world. I'm guessing he's wanting to learn from Hamas' attack.

But it's also solidifying what is pretty clear to most, the new anti-west/Democratic axis that exists. Iran and their Palestinian proxies are clearly on the side of Russia.
 
if they were out of Gaza they wouldn't get caught up in the violence. That's the point of evacuating them.
The same way the British evacuated their children from major cities in WW2

If israel would not be in israel they would not get killed in october 7? What kind of logic is that?
 
Well it sounds like you're ok with keeping them in Gaza then.
Well we could ask Israel to cease fire and stop behaving like a big baby. Violence has not brought peace for 80 years and nor will it this time. But it is ok, we know the life of an Israeli is worth more than the life of Palestinians. We know that only Israelis are deserving of a life of dignity and prosperity, Palestinians are ''sub humans'' that should live in a refugee camp without dignity.
 
Well we could ask Israel to cease fire and stop behaving like a big baby. Violence has not brought peace for 80 years and nor will it this time. But it is ok, we know the life of an Israeli is worth more than the life of Palestinians. We know that only Israelis are deserving of a life of dignity and prosperity, Palestinians are ''sub humans'' that should live in a refugee camp without dignity.

That’s why we said short of a bombing ceasefire, this would be the best option. The Israelis have already started their ground incursion so a ceasefire isn’t likely anytime soon.
 
Well we could ask Israel to cease fire and stop behaving like a big baby. Violence has not brought peace for 80 years and nor will it this time. But it is ok, we know the life of an Israeli is worth more than the life of Palestinians. We know that only Israelis are deserving of a life of dignity and prosperity, Palestinians are ''sub humans'' that should live in a refugee camp without dignity.

there was a ceasefire on 6th October.
 
there was a ceasefire on 6th October.

Palestinian killed during settler assault on West Bank town (October 6th)

More than 200 Palestinians, nearly 30 Israelis killed so far this year (August 22nd)

More than 200 Palestinians and nearly 30 Israelis have been killed so far this year in the occupied West Bank and Israel – a level of violence surpassing last year’s entire death toll and the highest number of fatalities since 2005, the United Nations Middle East envoy has said.
 
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Well it sounds like you're ok with keeping them in Gaza then.

Is there any point of this kind of glib post? Would be just as pointless to retort that it sounds like you're OK with ethnic cleansing then.

'Easily mitigated', give me strength.
 
Is there any point of this kind of glib post? Would be just as pointless to retort that it sounds like you're OK with ethnic cleansing then.

'Easily mitigated', give me strength.

It’s not glib at all. It’s reality. Not allowing civilians to leave is tantamount to keeping them in danger.
 
Also posted in the Islamophobia thread:


Not sure where to post this.

So the 2 lads next to me brought in a Palestine flag to the game today. Waived it for a few mins at half time. They got kicked out. It says on the united website you’re allowed to bring flags in.

Another incident. A friend of mine got exec seats. He was wearing Palestine colours (a hoodie). Initially refused entry before a senior said it was fine. The person who refused threatened to quit if he was allowed entry. Fortunately he was allowed. Good luck to her with her new job.
 
Also posted in the Islamophobia thread:


Not sure where to post this.

So the 2 lads next to me brought in a Palestine flag to the game today. Waived it for a few mins at half time. They got kicked out. It says on the united website you’re allowed to bring flags in.

Another incident. A friend of mine got exec seats. He was wearing Palestine colours (a hoodie). Initially refused entry before a senior said it was fine. The person who refused threatened to quit if he was allowed entry. Fortunately he was allowed. Good luck to her with her new job.

Modern democratic world for you.
 
So you call Gaza an "open air prison" and when Israel suggests leaving the "prison" to be safe from Hamas and Israeli bombs. They are the bad guys?

You do realise Israel created this open air prison right? So not only do they get to callously create this open air prison, they also get to bomb it into oblivion and then you’re here asking the residents who have suffered so much already to leave their homes, all 2.4 millions of them, so Israel can what, swoop in and claim the land for themselves?
 
