Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Next they'll blow up her offices. Oh wait, that's already happened. :rolleyes:
 
The Israelis have arrested Muna el Kurd (the iconic activist in Sheikh Jarrah). She’s the one that recorded that fat cnut (‘if I don’t steal it someone else will’) and was in the Vice doc.
 
The only democracy in the region.

Isn't that what the West calls them?
Well, not the only, but the best by far.
People are getting totally hyped up with every incident there is.
Something like arresting a reporter is not a nice thing, but it happens quite often even in Germany - sometimes security forces are stressed and they react in a harsh way. And guess what, if you press charges in Germany there is hardly anything that the police need to fear.

So, will I demand a higher srandard from Israel - a country that has been under constant threat for the last 70 years?
 
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Well, not the only, but the best by far.
People are getting totally hyped up with every incident there is.
Something like arresting a reporter is not a nice thing, but it happens quite often even in Germany - sometimes security forces are stressed and they react in a harsh way. And guess what, if you press charges in Germany there is hardly anything that the police need to fear.

So, will I demand a higher srandard from Israel - a country that has been under constant threat for the last 70 years?

Let's.be honest there is no threat to Israel. Maybe in the early stages, but even then there wasn't really as key players from around the world had agreed to it's existence in the early 1900s.

And even if the early part is wrong then with USA at it's guardian, you think Israel has threats?
 
Let's.be honest there is no threat to Israel. Maybe in the early stages, but even then there wasn't really as key players from around the world had agreed to it's existence in the early 1900s.

And even if the early part is wrong then with USA at it's guardian, you think Israel has threats?

The Iranians and their proxies are threats to Israel, which would include Iranian support for Hamas. Even taking the Iranian nuke program off the table, they are still funneling weapons to groups operating on Israeli borders, so the threat is very real.
 
The Iranians and their proxies are threats to Israel, which would include Iranian support for Hamas. Even taking the Iranian nuke program off the table, they are still funneling weapons to groups operating on Israeli borders, so the threat is very real.

There won't be agreement on this I know but Iran is no threat to Israel. If it was Israel wouldn't have helped Iran during the Iraq Iran war.

The Middle East has a narrative around it that is not what it seems.
 
There won't be agreement on this I know but Iran is no threat to Israel. If it was Israel wouldn't have helped Iran during the Iraq Iran war.

The Middle East has a narrative around it that is not what it seems.

The Iran Iraq war has nothing to do with the present power dynamics in the region. Iran has been funneling weapons to Hizbollah and Hamas for some time, which have been used against Israelis, so obviously the Israelis are going to view Iran as a massive threat to their security, and that’s before we even get into the Iranian nuke program. The Palestinian issue aside, Israel has been the nation which had been historically attacked from the outside, so they are obviously going to apply a highly securitized mindset to anyone seeking to harm them in the present, which Iran by way of its local proxies, quite clearly does.
 
Well, not the only, but the best by far.
People are getting totally hyped up with every incident there is.
Something like arresting a reporter is not a nice thing, but it happens quite often even in Germany - sometimes security forces are stressed and they react in a harsh way. And guess what, if you press charges in Germany there is hardly anything that the police need to fear.

So, will I demand a higher srandard from Israel - a country that has been under constant threat for the last 70 years?

israel is held to far lower standards than any other country. No matter how many international laws they break their is no accountability. They kill with impunity while people like yourself give them a free ride to continue doing so.
 
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Well, not the only, but the best by far.
People are getting totally hyped up with every incident there is.
Something like arresting a reporter is not a nice thing, but it happens quite often even in Germany - sometimes security forces are stressed and they react in a harsh way. And guess what, if you press charges in Germany there is hardly anything that the police need to fear.

So, will I demand a higher srandard from Israel - a country that has been under constant threat for the last 70 years?

Oh good. Someone to discuss "every little incident". How many times has the German government attacked a Muslim mosque with stun grenades?

Or the following week blown up a high rise building containing the world's free press? All of this in the same fortnight.

