You can attribute that to many factors but not anti-semitism which is what you are trying really hard to apply consistently in this thread.
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You can attribute that to many factors but not anti-semitism which is what you are trying really hard to apply consistently in this thread.
There were protests of solidarity all over the world. Take Berlin, where 40,000 were marching in solidarity with Iranian women (and also feel free to compare it to the restrictions on protesting in support of Palestine currently enforced in Berlin).
As others have noted, Iran and China are not considered allies of western states, and its fair to expect inhabitants of western states to protest their government's role in explicitly supporting the actions of Israel, as opposed to the same states' explicit condemnation of Iran and China.
You have completely lost the plot. Better for everyone involved and your own sanity and mental health that you take a long break from this thread. Take a couple of steps back and look at your own posts.
No.
The only valid and relevant comparison I see, is that many in Israel currently feel this was is existential, and that there is no option except winning to guarantee safety.
Yeah, right on man.
Or perhaps he is wise not to swallow numbers from the psychos at Hamas uncritically.
China don't want a bombed Taiwan, they want a peaceful unification, or nothing.
If they have to bomb the shit out of it, it's just a pcs of rubble.
But hey, you got to create a big bad China as the next "Threat to Freedom and Democrazy"
They want a “peaceful unification” in the same way that Israel want one in East Jerusalem or the West Bank. And if they don’t get one, they will eventually invade. There’s no creating a big bad china, they are big and bad. The fact they even want a “peaceful unification” of essentially a sovereign state they have no claim to, shows they are indeed big and bad.
Luckily they mainly need different ammo types. (For how the US would fight Iranian proxies) They are low on 155mm shells (for the howitzers/artillery) though. Think it was Lara Seligman who got them to implicitly admit that. Looks like I was a little ahead of the curve on the Iran comments, their proxies are continuing to ramp up random provocations in the region against the US, yesterday was Syria, today is Iraq, and it’s the constant prod prod. I think Biden is right to show restraint, but it can’t last forever. Eventually one of those rockets or drones will land and US troops will die. At that point Gaza might become a side note. They need to get the diplomacy going with Iran to say STOP now. Either that, or Iran really is losing control of the proxies and we have another problem.
The uncritical person here is you. This ridiculous talking point about 'fake numbers' has been pushed heavily in the last 3-4 days and you bought it hook, line, and sinker.
I've been talking about it since before it became a talking point. I've not bought anything. I never said they were fake, only that the source was an important consideration. Why you think the US president would rush to quote Hama's numbers, is more a sign of your credulity than mine.
It's been pointed out before in this thread, but the casualty numbers published by Hamas are generally reliable.
They have claimed killed Hamas fighters as civilians before, and are likely doing it now as well, but there's no reason to doubt to the total number of people killed, nor the number of children.
There were plenty of anti Iranian regime protests too...
The guy sounds really unhinged, think he needs a break from the thread.
Is this before or after the "500 people killed" in the hospital explosion?
Of course there is a reason to doubt, they are in the middle of a war. Numbers are weapons too.
Treat such numbers sceptically until they can be independently verified. And that includes the israeli side too.
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So how many do you think are dead so far?
And does that mean you doubt the 1400 killed in the Israeli side too?
I don't know, do you?
But I will say the Israeli numbers are likely to be more immediately verifiable.
I get not wanting to just take the numbers at face value and suspecting some measure of overestimation, the problem is that this very quickly turns into a dismissive attitude towards the number of casualties, and that's a dangerous road to go down. The scale of the loss of civilian life is devastating, that much is clear.
Based on what? A few of their claims have already been retracted.
I can go along with that. Hamas tactics here also drive those casualty numbers though.
Well done for noticing what verifiable means.
Hamas has been using the ray gun machine from Honey I Shrunk the Kids to hide their militants inside Palestinian children.
You’re saying that it’s more likely to be verifiable.
I’m asking based on what.
It's absurd to establish a double standard and think that it will work. Especially when you claim to be a democracy.
Same law for everyone or you're in trouble.
You've been questioning the numbers on the basis that they come from Hamas, and I'm telling you that they don't have a history of inflating those numbers, which is why people are willing to believe them.