The most charitable interpretation of Israel's plans for a post-Hamas Gaza would be that they intend to hand authority for the territory back to the PA in the aftermath of this war. Such a re-ordering of authority there would be almost entirely dependent on continued force of Israeli arms and massive support from the West and so-called 'moderate' Arab states to support the PA. I think it's clear enough how the PA will be perceived by the bulk of the Palestinian population in such circumstances, particularly if Israeli actions in the West Bank continue unabated.

(Edit): just to add, I don't think any place or people is "hard-wired" in any way, but a range of historical developments and circumstances have brought Gaza to this point, and Israeli policies over the decades have been a major (though not the only) driver of those developments.

If we're getting into optimism and hope, it's probably Marwan Barghouti being let out of jail, winning elections and becoming the next Arafat and a peace deal somehow being brokered with the leverage of the Americans threatening to cut funding to Israel if they don't make one, but then again I also hope United win the treble this season.
 
So what's better?

tell them to stay in Gaza while they bomb Hamas targets.

or

leave Gaza to be safe while they bomb Hamas targets
They're not bombing Hamas targets - they're bombing hospitals, schools, mosques, residential buildings. It's wanton destruction, and there's plenty of evidence to prove it.

Even if somehow, you can use your mental gymnastics to make a claim that all these buildings are Hamas run (they're not) - they've still murdered 60+ UN / humanitarian workers, around 20ish journalists (and in one case the journo's family), and 3,000 children and 2,000 women. So, you're misrepresented choice makes no sense.
 
They're not bombing Hamas targets - they're bombing hospitals, schools, mosques, residential buildings. It's wanton destruction, and there's plenty of evidence to prove it.

Even if somehow, you can use your mental gymnastics to make a claim that all these buildings are Hamas run (they're not) - they've still murdered 60+ UN / humanitarian workers, around 20ish journalists (and in one case the journo's family), and 3,000 children and 2,000 women. So, you're misrepresented choice makes no sense.
He knows full well what answer he's going to get, he's been asking variations of it for days now.

Netanyahu and his cronies have been doing what they could to ensure Hamas remains in power in Gaza because having that threat around benefits them. They were perfectly willing to accept occassional rocket barrages, because it A) meant they could say "see, they're dangerous and you need us to protect you from them" and B) gave them cover for continuing their horrendous treatment of the Palestinian people, and especially the Gazans. If there's one conspiracy surrounding this that I'm willing to believe, it's that Netanyahu allowed the attack to happen (though I don't expect he had any inkling as to how bad it would end up being) because he believed it would give them the international cover they needed to rid Gaza of Palestinians once and for all.

Regardless, the fact that they've now been given carte blanche to massacre Palestinians because their rabid dog broke its leash is completely insane.
 
Hinkle's reach is extraordinary.



He's an Assad defender which is a cruel irony. I think there's quite a few who have spent the last decade almost defending or outright denying the massacres Assad has authorised in Syria.
 
He's an Assad defender which is a cruel irony. I think there's quite a few who have spent the last decade almost defending or outright denying the massacres Assad has authorised in Syria.
More than a few turned their heads away from Assad's atrocities in this country too. They know who they are.
 
Thanks a lot.

That probably didn't solve it, because your issue is that you can't access his profile page due to privacy settings, and therefore can't physically access the ignore button, right? As in, you're just getting the "access denied" screen.

The profile address is this: https://www.redcafe.net/members/ragnar123.121593/. If you add on "ignore" to the end, then that will fix it. Or just click this: https://www.redcafe.net/members/ragnar123.121593/ignore
 
Also posted in the Islamophobia thread:


Not sure where to post this.

So the 2 lads next to me brought in a Palestine flag to the game today. Waived it for a few mins at half time. They got kicked out. It says on the united website you’re allowed to bring flags in.

