Is that why I have a penchant for RW female nutters? TiL
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Margaret Thatcher fanboys! 
Israeli women are stunning, nothing wrong with pointing it out. Their government are the worst. Also nothing wrong with pointing it out.
She's of Iraqi descent.
I'll mesopotamia all over that face
Must use that on the missus later
Another schism incoming between Catholics and the church of the East. Don't blame me brother.
Worth a shot at breaking the ‘aul Euphrates dam though.
I can see someone making a parody of her in the porn industry. They did it ever so well with Sarah Palin.
Imagine not bothering to learn about a country and it's history you resort to simplistic epithets instead. It's so ignorant.
Israel ‘shouldn’t exist as a Jewish state,’ Amnesty USA director tells Democratic group
https://jewishinsider.com/2022/03/i...-amnesty-usa-director-tells-democratic-group/
I disagree with Paul O'Brien. But I respect his honesty.
https://jewishinsider.com/2022/03/i...-amnesty-usa-director-tells-democratic-group/
I disagree with Paul O'Brien. But I respect his honesty.
Think we have another live one here
Spoiler alert: It won't work.
I think when one hasbara troll logs off another one logs on.
I’m going to assume Paul O’Brien is not Jewish? If that’s the case it seems a bit arrogant of him to pontificate to American Jews on the nature of “core Jewish values” (whatever they may be) and dismiss the reality of their feelings for Israel because it may complicate his desired approach to initiating change:
The Amnesty official rejected a 2020 survey conducted by the Ruderman Family Foundation that found that eight in 10 Jewish Americans identify as “pro-Israel,” and two-thirds feel emotionally “attached” or “very attached” to the Jewish state.
“I actually don’t believe that to be true,” O’Brien said regarding those figures…
…“I think they can be convinced over time that the key to sustainability is to adhere to what I see as core Jewish values, which are to be principled and fair and just in creating that space.”
Theres a reason you don’t debate zionist trolls, they take you down to their level and then plaster the thread with youtube videos or articles of something completely irrelevant. As we have seen shitebag/fearful do many times.
I think the Israel that American Jews are attached to is one idealised democratic country that doesn’t exist outside of their imagination.
The real Israel actually despise them and their lifestyle. While liberal Jews in America might rightfully think “we are adding people to the Jewish family by marriage” the ruling regime of Israel sees them as “killing the Jews” by doing so.
The famously homophobic and racist minister Peretz actually said “it was worse than the Holocaust”
I think the way the American Jews might look at Israel and the Palestinians a bit like Europe are looking at Ukrainian refugees as opposed to refugees from Africa or the Middle East.
The Ukrainian refugees inspire pity, the African/ME refugees inspire distain. The Israelis "fighting for their land" inspire pity, the Palestinians inspire distain.
With every group, people decide their dividing line and dig in. With SO much information coming out from all sides, more information than would be possible to process, are brains just triage the info and just absorbs the information that supports its position.
Edit: apparently there are other countries that start with "U", who knew
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Uzbek refugees or Ukranian?
Ukrainian, I had Uzbekistan on my mind cos of something else. I'll go back and edit to stop confusion. Thanks!
Found a summary of the poll cited in the article -https://rudermanfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2020.01.30-ENGLISH-US-Jewry-Survey.pdf
It states: “While the bond with Israel may be strong, there is not unanimity on policy, or what it means to be pro-Israel. While 80% identify as pro-Israel, the majority of American Jews (57%) identify as “pro-Israel but also critical of Israeli policy”. This is roughly evenly split between those who are critical of “some” policies (28%) and those critical of “many” (29%). Less than a quarter (23%) are “Pro-Israel and supportive of the current Israeli government policies”.”
Also: “When asked about reasons for feeling less connected to Israel, “Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's support for President Trump and his policies” was at the top of the list with 39% saying that was “one of the most important reasons”, followed by the increasing power of the religious right in Israel (33%) and treatment of the Palestinians (25%) and settlements (24%). Few saw a lack of “mutual understanding or shared values” as one of the most important reasons; reinforcing the understanding that there is a deep common language at the individual level, which is not always expressed in the discourse between the two sides.”