Let's discuss three incidents of this great democracy, instead of whitewashing the other two. :rolleyes:
 


:rolleyes: Netanyahu is going to do his best to get someone in the opposition coalition killed. It worked the first time in 1995. I doubt there's a shortage of right wing extremists who're willing to do it given Israel's shift since then, even if he is legally prevented from pardoning Yigal Amir to get him to do it.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/olmer...tement-could-once-again-lead-to-murder-631991


I remember seeing something like this in January this year. Straight from the Trump copybook. It is going to be an interesting week. Is he capable of launching an attack on Gaza again or even Iran?
 
Well, not the only, but the best by far.
People are getting totally hyped up with every incident there is.
Something like arresting a reporter is not a nice thing, but it happens quite often even in Germany - sometimes security forces are stressed and they react in a harsh way. And guess what, if you press charges in Germany there is hardly anything that the police need to fear.

So, will I demand a higher srandard from Israel - a country that has been under constant threat for the last 70 years?
How do you figure Israel is the "best" democracy in the region? By my count, there are two countries that CLAIM to be democracies: Israel and Tunisia. I'm not aware of Tunisia denying the right to vote to a third of the population under its rule, so it would appear Israel comes 2nd out of 2, making it the worst democracy in the region.
 
The Iran Iraq war has nothing to do with the present power dynamics in the region. Iran has been funneling weapons to Hizbollah and Hamas for some time, which have been used against Israelis, so obviously the Israelis are going to view Iran as a massive threat to their security, and that’s before we even get into the Iranian nuke program. The Palestinian issue aside, Israel has been the nation which had been historically attacked from the outside, so they are obviously going to apply a highly securitized mindset to anyone seeking to harm them in the present, which Iran by way of its local proxies, quite clearly does.

Jewish folk have had more threat from Europe over time than the middle east. Iran and Turkey were first to recognize Israel.

Irans biggest "threat" is sunnis.

Like I said we won't agree on this and I currently haven't the time to go through the finer points, rain check on that one for another time if you're interested.

The notion of how govts perceive others changes depending on where you are. The narrative, if you will is different. Often proved by indirect action.
 
I remember seeing something like this in January this year. Straight from the Trump copybook. It is going to be an interesting week. Is he capable of launching an attack on Gaza again or even Iran?

When it comes to Netanyahu I can't rule out anything, but I'm sure anyone on a grand scale - like Iran - will be blocked by the ministry of defence and the IDF.

When it comes to Gaza, well, who knows. Rather than launching an attack there could be an attempt to cause friction which will get the Hamas to react and give Netanyahu "just cause" to retaliate.

Seven days and counting. :eek:
 
Well, not the only, but the best by far.
People are getting totally hyped up with every incident there is.
Something like arresting a reporter is not a nice thing, but it happens quite often even in Germany - sometimes security forces are stressed and they react in a harsh way. And guess what, if you press charges in Germany there is hardly anything that the police need to fear.

So, will I demand a higher srandard from Israel - a country that has been under constant threat for the last 70 years?
What an embarrassing post.

1) The best by far? You think a corrupt warmongering PM who's clung onto power, by hook or by crook, for the last 15 years is the best? Laughable.

2) Hyped up over every incident? What an asinine thing to say. 67 children have died. Approximately 250 civilians have died. They're under a military occupation and a blockade. What 'hype' is there? How should we downplay it, according to you, as it has soooo much hype to every incident.

3) Arresting a reporter is not a nice thing, well gee, nice of you to say.

https://rsf.org/en/news/israel-now-holding-13-palestinian-journalists
Two Palestinian journalists were arrested by Israeli security forces in Jerusalem yesterday and were placed in administrative detention today, bringing the total now held administratively by the Israelis to 13. Reporters Without Borders (RSF) condemns Israel’s misuse of administrative detention to hound Palestinian reporters.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-violations-against-journalists-rise-in-2019/1669651


There's no comparison with Germany, and it's a dumb arse equivalence to make.
 
