Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Israel slams Greta Thunberg after she backs Palestinians in Gaza
https://www.politico.eu/article/gre...palestinian-strike-gaza-genocide-israel-slam/
The kids are alright
thats fair upto a point, but then you have senior israeli politicians (especially amongst the current mob in power) whove made clear their dehumanising of palestinians, so no wonder the soldiers act without restraint. some of the things that are being said to them now, as they prepare for the invasion, ramping up the blood lust, gives me the chills.
Yes, its well known that there was a revision under political pressure in 2017, but that doesn't negate the foundational purpose of why Hamas exists. Watering down the language to appear less embarrasingly despotic, then doing what they did 12 days ago, also don't align with one another. Nor do comments from its founder after the 2017 revision or other comments from Yahia Sinwar post 2017. They have proven themselves the same organization their founding charter sought to pursue.
Do you think anyone with something at stake believes that?
for all this talk of what may or may not be in Hamas's charter / constitution, this is Israels Basic Law - their constitution of sorts.
1 — Basic Principles
A. The land of Israel is the historical homeland of the Jewish people, in which the State of Israel was established.
B. The State of Israel is the national home of the Jewish people, in which it fulfills its natural, cultural, religious, and historical right to self-determination.
C. The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people
Basically legalised Apartheid.
Hardly the point. People were saying their charter called for genocide, it doesn't.
It's interesting how personal experiences shape people's interpretation of current events. In the Russia thread, it turned out that a tireless anti-German campaign from one poster was the result of the acronym "PIIGS" annoying a Greek. Now, the newest addition to the particularly enthusiastic Israel side is a German who is motivated by someone being mean 50 years ago.
Oh, I agree with the watering down, just for the sake of accuracy. I personally don't see them as trustworthy, in any way. At the same time, I have zero trust in an Israeli government that has members who share the very same ideas about the Palestinians.
Mate, before it goes any further. I'll copy-paste a post I've written about the same topic moments ago.
"Hamas actually amended its Charter in 2017 where it settles for a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.
"While implicitely acknowledging that another entity will govern the rest, it still doesn't recognize Israel as a state. It also laid off the racist wording describing the Jews as "pigs" and states that it's not a religous war against the Jews but against the "Zionist Project". Whether it was a first step to acknowledge the other or a smokescreen, is everyone's guess. Make out of it what you will and it doesn't matter anymore.
The Fatah is by far the better choice and more reasonable dialogue partner but it's exactly the one that Israel chose to marginalize while propping up and indirectly financing the other. The Fatah also didn't cover itself in glory in the last two decades and Abbas, who's now 88 years old and largely rejected by the palestinian population, is still in power. It's in dire need of renewal, but its political platform is something everyone can work with and on. "
Agreed on both counts.
Im sure their latest biggest terrorist attack in Israel's history puts their minds at ease when they have an updated charter to appeal to their on the fence supporters world wide.
I know who the poster is, but that reference got lost on me?
This wasnt the question
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Not sure if you’re saying that it’s because it didn’t happen, but here’s other news reports on it:
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...d-by-israeli-forces-in-the-occupied-west-bank
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...i-drone-strike-during-raid-occupied-west-bank
Must give props to @HTG who seems to be the only German poster who hasn’t looked terrible in this thread.
As of today, that distinction is correct. I had always assumed though that the end goal is annexation and population replacement by making the lives of the remaining Palestinians so miserable that the population withers away through exile. A death by a thousand cuts, which is easier for the international community to ignore than a quick annexation and expulsion.
Evidently, going by what we have seen recently it is still their main ideology despite softening of the formal wording.
Yeah. Couragous and insightful. She deserves an award for that.
Also, couldn't help but notice Meshal's "I know I'm full of shit, but am going to say it anyway" facial expressions throughout.
Found it interesting how the guy referenced the Soviets, Vietnamese, Algerians and Afghans.
Yeah, well said.
You have a way to put things in such a manner that hurt feelings are guaranteed.
Knowing that it might impact wars half a century in the future, I should probably stop.