If Hamas says 3000 children have been killed, then 3000 children have in all likelihood been killed.
If the last part of this post meant to be ironic?
I think that's true, but mainly because Israel are picking up the pieces in relative peace whereas Gaza is under siege, pulverised and half its population displaced. Information gathering's likely somewhat disrupted.
I'd also agree that Hamas has incentive to inflate figures. Should be said, though, that last time thousands died in war (2014), Hamas, UN and Israeli figures for the Gazan dead were pretty close (2,310; 2,251; 2,125 respectively). They did differ in the proportion of civilian/combatant though. Basically a lot more fighting age men were killed than should be the case in indiscriminate attacks.
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To be completely frank here, I literally couldn't care less what you doubt. If you can't do a quick google and find search out about Hamas, their charter and their mission... then I've no interest to spoon feed it to you.
Not supporting Hamas is a very easy bar to clear. If you can't do that, there's not much to talk about.
A good data point to consider. Numbers from both sides seem to be in the same ball park, therefore both the IDF and Hamas' numbers should be fair to cite, either independently or where available, alongside one another.
Agreed, which is why it is really not helpful that someone like Biden is publicly doubting the number coming out of Gaza. It's dangerously irresponsible.
There must be an election soon?
As many people over the years have said, this conflict is not comparable to other conflicts.
In regards to Iran, they are sanctioned up to their eyeballs and technically they're doing it to their own citizens while Israel doesn't see Palestinians as human let alone as citizens.
China as bad as they are have moved onto investing and developing Xinjiang by pumping billions into infrastructure, jobs and quality of life. I've yet to see Israel spend their own money on developing gaza or the west bank for the benefit of Palestinians.
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The geriatric US president is doing great in his role as a minister of Israeli propaganda.
You just said that goes for the Israeli side too.
I don't know either, no. But in lieu of hard evidence to the contrary, I'm generally going to take the figures at relatively face value.
It's dangerous to do otherwise. It's also no coincidence that people downplaying the figures are almost always so entrenched on one side that their viewpoint is often clouded by something akin to hatred. It's dehumanising. I was talking to someone last week who was disputing the numbers of Israeli dead and that Hamas had killed any children at all. I found it vile. What you're doing is little different.
Moreover, what point are you even trying to make? If it's 3k killed, rather than 5k. What does that actually change for you?
Goes without saying he's got his own agenda, I'm just referring back to it because that was what kicked off this discussion.
He's obviously not going to believe anything Hamas says, at least not publicly. What is disconcerting is that whatever the numbers are in the present, they are going to skyrocket once the actual invasion starts. I believe several of the hospitals have run out of electricity/generator fuel, which means everything from ventilators to incubators won't work, and with all the newly wounded needing treatment, hospitals will quickly turn into morgues.
Biden's clearly pushing for all those right wingers who haven't made their minds up about voting for Trump yet. He's almost become a parody at this stage - has all but come out wearing his own Make America Great Again hat.
And to me this is why I believe the US is the biggest obstacle to peace in the region. You can't hope for a just peace when you have a superpower acting as a mediator, absolving its proxy of any crimes, giving them diplomatic and military protection, and actively looking to silence, doubt and redirect the narrative on the suffering inflicted on the other side. The US could easily tell the Israelis to stop the occupation of the West Bank, cease building settlements and get back to negotiating '67 terms tomorrow if they'd wanted to. Until then, they're just as much to blame for the thousands dead.
No idea how anybody can think Biden is doing a bad job here currently. He's doing well.
Looks like he's managed to delay the Israeli invasion to flatten the entire strip, and is trying to at least talk Netanyahu into a more incremental, counterinsurgency. Unfortunately, neither approach will prevent casualties or a humanitarian catastrophe of people simply dying because they don't have adequate food, water, or medical care to sustain themselves.
Ofcourse if one supports Israel and their mass murderer then he's done a great job.
Israel is understandably emboldened to commit war crimes and atrocities against civilians because it's backed to the hilt by the US. There's no doubt this could all have been stopped if the US hadn't vetoed the ceasefire proposals at the UN. It's laughable that the US is being praised then for trying to be seen to negotiate and eventually achieve the very thing that was stopped from happening because of them weeks ago.