That really doesn’t reflect my own experiences of Israelis, quite the opposite in fact. However that would be anecdotal. According to this poll from last year, 74% of Israeli Jews believe the diaspora and Israel to be of equal importance to the Jewish people (#8), 75% believe a “thriving diaspora” to be vital or somewhat vital to the long-term future of the Jewish people (#9), and of the 6% who responded “not very vital” or “not vital at all” to the above, just 17% cited concerns over assimilation as the most important reason (#9b).
That’s why I said “the ruling regime of Israel”.
In fact a substantial number of Israeli Jews are not Jewish enough according to the establishment.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/...jew-who-isnt-jewish-enough-to-count-in-israel
And this actually matters because Israel is one of the most religiously restrictive countries in the world.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...ously-restrictive-countries-in-the-world/amp/
Well you also wrote “the real Israel”, which is what I responded to. As a concept it’s obviously open to interpretation (I’d argue it doesn’t exist), but if “the real Israel” equals “the ruling regime of Israel” or “the establishment” for you then fair enough. Although I’d still wonder what exactly you mean by these terms? E.g. the current government is a bizarrely diverse coalition representing a broad swathe of Israeli society with many conflicting interests and approaches to most of the big questions which define politics in Israel, and includes parties determined to undermine the continuing hold of religious authorities, including the rabbinate, over aspects of civil law.
Yes the ”real Israel” was just to stress the opposition to the ”fantasy Israel”, the democracy bacon that I often hear about in the West. But it wasn’t directed at the people, but rather at the ruling regime.
As to the establishment/regime, for me it doesn’t fit into an exact definition. Israel is more complex than most so called democratic countries. The regime is the combination of all entities holding power, including the army, the government, the segregation agencies, the indoctrination apparatus, the propaganda branch, the religious zealots…
As to how diverse the current government is, I actually don’t find it that relevant. The fascist Liberman wants the religious racism against his base to stop but it doesn’t seem likely, and either way fascism against the Palestinians is more important to him and will always be the priority.
Bennet’s party Yamina (even after “proud homophobe, proud settler “ B. Smotrich has left) is still one of the most racist and colonialist parties that has ever participated in Israeli governments and I’d be surprised to see Bennet go anywhere near reforming civil law. The only reform we’ve seen so far was the one deepening the marriage apartheid, voted two days ago.
Adding an Islamist party that represent a negligible part of the Palestinians just because Mansour shares their ultraconservative agenda doesn’t change much.
The so called liberals in the government (Lapid and co) are just there to wash themselves form the “left smear” that has been casted upon them by the propaganda. They need to govern and participate in some war crimes to prove that they hate Palestinians just as much as anyone else. Regain credibility in “security matters”. Ideologically they are not offering anything, they’ve capitulated already.
Ok, that’s a decent if somewhat skewed attempt at a definition. But far too broadly drawn to support the claim that, collectively, these institutions “despise” American Jews and their lifestyle.
I agree it’s not really relevant in terms of the Palestinian question. On the question of Jewish identity in Israel and related matters of family law, conversion, etc. I’d say it’s relatively reflective of the wide range of views and debate on these issues in Israeli society. In fact I’d say these issues have more potential to aggravate cleavages among Israeli Jews in the future than the Palestinian question.
Fearless - Palestine Discussion
Killing kids in refugee camps now.
Usually what happens in apartheid or terrorist states. Israel is both obviously.
I can see someone making a parody of her in the porn industry. They did it ever so well with Sarah Palin.
She's done her own parody just to get The Corinthian's rocks off. Literally.
18 years since Rachel Corrie was crushed to death by the Israelis. She was there protesting and protecting Palestinian homes from demolition.
No clue what that was, but the scenery was nice.