It turned out that the European debt crisis was at the center of it all, with Germany receiving most of the blame of how the Union treated Greece's problems. The acronym refers to Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain, the countries hardest hit. It's a bit derogatory, and that user took it extremely personally. I couldn't really find any examples of Germans using it, though.
Much of this has to do with framing in US media, where outlets like CNN and others continue talking about what Hamas did, alongside horror stories from 10.7 survivors.
His calm matter of fact manner about the inevitable casualties is chilling and but notably honest. It shows the mindset we are engaging with. And more honesty, as hard as it is to hear, is required to untangle. The double speak from all sides is absurd.
That said, the lines about focusing on military targets rings very hollow after the initial attacks.
Didnt know Alexis Tsipras was posting on the caf
That was much needed post. She's not done only a great job but also shed a light on the mindset of the Hamas.
How so?
Egypt not too happy with appeals for them to accept refugees.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...rael-war/0000018b-4776-d614-abcf-ef7760540000
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...rael-war/0000018b-4776-d614-abcf-ef7760540000
It’s crazy seeing the disconnect between world leaders and the people they govern. Israelis in Israel against Bibi and the War. Palestinians protesting against Abbas’ leadership. Egyptians fighting against Sisi. There’s another protest tomorrow in London (there’s actually 2) and similarly we’ve seen the French defy Macron and the Germans defy their fascist-lite laws. There’s also a sit in of US based Jews in DC against the US position (as well as the poll above).
He may refer to them just for convenience sake or...he really believes that Hamas is a legitimate resistance organisation and he takes inspiration from the Soviets, Algerians, Vietnamese and Afghans fighting aqainst an invader/occupier.
The mindset of Hamas (ie. he brazenly lied to her face about targeting civilians) as well as the broader Arab mindset that they don't want to get dragged into a regional war based on a tragic miscalculation made by Hamas leaders.
I think what Israel is doing is creating a new badge of anti-semites which is rather unfortunate. This does not make sense anymore and the US are the bigger cnuts for vetoing the UN security resolution. Everyone can now see why Israel keep building settlements because the US nodge them on. The obstacle to peace in this region is the US
I am in my later 70's so I have a few years on you.
Not sure what the narrative is that you refer to?
My earliest memory of the Palestine/Israel situation was of my uncle telling me about when he served in the Palestine Police and of a friend of his from that service who (so my uncle claimed) later tried to arrest Mencham Begin when he came on a state visit to Britain as Israel's PM. Begin had been the leader of a militant breakaway faction (Irgun) in Israel, and apparently there was still an outstanding warrant for his arrest, from the 1940's which my uncle's mate tried to serve when Begin stepped off the plane. This story fascinated me, but I cannot remember the name of my uncle's friend, or even if this event took place at all, in fact I can only find a reference to Begin being arrested in September 1940.
My Uncle's story did however heighten my interest and as I was now in my mid twenties (and no longer believed everything my uncle told me) I took an interest in trying to keep up and understand what was happening in that part of the world and after the 1973 Yom Kippur war when Israel's eventual victory over three of the surrounding Arab states, changed everything for Israel, from simply trying to survive to becoming the continuing occupier of land in the West Bank (that took place in 1967 ) and a major player in the middle East.
At the end of WW2 it appeared that Britain was glad to get out of the mandate for Palestine (held from after WW1 up to 1948) at least my uncle confirmed this for me, when despite my ability to find things out for myself he continued to regale me with his exploits in the ME.
The hatred that seems to have been the only thing sustained between the parties on both sides over the intervening years, has a times seemed close to being suppressed (if not over come) but never has; whilst the 'to the death' emphasis which always seems to pervade beneath the surface in any of the attempts to search for peace is removed, it is difficult to see how things can get better, for either side... or indeed the world.
Yeah, the dogma rather than any politicking was mad. Usually they'd avoid that lie so close to it being proven thus.
You know someone is full of shit when they say we only focus on military targets but then took circa 200 people captive into Gaza.