Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

The Israel PM referring Palestinians as Nazis. No. You are the Nazis. Mr Netanyahu, you will be remembered as the Hitler of our time.
 
jadaba said:
It's possible that if it became even more extreme and unpalatable that the dynamic would change, but my own guess is that even in that scenario Sisi wouldn't be seen as an enabler in their imprisonment, but one who didn't buckle to the pressure of enabling their permanent displacement, and the optics within Egypt and the region would be positive. He would will be seeing this as an opportunity to use the fact that Gazans cannot go anywhere as a way of putting pressure on Israel to ensure restraint.
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True- it can be argued both ways and I think we can safely rely on all parties in this conflict to spin it, if it happened, to their own benefit.
 
Raoul said:
A sizeable number of them are probably underground since they will need to stay alive if a ground invasion starts. They need ordinary Palestinian civilians to remain in place as human shields; a well known Hamas tactic.
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Didn't channel 4 do an analysis/investigation/report into this as well as some human rights organisations?

They found this not to be so true. Yet they has lots of cases of the IDF using human shields, where they directly put a woman, man or child in front of their tanks during attacks.
 
Andy_Cole said:
The Israel PM referring Palestinians as Nazis. No. You are the Nazis. Mr Netanyahu, you will be remembered as the Hitler of our time.
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I’ve been called a nazi about 800 times on Reddit in the last week, mainly by people who want to commit genocide oddly.
 
owlo said:


This post largely echoes my views, though I disagree with the last bit. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of either Iran or Russia actively involved in the attack.
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Is there not? Virtually all analysts and intelligence agencies are saying Iran was involved and ive said earlier in the thread it mirrors what they did in Iraq in the 2000s. Influence and disrupt.
 
Roane said:
Didn't channel 4 do an analysis/investigation/report into this as well as some human rights organisations?

They found this not to be so true. Yet they has lots of cases of the IDF using human shields, where they directly put a woman, man or child in front of their tanks during attacks.
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If you're running an extensive tunnel network under Gaza City - the densest part of Gaza - and are then hiding in it while your citizens sleep above then I fail to see how you can't be using human shields. The main weapon Hamas has isn't rockets, or bullets, it's the death of Gazans and the horror that rightly imparts in people.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
If you're running an extensive tunnel network under Gaza City - the densest part of Gaza - and are then hiding in it while your citizens sleep above then I fail to see how you can't be using human shields. The main weapon Hamas has isn't rockets, or bullets, it's the death of Gazans and the horror that rightly imparts in people.
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So destroy the tunnels. Israel have the weaponry.

Israel knows about these tunnels yet chooses to blow up hospitals and schools and buildings?

They're underground you idiots seems an apt phrase
 
Politicians are going to have a hard time keeping straight faces when they're laying their wreaths at the Cenotaph next month.
 
Roane said:
Didn't channel 4 do an analysis/investigation/report into this as well as some human rights organisations?

They found this not to be so true. Yet they has lots of cases of the IDF using human shields, where they directly put a woman, man or child in front of their tanks during attacks.
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They have a massive tunnel system right under the densest parts of Gaza city for storage of military equipment and bunkers for the fighters. They are firing rockets towards Israel from the middle of the city, you cant seriously argue that they are not using the civilians of Gaza as human shields.
 
owlo said:


This post largely echoes my views, though I disagree with the last bit. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of either Iran or Russia actively involved in the attack.
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I think he stretches the logic a fair bit towards the end too, but he clearly knows his subject matter and presents it well.
 
I think, given the civilian death count in Gaza, we can stop talking about Gazans as human shields for Hamas. It implies that their presence actually stops the bombing of a location, when that's clearly not the case.
 
hasanejaz88 said:


Was it any different for last Saturday? If no, does put some doubt on those claims. Of course, you can't ever trust the IDF to be truthful when it comes to Palestinians.
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Any information comes out from the IDF should be directly challenged and treated with scepticism, ANY information.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
If you're running an extensive tunnel network under Gaza City - the densest part of Gaza - and are then hiding in it while your citizens sleep above then I fail to see how you can't be using human shields. The main weapon Hamas has isn't rockets, or bullets, it's the death of Gazans and the horror that rightly imparts in people.
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Hamas seem absolutely fine with civilian buildings being bombed above them. Almost like it aligns with their agenda of martyrdom...
 
JPRouve said:
It's an interesting suggestion, I wonder who would be the best protectorate option.
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Some NATO countries that both Israel and Egypt (and by extension the PLO) can trust… prior to this week I’d have thought of France, the UK (+ maybe Germany, Norway and others in the EU) as such countries…

but I have huge doubts that the Palestinians would welcome Europeans if Israel continue with this brutality and the said NATO countries fail to distance themselves from it…
 
Roane said:
So destroy the tunnels. Israel have the weaponry.

Israel knows about these tunnels yet chooses to blow up hospitals and schools and buildings?

They're underground you idiots seems an apt phrase
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I don't think it's exactly that simple since they run under so many civilians but sure I agree! Nobody should be bombing hospitals and schools (are they?) and escape routes. The calamity currently being visited on innocent Gazans is an atrocity committed by Israel and it has to stop. As far as I'm concerned Hamas is absolutely complicit though, has intentionally provoked the current conflagration through its own unspeakable actions and simultaneously uses the lives of Gazans as cover and their deaths as bullets in the propaganda war.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
I don't think there's any appetite for any lasting restraint at all and it's fecking terrifying.
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I think you are right, there is something about all of this that tends to suggest, the terrifying prospect of the 'end game' is now starting.

