Isn't this current course of action putting Israeli citizens in even more danger? There will be retaliation as a result of what has been happening and maybe that could have been avoided if the response was more strategic instead of barbaric?
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
Lebanon the country is not part of the equation.
Nasrallah acts either as he sees fit or in complete accordance with Iran.
It's hard to tell exactly just how great the symbiosis between Iran and its proxies (Hezb. and Hamas) actually is.
But Iran definitely trains Hezb. fighters, finances them, etc...
I tend to believe that Nasrallah won't do shit without being given the nod from Iran.
No, they probably plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza of enough Palestinians to make mowing the lawn more manageable. There won't be retaliation, because eventually what's left of Hamas will learn, that the harder you hit Israel, the harder Israel will hit back. The plan seems to be to strike a death blow to any remaining Palestinian hopes of statehood, dignity, or retaliation. Once you reach critical mass and are powerful enough, you can do what you like.
And they would argue that this is strategic and the most expedient way to cleanse Gaza of terrorists, and if it was barbaric you'd see far more deaths. Israelis are only in danger if the enemy has the capability to strike back. Their argument is that they are removing that capability in the most expedient way.
In what possible scenario is it Lebanon?
Edit - sorry that was rude. Lebanon has very little control over anything unfortunately.
Last edited:
I think it's the sheer amount of (by definition, innocent) children killed by Israeli action far far outweighs the amount killed by Palestine. And has done for decades. So I think many view the Israeli actions as far worse. We just see a lot less of the dead Palestinian kids.
Assassinating a person under protection of a country in that country is not going to go down well. They didn't choose to hide in Qatar for fun, its a big ally of the US.
A strategic response is out of the window.
Besides the need/want for revenge,
The thinking would be that there is no way to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth if you use a strategic response. Why do you need to wipe Hamas off the face of earth, and not make do with something less dramatic?
opinions will divide on this one, but the prevalent Israeli standpoint that I most often hear is that,
If you only go so far, if you let Hamas be after the war ends and let them recover [no matter if it takes Hamas 2, 5 or 10 years to get back to the strength, both politically and militantly, it has now],
this will mean that no single Israeli will agree to get back to living in those places near Gaza, and also places a bit north than that, that are still considered to be southern-Israel.
People won't trust the Army, won't trust the most sophisticated fence imaginable to defend them from being murdered in their beds or getting kidnapped again in the future.
It'll also mean that no Israelis will agree to live in the places right next to the border with Lebanon, fearing the same and much much worse, because Hezbollah is much more potent than Hamas (and seeing as Hamas shocked Israel with its capabilities, the thinking would be that Hezbollah are also much more dangerous than what one allows themselves to think).
So, seeing as the destruction of Hamas is the only option according to the viewpoint I described above, how do you go about that?
Air strikes, as destructive and deadly as they are, won't make Hamas gone for good. Civilians will die in abundance, and infrastructures will crash, but nothing more than that. What we've seen up to now in Gaza doesn't change much from Hamas's perspective.
They are not destabilized by dead children and flattened neighborhoods.
You want to topple them, you do what the US did with Saddam Hussein. You go in there, you kill all their top figures...
And then you're fecked beyond belief because you have to handle the mess that'll ensue.
Oh come on man. What have you possibly seen in thousands of years of violence in Israel/Palestine that leads you to believe that if one side hits hard enough the other side will give up? The absolute opposite of that is proved, year upon year.
I said "they would argue" and "their argument"
thanks for explaining
I've quoted the start to your message, which was what i was responding to.
You only use the word argue/argument in the paragraph after the para in which this appears, referring to what seems to be other points of view. It wasn't quite clear how much weight that second paragraph was carrying!
I've read some crazy takes in this thread but this is something else. Either my guy was a 4d chess genius (he was an avid chess player after all) or I've completely misunderstood the premise behind pan-Arabism.
Possible false flag killing 70 of their own
Can expect nothing less from terrorists!
You wouldn't put it past Hamas. I also wouldn't rule out an actual IDF strike - deliberate or not.
I've no doubt that both Hamas and Israel use blatant lies and misrepresentation to gain public support and sow doubts with the enemy. Both the 70 evacuees killed and 13 hostages killed were numbers coming directly from Hamas, as I understand it - needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. A bit like the baby beheading story suddenly "couldn't be confirmed".