Another incident. A friend of mine got exec seats. He was wearing Palestine colours (a hoodie). Initially refused entry before a senior said it was fine. The person who refused threatened to quit if he was allowed entry. Fortunately he was allowed. Good luck to her with her new job.
Quite disappointing.
 
That probably didn't solve it, because your issue is that you can't access his profile page due to privacy settings, and therefore can't physically access the ignore button, right? As in, you're just getting the "access denied" screen.

The profile address is this: https://www.redcafe.net/members/ragnar123.121593/. If you add on "ignore" to the end, then that will fix it. Or just click this: https://www.redcafe.net/members/ragnar123.121593/ignore
Yeah, it was exactly as you described it.

I hit a brick wall with your first option but the alternative worked a treat. My eyes will be able to get a rest now.

I honestly wish for an option to directly put a poster on ignore without having to access to their profile first.

Thanks mate, you're the man.
 
Yeah, it was exactly as you described it.

I hit a brick wall with your first option but the alternative worked a treat. My eyes will be able to get a rest now.

I honestly wish for an option to directly put a poster on ignore without having to access to their profile first.

Thanks mate, you're the man.
Woman
 
Funding them may be a it over the top but Netanyahu did things to tacitly stabilize Hamas’ rule in Gaza by allowing 15m in cash to be sent in from Qatar in 2018 to pay local civil servants after Fatah stopped payments to them in a cynical attempt to reduce Hamas’ influence in the strip. At the time Netanyahu’s excuse was that it would help stabilize southern Israeli towns from rocket attacks, something the likes of Naftali Bennett were very critical of; in retrospect rightfully so.

This is one of those examples some are now citing where Israel helped Hamas, but as usual, the specifics of why are a bit more nuanced than headline itself.


There has been more than one voice accusing Netanyahu of funnelling money to Hamas over the years.

There have been resignations because of it. There are even reports of how Qatar and Egypt wanted to cut ties with Hamas but Netanyahu begged them not to.

Israel's regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday's Likud faction meeting said," the Post reported.

"The prime minister also said that 'whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for' transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state."

Netanyahu knows that a peace plan means a Palestinian state. He doesn't want it
 
Do they? even that has changed since 2017. Carter did say Hamas was ready to negotiate but Netanyahu was not interested in a two state solution. The only thing I can see is Netanyahu marginalising the PA and Fath to give Hamas the ground for a bigger role in the Palestinian politics. That is the only way he can keep his dream of a one Israeli state if he has fanatics on the other side.
The 2017 Charter is, to my eyes, little more than a PR offensive and a desperate attempt to gain the Saudi's support back.

I would never consider the Hamas as a credible dialogue partner that would play by the rules unless my boot is firmly on its throat. Even then, I'd also honestly rather have had this kind of menace out of the way as fast as possible, and have done my utmost to search for and support a partner on the other side who can see reason and is truly willing to work together. Cut the grass under the feet of the extremists wherever and whenever possible. If I'm truly looking for peace and a fair solution, that is.

You just can't tame a snake, which is exactly why Netanyahu's policy was perverse, short-sighted, suicidal and doomed to failure. They've bred and fed a monster that they're now not going to be able to get rid of.
 
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I don't agree with what Israel is doing.
But of course understand why they need to get rid of Hamas.

Hamas is literally hiding behind its citizens and bunkered underneath the hospital.

Hamas has no regard for Palestinian or Israeli lives.

What should Israel do in this situation? They are damned either way.

Genuine Question for you.

Let's ignore Gaza for a minute. What would be a fair and proportionate response from West Bank Palestinians directed at israeli government and illegal settlers for 50 years of occupation, apartheid and illegal settlements.

What sort of reparations do you seem fair towards people of west bank?

After, Israel flattens Hamas turns them into Hummus at Gaza, would it suddenly be ready to make serious reparations with respect to West Bank?
 
Think-tank one day, ministry the next...the sky (rather, desert) is the limit!
(thread)

 
Unconscionable that the world is just looking on at this genocide. The hand wringing 10 years from now and never again will be from the usual purportedly liberal suspects.