Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

gfactor86 said:
If Hamas returned all the hostages then Israel would stop the onslaught. They won't though because Hamas hates the 200 hostages more than it loves the 2m Palestinians that they claim to fight for
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0 Chance. Israel won't stop and the west will sit diligently and watch as genocide happens.
 
Carolina Red said:
Answer the question

Why do Israelis keep killing Palestinians in the West Bank?
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Because they are terrorist scum empowered by terrorist ministers, who know they can get away with it and the police are now not allowed to stop them.

Worth noting the Israeli public didn’t vote for these guys any more than Palestinians voted for Hamas.
 
2cents said:
Hamas have demanded his release in previous hostage negotiations without success. Have to wonder how much they might value him in future potential negotiations given the massive leverage they now have in terms of numbers.
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Is it in their interests?
 
the hea said:
There is a lot we can criticize the IDF for but this is not one thing. The biggest priority for both IDF, Hamas or any other part in any war should always be the evacuation of civilians.
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Sure, I respect that point of view. However, if they leave Northern Gaza, one day they will be forced to leave its southern part, and then they will never be allowed to come back. This is not a typical call to evacuate a place for some time after which they can return. If they leave, it’s OVER!
 
Raven said:
US saying it's not the right time for an investigation into the hospital bombing.
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Someone: Israel did the bombing.

US: HEY! Don't you dare say that, we did an investigation and Israel is innocent.

Someone: Okay, can someone else do an investigation?

US: Now is not the right time for an investigation.
 
gfactor86 said:
If Hamas returned all the hostages then Israel would stop the onslaught.
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Not at all. That would just mean we'll be back to where we were two weeks ago - With Hamas waiting just accross the border. Only this time, very few Israelis would be willing to take the risk and live anywhere near the Gaza strip. The meaning would be the abandonment of dozens of Israeli cities and kibbutz communities.
 
marktan said:
They definitely know that they can't remove Hamas, so framing it as such is disingenious. How are you meant to find 30,000 people in a population fo 2m? It's impossible. If things get bad they'll just blend in with the civillian population, I mean they're not an organised military and so have no armour etc to be identified with.

They're going to go in to take and occupy the northern half of Gaza, simple as. It's not going to blunt Hamas at all, who'll simply be replaced by another generation, it's just going to get them closer to removing all the Palestinians from Palestine.
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That’s why they have mobilized 360k troops and are launching a ground invasion. Hamas wont stand a chance against the amount of troops and firepower the Israelis are bringing to bear.
 
marktan said:
To take land, yes. Not to remove Hamas. As I've said, it's impossible.
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Taking the land would be obvious. They will get all the Hamas members eventually as there’s nowhere to hide in an isolated strip of land with no exits. The tunnels won’t save them and they will eventually run out of food and water.
 
Raven said:
This just reminds me of any other cover up.
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you can't be serious?

how much evidence do you need? It's pretty much been proven that this was a misfired rocket.

Even the aftermath you can see a tiny crater and a few burned out cars. Hamas declared 500 deaths within 10 mins of the blast.

spurious to say the least. I bet the actual number was less than 50. You can't really trust anything Hamas says
 
Raoul said:
Shouldn't be too hard to spot Hamas and IJ fighters given they will be the ones shooting at the Israelis.
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Okay, but what about the ones that don't shoot at the Israels? Or shoot and then run away? Or hide amongst the 2 million civilians? Hamas is not going to wage a conventional war against a vastly superior conventional army.
 
Carolina Red said:
In 2006
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Yes in 2006, just a year after Israel gave back the control over Gaza to the Palestinians, a significant majority (57%) voted for Hamas. A terrorist organisation that has the destruction of the State Israel written in their Convenant.
"The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel."

Carolina Red said:
When over 70% of the current population was too young to vote or not even born.
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Hamas doesn't care about democracy or elections. Though, this doesn't say anything about the support of Hamas in Gaza. Their support could be even higher today. Nobody knows as there were no more elections after 2006.

I can argue that without broad support, Hamas wouldn't be able to cling to power for so many years, build the sophisticated tunnel system, construct and fire thousands of missiles on Israel and prepare these atrocious attacks on October 7th.

I wrote yesterday that the Gazans aren't innocent due to voting and ongoing support of the terrorist organisation Hamas. I have been heavily criticized and even called a train wreck and psychopath.