It's laughable to consider the sole nuclear power in the region, with the most sophisticated military and boasts having the US as it's sworn ally and protector as being considered in any way 'under threat'.

As for Iran - a country that's in perpetual economic turmoil, being antagonised by pretty much all of its Arab neighbours and still hasn't full recovered from its devastating war with Iraq - to consider them a threat is equally laughable. Even if they did obtain nuclear weaponry, they're not as stupid enough to seal the whole country's demise by acting recklessly.

This isn't 1948 anymore.
 
It's laughable to consider the sole nuclear power in the region, with the most sophisticated military and boasts having the US as it's sworn ally and protector as being considered in any way 'under threat'.

As for Iran - a country that's in perpetual economic turmoil, being antagonised by pretty much all of its Arab neighbours and still hasn't full recovered from its devastating war with Iraq - to consider them a threat is equally laughable. Even if they did obtain nuclear weaponry, they're not as stupid enough to seal the whole country's demise by acting recklessly.

This isn't 1948 anymore.

The Iranians don't have to attack Israel by themselves. All they have to do is supply weapons to Israeli adversaries operating on their doorstep in order to be perceived as a threat. Simply supplying Hamas and Hezbollah has been far more effective a tool for Iran than the suicidal contemplation of a direct attack. Its simply an inexpensive way to attack an adversary with plausible deniability and the benefits of not being counterattacked.
 
The Iranians don't have to attack Israel by themselves. All they have to do is supply weapons to Israeli adversaries operating on their doorstep in order to be perceived as a threat. Simply supplying Hamas and Hezbollah has been far more effective a tool for Iran than anything resembling a direct attack. Its simply an inexpensive way to attack an adversary with plausible deniability and the benefits of not being counterattacked.
Irrespective, neither of those proxies are a genuine threat to Israel. Hamas can't do much harm then desperately fire the odd wayward primitive rocket that might evade the iron dome every now and then, and Hezbollah are mostly a civilian militia - who while proving adept at defending their own turf, are hardly to going to be a existential threat to Israel.

Almost every Arab state, Turkey and the US collective support for proxy militias couldn't even overthrow Bashar Assad in Syria, and that's despite his tired and disjointed military which pales embarrassingly in comparison to Israel's.
 
Irrespective, neither of those proxies are a genuine threat to Israel. Hamas can't do much harm then desperately fire the odd wayward primitive rocket that might evade the iron dome every now and then, and Hezbollah are mostly a civilian militia - who while proving adept at defending their own turf, are hardly to going to be a existential threat to Israel.

Almost every Arab state, Turkey and the US collective support for proxy militias couldn't even overthrow Bashar Assad in Syria, and that's despite his tired and disjointed military which pales embarrassingly in comparison to Israel's.

Firing rockets at civilian populations (some of which actually do land and kill people) is more than enough to be considered a threat by the Israelis, especially when they know they don't have to tolerate it and have the means to respond with overwhelming force. This is why Hamas' rocket strategy has not yielded them anything since they started doing it, beyond simply hardening the resolve of Israeli politicians to securitize further and respond with even greater force.
 
Firing rockets at civilian populations (some of which actually do land and kill people) is more than enough to be considered a threat by the Israelis, especially when they know they don't have to tolerate it and have the means to respond with overwhelming force. This is why Hamas' rocket strategy has not yielded them anything since they started doing it, beyond simply hardening the resolve of Israeli politicians to securitize further and respond with even greater force.
Look at the number of Israelis killed by Hamas over the years and compare it to the Palestinian death count. Israel's existence is not under threat. If it were, you wouldn't have scores of people from North America and Europe leaving their comfy western cities to setup homes there, often in proximity of angry Palestinians who've had to make way. Rocket attacks do occasionally kill, but they don't serve as an existential threat, nor do they remotely justify Israel's staggeringly disproportionate response.

The Palestinians having their territory chipped away everyday with settlements serves a far bigger existential threat than anything Israel claims to be at risk of.
 