In 1948 the surrounding Arab countries all threatened to "drive the Jews into the sea" as the state of Israel was recognised by the League of Nations. There was at that time no discernible 'real voice' for the Palestinians so nobody really knows what they wanted, it was seemingly just assumed they wanted rid of the Jews.
So, it started, one by one over many years the surrounding countries lost their wars against the Israeli's and in the process the Israeli's (illegally according to the 1967 boundaries) occupied a large slice of the West Bank. It was the Palestinians driven from their homes who really lost out not their Arab neighbours, as Israel withdrew. Since then the surrounding countries have dropped the rhetoric of 'driving the Jews into the seas' and have come to some arrangement with Israel.
Hamas's attacks from Gaza have been horrific and have given the 'green light' to Israel to start the 'end game'. It is now the Palestinians who could well be driven into the sea.
What or who can stay the Israeli's? They have known from the beginning it will come to an 'end game' and given their collective history especially from the middle of the last Century, its hard to see anything except 'fecking terrifying' times ahead.
 
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Roane said:
So destroy the tunnels. Israel have the weaponry.

Israel knows about these tunnels yet chooses to blow up hospitals and schools and buildings?

They're underground you idiots seems an apt phrase
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Its much harder than we logically think. I feel like Israel spent absolutely weeks in the (2006?) invasion of southern Lebanon trying to destroy the tunnels there: and largely failed:
 
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Andy_Cole said:
The Israel PM referring Palestinians as Nazis. No. You are the Nazis. Mr Netanyahu, you will be remembered as the Hitler of our time.
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He's barely in the top 10 evil murdering cnuts I the world, but you specifically choose him to be called hitler. I see you.
 
Andy_Cole said:
In response of him calling Palestinians Nazis. I see you too. Someone who accepts genocide.
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I certainly do not, as a look through my post history will tell you. I hate what is happening and if it were up to me I'd call ceasefire now, bring in humanitarian help and start negotiating.

But I think the situation is a little more complex than some are making out, and I'll call out hotheads who throw around foolish phrases, because it doesn't help.
 
Pintu said:
Some NATO countries that both Israel and Egypt (and by extension the PLO) can trust… prior to this week I’d have thought of France, the UK (+ maybe Germany, Norway and others in the EU) as such countries…

but I have huge doubts that the Palestinians would welcome Europeans if Israel continue with this brutality and the said NATO countries fail to distance themselves from it…
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I just can’t imagine any European leader sending troops there. It would be hugely unpopular domestically, and impossible to put a time limit on
 
I have a friend who is Palestinian who has lost contact with their entire family in Gaza. Beside themselves. They have asked for some time off from their employer, who has said they can have an unauthorised absence, but if it lasts for over 10 days they will have to report them to the Home office and they could lose their work visa.
 
NotThatSoph said:
In response to Netanyahu invoking the nazi comparisons. You're doing your routine today as well, huh.
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Contextualise all you like. This is what was said.

Andy_Cole said:
You are the Nazis. Mr Netanyahu, you will be remembered as the Hitler of our time.
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If you can't see that's ridiculous and potentially offensive (and believe me I hate Netanyahu) then that's up to you, but it's a valid opinion.
 
Drizzle said:
Contextualise all you like. This is what was said.



If you can't see that's ridiculous and potentially offensive (and believe me I hate Netanyahu) then that's up to you, but it's a valid opinion.
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"Free Palestine" is enough to set you off, so I do completely understand that a Uno reverse card would be a lightning rod for your dumb callouts.
 
NotThatSoph said:
"Free Palestine" is enough to set you off, so I do completely understand that a Uno reverse card would be a lightning rod for your dumb callouts.
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Thanks for your valuable input. You didn't respond to my point, so I'll assume it's because you can't. Let's move on shall we.
 
Drizzle said:
Who? Israel? Yes you can call them terrorists.

You can also call Hamas terrorists, and I assume even you do(?).

Russia, killer of 10,000 Ukrainian civilians? Terrorists. The US, killer of 10 times more Arabs than Israel since 2001 - also terrorists? I don't know.
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I was talking about the settlers. The ones in illegal settlements that have been terrorising the local indigenous population. You can deflect as always.
 
Wibble said:
Only because they don't want conflict with Iran as well. If it were true why have they blocked Qatar releasing 6bn in oil revenue?
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11101 said:
Is there not? Virtually all analysts and intelligence agencies are saying Iran was involved and ive said earlier in the thread it mirrors what they did in Iraq in the 2000s. Influence and disrupt.
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Obviously respect your opinions here whilst standing by mine, yours is probably the majority view.

NicolaSacco said:
I think he stretches the logic a fair bit towards the end too, but he clearly knows his subject matter and presents it well.
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where do you think he’s stretching? I think most of his points are logical and well evidenced. Perhaps the bit about Israel not letting Gazans return, but I think the ethnic cleansing attittudes are clear in this government,
 
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