The German population had been held responsible for the atrocities during WW2, AND RIGHTFULLY SO. The term collective guilt was created by the victors because it had been concluded the Nazis would have never been able to do what they did without broad support from the German population.

Now you tell me what's the difference to Gazans and their support of Hamas. Where do the double standards come from?

And again, to make it very clear. I'm not looking for the acquittal of guilt of Germans for the atrocities during WW2. Not at all!
But I'm asking you why do many here consider the Palestinians in Gaza as innocent while Germans were guilty.
 
nimic said:
Okay, but what about the ones that don't shoot at the Israels? Or shoot and then run away? Or hide amongst the 2 million civilians? Hamas is not going to wage a conventional war against a vastly superior conventional army.
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It definitely won't be a conventional war. It will be a house to house counterinsurgency with large amounts of Israeli soldiers occupying the two northern sections and calling in air strikes into areas where ground fighting isn't effective. There will significant casualties on both sides.
 
B. Munich said:
Yes in 2006, just a year after Israel gave back the control over Gaza to the Palestinians, a significant majority (57%) voted for Hamas. A terrorist organisation that has the destruction of the State Israel written in their Convenant.
"The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel."


Hamas doesn't care about democracy or elections. Though, this doesn't say anything about the support of Hamas in Gaza. Their support could be even higher today. Nobody knows as there were no more elections after 2006.

I can argue that without broad support, Hamas wouldn't be able to cling to power for so many years, build the sophisticated tunnel system, construct and fire thousands of missiles on Israel and prepare these atrocious attacks on October 7th.

I wrote yesterday that the Gazans aren't innocent due to voting and ongoing support of the terrorist organisation Hamas. I have been heavily criticized and even called a train wreck and psychopath.

The German population had been held responsible for the atrocities during WW2, AND RIGHTFULLY SO. The term collective guilt was created by the victors because it had been concluded the Nazis would have never been able to do what they did without broad support from the German population.

Now you tell me what's the difference to Gazans and their support of Hamas. Where do the double standards come from?

And again, to make it very clear. I'm not looking for the acquittal of guilt of Germans for the atrocities during WW2. Not at all!
But I'm asking you why do many here consider the Palestinians in Gaza as innocent while Germans were guilty.
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and then when the Western Allies carpet bombed Dresden and other German cities to rid them of Nazis, they weren't criticised. We didn't have 200k pro-Nazi rallies in every city.
Different times of course. But the principles are the same in war. Civilians die, that's what makes it so terrible
 
B. Munich said:
Yes in 2006, just a year after Israel gave back the control over Gaza to the Palestinians, a significant majority (57%) voted for Hamas. A terrorist organisation that has the destruction of the State Israel written in their Convenant.
"The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel."


Hamas doesn't care about democracy or elections. Though, this doesn't say anything about the support of Hamas in Gaza. Their support could be even higher today. Nobody knows as there were no more elections after 2006.

I can argue that without broad support, Hamas wouldn't be able to cling to power for so many years, build the sophisticated tunnel system, construct and fire thousands of missiles on Israel and prepare these atrocious attacks on October 7th.

I wrote yesterday that the Gazans aren't innocent due to voting and ongoing support of the terrorist organisation Hamas. I have been heavily criticized and even called a train wreck and psychopath.

The German population had been held responsible for the atrocities during WW2, AND RIGHTFULLY SO. The term collective guilt was created by the victors because it had been concluded the Nazis would have never been able to do what they did without broad support from the German population.

Now you tell me what's the difference to Gazans and their support of Hamas. Where do the double standards come from?

And again, to make it very clear. I'm not looking for the acquittal of guilt of Germans for the atrocities during WW2. Not at all!
But I'm asking you why do many here consider the Palestinians in Gaza as innocent while Germans were guilty.
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So by your logic, Hamas did nothing wrong on the 7th of October. Because the Israeli civilians did elect their government and the IDF have the broad support from them till kill, occupy, ethnic cleans?
:wenger:

FFS just close the thread, you are embarrassing yourself.
 
Cloud7 said:
They should not have voted for Hamas. Israel has a right to defend itself. What do you expect them to do in this situation.

I think I’ve covered all the talking points there
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You forgot the collateral damage part.
 