Look at the number of Israelis killed by Hamas over the years and compare it to the Palestinian death count. Israel's existence is not under threat. If it were, you wouldn't have scores of people from North America and Europe leaving their comfy western cities to setup homes there, often in proximity of angry Palestinians who've had to make way. Rocket attacks do occasionally kill, but they don't serve as an existential threat, nor do they remotely justify Israel's staggeringly disproportionate response.

The Palestinians having their territory chipped away everyday with settlements serves a far bigger existential threat than anything Israel claims to be at risk of.

The issue of rockets fired into Israel isn't supposed to be a comparison to what Israel sends into Gaza. Its simply a pretty obvious statement that firing hundreds of rockets into a country is going to be perceived as a military threat by that country's population, which will then be used by politicians to justify a heavy handed response. If the rockets are sourced to Iran, then the Iranians are obviously going to be perceived as a threat as well.
 
The issue of rockets fired into Israel isn't supposed to be a comparison to what Israel sends into Gaza. Its simply a pretty obvious statement that firing hundreds of rockets into a country is going to be perceived as a military threat by that country's population, which will then be used by politicians to justify a heavy handed response. If the rockets are sourced to Iran, then the Iranians are obviously going to be perceived as a threat as well.
Israel's existence is no where near at threat though, which is the overarching point here. Hamas and the like will obviously be considered a security threat, but the state of Israel won't be vanishing because of a couple rag-rag militias being backed by Iran.
 
Look at the number of Israelis killed by Hamas over the years and compare it to the Palestinian death count. Israel's existence is not under threat. If it were, you wouldn't have scores of people from North America and Europe leaving their comfy western cities to setup homes there, often in proximity of angry Palestinians who've had to make way. Rocket attacks do occasionally kill, but they don't serve as an existential threat, nor do they remotely justify Israel's staggeringly disproportionate response.

The Palestinians having their territory chipped away everyday with settlements serves a far bigger existential threat than anything Israel claims to be at risk of.

Well said. Acting like this is actually a battle anymore just enables more crime theft and oppression. Battle has been done since they created a jail out of Palestine and set up the sky dome or whatever it’s called. By any international law this is just plain torture and theft. One rule for america and their friends and another for the rest of us
 
Israel's existence is no where near at threat though, which is the overarching point here. Hamas and the like will obviously be considered a security threat, but the state of Israel won't be vanishing because of a couple rag-rag militias being backed by Iran.

It doesn't have to be about their existence, it simply has to be perceived as a threat to their population. If it was about their existence, they could easily obliterate Hamas by way of a massive ground invasion and subsequent displacement of millions of people.
 
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Irrespective, neither of those proxies are a genuine threat to Israel. Hamas can't do much harm then desperately fire the odd wayward primitive rocket that might evade the iron dome every now and then, and Hezbollah are mostly a civilian militia - who while proving adept at defending their own turf, are hardly to going to be a existential threat to Israel.

Almost every Arab state, Turkey and the US collective support for proxy militias couldn't even overthrow Bashar Assad in Syria, and that's despite his tired and disjointed military which pales embarrassingly in comparison to Israel's.
I could equally say that Israel has enough reasons to feel threatened.

It's true, Israel is a regional superpower. But even superpowers are not immune to feeling vulnerable or threatened. (Clearly, Palestine have more reasons to feel threatened, but that does not balance out the threat that the society in Israel might be experiencing.)
 
It doesn't have to be about their existence, it simply has to be perceived as a threat to their population. If it was about their existence, they could easily obliterate Hamas by way of a massive ground invasion and subsequent displacement of millions of people.
I could equally say that Israel has enough reasons to feel threatened.

It's true, Israel is a regional superpower. But even superpowers are not immune to feeling vulnerable or threatened. (Clearly, Palestine have more reasons to feel threatened, but that does not balance out the threat that the society in Israel might be experiencing.)

So we can quash this nonsensical idea of Israel's existence being under threat then.