It's been a charge levelled at multiple Egyptian leaders over the last 70 years, to be fair. Although I think Nasser is the only one who didn't receive that treatment, largely because he so obviously wasn't.
Obviously what we tried to do in order to protect our ciitizens did not work. The reality is that in order to do so we need to eradicate the threat of Hamas. And since Hamas hardly keeps its people seperate from the civilians of Gaza, it'll be pretty hard to do so without harming civilians.
Ah. Yes, IF they ethnically cleanse gaza and rout the terrorists, that's pretty much game over in my opinion. Refugees scattered around the world, no way back.
Possible false flag killing 70 of their own
Can expect nothing less from terrorists!
Doesn't have to be a false flag. Can just be staged video or AI even. Just probably isn't real.
I don't know the guy, but christ, he's hardly a decision maker or anything.
They are in Jordan, a stones throw away. Not sure how easy it'd be for the IAF to hook them up to their systems, but they are the right type. Might be giving the bombs and keeping the planes for now in reserve.
Carried GBU-38s and sidewinders for the nerds amongst us (the bombs of the types the IAF are dropping on Gaza)
I think you know the answer to this if you put emotion aside.
I'm almost sure that I saw him in the past in a documentary about settlers and kibbutz.
Yea it's just a great talking point for the fermenting mouth frothers. He's a 95yo probably half senile old man who never made it past Corporal. Hardly a decision maker. Soldiers probably just nod mindlessly.
Maybe it's a bit like Shutter Island, so they made him think he's enlisted to the IDF, but in reality, they are taking him back to the nursery home.
Yeah he’s got a case for being the only major Arab leader of the twentieth century largely untainted by the charge of collaboration with the Western powers, aside from perhaps the Algerian and South Yemeni revolutionaries.
The Onion still has it.
Why do people think that Palestinian murder and terrorism towards Jews in the region started with Israel? It seems to be the accepted view from the Palestinian camp and stated as fact, and I've not even seen @2cents push back on it much.
Maybe. But again, his opinion doesn't hold any special value.
Agreed, it's just an old racist.
That's great insight, thanks! Pallywood and the captured media
...
It's a stupid online thing - his photo with a gun came on twitter very soon after the Hamas attack, the caption was something like "this veteran is volunteering again to defend the country at 90 years old" then others did the digging and found he was in Lehi, possibly at a massacre himself, and was stopped from speaking to the IDF some years ago because he kept publicly praising the massacre and killing kids etc.
The only reason he's known at all now is because that first photo went viral, as you said, he doesn't seem to be important in reality.
Question I have is...would Hamas stop launching rockets regardless of Israels policies?
Don’t they have the destruction of Israel as an explicitly stated goal? Israel could stop all their atrocities and pull back their settlements, and Hamas in its current state would still have them in their crosshairs.
Edit: Seems like this was their original charter, which has been softened somewhat.
The more pertinent question would be would israel end their state terrorism and apartheid. The fact that they don't even draw the line at bombing hospitals suggests not.
No.
I haven’t really picked up on this as a contentious question in this thread?
(edit): I’m watching the rugby, will get back to you on the Bahrain question later (but don’t really have much to say on it)
Wasnt your solution to arm Hamas with nukes?
It doesn't seem to be contentious, but universally accepted. I feel that most people here think that Palestinian terrorism towards Jews in Palestine started with the creation of Israel, as a resistance movement. Which is incorrect to my knowledge.
If people are using this as a basis for their arguments ie. This is a consequence of colonialism and Israel, those arguments are somewhat moot.
Raoul was responding to a question I posed of whether people thought Hamas had something else planned. Because if they don't, it is hard for me to understand the reasoning behind their original attack.
I have heard the theory that it is coordinated by Iran and Hezbollah may get involved. But, I haven't seen anything that makes me believe this theory, though of course Hezbollah may join the fighting if their people get angry enough about what is now occurring in Gaza.
But, if Hamas made the decision to initiate this on their own, surely they must have had something else in mind beyond the initial attack.
Good debunkWasn't yours killing as many Palestinians as possible?