B. Munich said:
Though, this doesn't say anything about the support of Hamas in Gaza. Their support could be even higher today. Nobody knows as there were no more elections after 2006.
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I literally posted this to you yesterday.
Carolina Red said:
Ok, so you should really check behind what those talking heads on TV say before posting it here and using it to claim “so they’re not all that innocent"

Here’s the link:https://www.washingtoninstitute.org...gainst-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah

Your TV talking head conveniently skipped over this…
“In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for PA administration and security officials over Hamas—the majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending “officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units,” including 47% who strongly agreed. Nor is this a new view—this proposal has had majority support in Gaza since first polled by The Washington Institute in 2014”
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gfactor86 said:
and then when the Western Allies carpet bombed Dresden and other German cities to rid them of Nazis, they weren't criticised. We didn't have 200k pro-Nazi rallies in every city.
Different times of course. But the principles are the same in war. Civilians die, that's what makes it so terrible
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:lol:
 
Raoul said:
I seriously doubt that. They would simply swap hostages and the Israelis would still go in and remove Hamas. They are committed to doing this as there is by all accounts broad agreement in Israel that they cant go back to the world of pre two weeks ago.
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Do you think potentially Israel could be being dragged into a wider ground conflict with Hamas/Hizbollah and other Iranian proxies?
 
Will be interesting to see how attitudes change during the war. Especially if Hezbollah cause major damage to Israel.

you can expect to see celebratory rallies in a number of UK cities I should imagine. Will quickly get very hostile
 
“People are saying, we cannot live on the northern border, with Hezbollah less than 100 metres from us and that can cross the line in a few minutes and slaughter us.”
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gfactor86 said:
and then when the Western Allies carpet bombed Dresden and other German cities to rid them of Nazis, they weren't criticised. We didn't have 200k pro-Nazi rallies in every city.
Different times of course. But the principles are the same in war. Civilians die, that's what makes it so terrible
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Another poor post from this account, the false equivalence is just staggering
 
Cloud7 said:
They should not have voted for Hamas. Israel has a right to defend itself. What do you expect them to do in this situation.

I think I’ve covered all the talking points there
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Never mind - I missed the sarcasm.
 
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Zlatattack said:
Why shouldn't they vote for Hamas? They're territory is occupied - Hamas has a militant wing fighting that occupation. It's legal according to international law to militarily resist occupation.

Hamas recognises the right for Israel to exist. People like you called Mandela a terrorist too.
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He was being sarcastic. The last line makes that blatantly obvious.
 
B. Munich said:
Yes in 2006, just a year after Israel gave back the control over Gaza to the Palestinians, a significant majority (57%) voted for Hamas. A terrorist organisation that has the destruction of the State Israel written in their Convenant.
"The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel."


Hamas doesn't care about democracy or elections. Though, this doesn't say anything about the support of Hamas in Gaza. Their support could be even higher today. Nobody knows as there were no more elections after 2006.

I can argue that without broad support, Hamas wouldn't be able to cling to power for so many years, build the sophisticated tunnel system, construct and fire thousands of missiles on Israel and prepare these atrocious attacks on October 7th.

I wrote yesterday that the Gazans aren't innocent due to voting and ongoing support of the terrorist organisation Hamas. I have been heavily criticized and even called a train wreck and psychopath.

The German population had been held responsible for the atrocities during WW2, AND RIGHTFULLY SO. The term collective guilt was created by the victors because it had been concluded the Nazis would have never been able to do what they did without broad support from the German population.

Now you tell me what's the difference to Gazans and their support of Hamas. Where do the double standards come from?

And again, to make it very clear. I'm not looking for the acquittal of guilt of Germans for the atrocities during WW2. Not at all!
But I'm asking you why do many here consider the Palestinians in Gaza as innocent while Germans were guilty.
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Dude, the West German population was forgiven in fairly short order due to the threat from the USSR. The Western Allies (and Soviets) were also very happy to quickly rehabilitate and relocate actual Nazis who were involved in murder and slave labour if they proved useful to the Cold War cause.
 
20% of
Giggsyking said:


everyday a UK media outlet has to come out and apologise for misleading the public.
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If I were the Ambassador, I'd suite their ass and donate that money to Charity in Gaza. Just finding ways to dehumanize every Palestinian
 
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