As for the security threat they face everyday - that's largely down to their own making. Turns out if you harass, oppress, and force Palestinians out their homes then they'll resort to desperate measures. Let's not forget that Hamas were formed in 1987 after Israel essentially destroyed the Palestinian secular movement and Hezbollah were formed in 1982 as a result of Israel's invasion of Southern Lebanon. Both these proxies weren't just spontaneously born out of an irrational hatred of Israel.
 
So we can quash this nonsensical idea of Israel's existence being under threat then.

If the Iranians develop nukes then Israel's existence will never be off the table, which is why they are going out of their way to go after top Iranian scientists and nuclear facilities, as well as shacking up with Sunni states via the Abraham accords.
 
This is the height of stupidity or hypocrisy. Israel has fought a couple of wars against the combined might of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudis and the PLO and beaten them comprehensively. Yet a bunch of bedouins with Katyusha rockets is an existential threat? Jokers.
 
When it comes to Netanyahu I can't rule out anything, but I'm sure anyone on a grand scale - like Iran - will be blocked by the ministry of defence and the IDF.

When it comes to Gaza, well, who knows. Rather than launching an attack there could be an attempt to cause friction which will get the Hamas to react and give Netanyahu "just cause" to retaliate.

Seven days and counting. :eek:

I may be wrong but it seems that some high ups in the IDF may be a bit more sensible than most politicians?
 
If the Iranians develop nukes then Israel's existence will never be off the table, which is why they are going out of their way to go after top Iranian scientists and nuclear facilities, as well as shacking up with Sunni states via the Abraham accords.
That's a big if. As things currently stand Iran don't have nuclear weapons. And even if they were genuinely pushing for them, the Mullahs aren't as stupid as to blindly fire away, knowing full well Iran would be turned to ash in retaliation. Its how mutually assured destruction serves to work as a buffer. If anything, as things currently stand its Israel's adversaries which should feel at risk of pulverization considering there's only one nuclear state in the region. Israel currently holds the balance of power - militarily, diplomatically (via the US) and also in terms of nuclear superiority. There's no way you could deem their existence to be remotely at threat in this day and age.
 
That's a big if. As things currently stand Iran don't have nuclear weapons. And even if they were genuinely pushing for them, the Mullahs aren't as stupid as to blindly fire away, knowing full well Iran would be turned to ash in retaliation. Its how mutually assured destruction serves to work as a buffer. If anything, as things currently stand its Israel's adversaries which should feel at risk of pulverization considering there's only one nuclear state in the region. Israel currently holds the balance of power - militarily, diplomatically (via the US) and also in terms of nuclear superiority. There's no way you could deem their existence to be remotely at threat in this day and age.

If iran declared they have nukes then the saudis and gulf states would collectively shit n piss there thawbs.
 
That's a big if. As things currently stand Iran don't have nuclear weapons. And even if they were genuinely pushing for them, the Mullahs aren't as stupid as to blindly fire away, knowing full well Iran would be turned to ash in retaliation. Its how mutually assured destruction serves to work as a buffer. If anything, as things currently stand its Israel's adversaries which should feel at risk of pulverization considering there's only one nuclear state in the region. Israel currently holds the balance of power - militarily, diplomatically (via the US) and also in terms of nuclear superiority. There's no way you could deem their existence to be remotely at threat in this day and age.

Nukes are definitely a threat - not just because they exist, but also because their existence could result in the technology falling into the hands of terrorist organizations. The Israelis are obviously not going to take that chance. So in the end, they are definitely a threat because if they weren't, existing nuclear powers wouldn't object to more nations getting them.
 
It doesn't have to be about their existence, it simply has to be perceived as a threat to their population. If it was about their existence, they could easily obliterate Hamas by way of a massive ground invasion and subsequent displacement of millions of people.

It doesn't have to be but Israel make it so, you just have to listen to how their leaders justify their crimes.
 
It doesn't have to be but Israel make it so, you just have to listen to how their leaders justify their crimes.

Both sides justify their need to take military actions based on their own set of perceived set threats. See Sinwari's recent Vice interview.