Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Raoul said:
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Idiotic terminology, but considering that AP News (after Israel had bombed their Gaza offices to rubble) have just fired a young journalist of theirs for being a member of Students for Justice in Palestine when she was at Stanford, I'd say the influence wielded by the pro-Israel lobby in the Western media is pretty disproportionate... Much like their bombs in Gaza, or police presence elsewhere in the occupied territories.
 
rotherham_red said:
Idiotic terminology, but considering that AP News (after Israel had bombed their Gaza offices to rubble) have just fired a young journalist of theirs for being a member of Students for Justice in Palestine when she was at Stanford, I'd say the influence wielded by the pro-Israel lobby in the Western media is pretty disproportionate... Much like their bombs in Gaza, or police presence elsewhere in the occupied territories.
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Watch the whole discussion that Raoul posted above

He clarifies and it's pretty much what some folk have been arguing here. Her whole "I'm offended as a journalist" was more cheesy and kind of proved what he was trying to say. Biased coverage due to influence is not a doubt
 
rotherham_red said:
Idiotic terminology, but considering that AP News (after Israel had bombed their Gaza offices to rubble) have just fired a young journalist of theirs for being a member of Students for Justice in Palestine when she was at Stanford, I'd say the influence wielded by the pro-Israel lobby in the Western media is pretty disproportionate... Much like their bombs in Gaza, or police presence elsewhere in the occupied territories.
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Exactly. He didn't really articulate himself well but it's quite clear Israel has a strong influence on western media. I do not understand how that is anti-semetic in any way.
 
Raoul said:
Its generally being interpreted as such, at least in US media.



Ilhan Omar made similar remarks and had to apologize for them.
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Again, just because something is accepted as anti-semetic is not good enough reason for me to think it is. What exactly is anti-semetic about Israel controlling media?
 
Saeeda warsi made a good speech and points in house of Lords.

Don't know how to post it off FB.
 
shamans said:
Again, just because something is accepted as anti-semetic is not good enough reason for me to think it is. What exactly is anti-semetic about Israel controlling media?
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I agree with you in isolation.

However, history has shown that conspiracy theories about Jews pulling the strings of finance were major green lights for persecution and pogroms against them. So I understand a modern reluctance to hint at their supposed influence.

That said, anyone who shouts "anti-Semitism" when the role of AIPAC in American politics is brought up can feck off.
 
Roane said:
I agree with some of those mentioned in you link but not so much with the Pakistani guy.

It's clear the influence Israel, probably via USA has in how reporting is done.

John Pilger proved it in his documentaries.
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The Foreign Minister mentioned "connections" in a very specific way that will 100 out of 100 times get picked up on immediately in the US. He should've simply said something like "the media are allocating disproportionate time to the Israeli view and not nearly enough to Palestinians", and no one would've batted an eyelid.
 
Raoul said:
The Foreign Minister mentioned "connections" in a very specific way that will 100 out of 100 times get picked up on immediately in the US. He should've simply said something like "the media are allocating disproportionate time to the Israeli view and not nearly enough to Palestinians", and no one would've batted an eyelid.
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He did clarify as the interview went on. Not very well, and his w instead of v pronunciation may be a language issue too.

And I have to say Israel's connections can't be doubted. The media specifically have pretty much all followed the narrative set by Israel and USA.

That's before you link into friends of Israel etc if you want a political career and such examples.
 
adexkola said:
I agree with you in isolation.

However, history has shown that conspiracy theories about Jews pulling the strings of finance were major green lights for persecution and pogroms against them. So I understand a modern reluctance to hint at their supposed influence.

That said, anyone who shouts "anti-Semitism" when the role of AIPAC in American politics is brought up can feck off.
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Jewish influence in terms of finance and banking is by no means a conspiracy theory, they were the pioneers I would say..
Still, in terms of anti-semitic, this has to stop seriously, every time israel gets criticized it's directly anti-semitic/hatred towards the jewish people etc which is complete bullshit, anti-semitism is a marketing tool created by the west and used by the zionist regime to control different aspects, one of them is media...
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Wow, I had no idea Zionism made people turn LGBT.
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Raoul said:
That's wiki for you.
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No, wiki is correct and these views are real. Long, but it pays to read the whole thing (Khamenei's website):

The Zionists have made some human communities sexualized by use of the media, cinema, etc.

Today, the focus of international and world propaganda machine is on eliminating spirituality, religion, chastity and pudency. This is a definite agenda pursued by the Zionists all over the world and they are intensifying their efforts in this regard, taking eviler actions every day. Look at the movies, stories and the like; observe how European women dressed fifty to a hundred years ago and compare that with [their clothing] today. Compare how the West and Europe observed sexual moralities fifty to hundred years ago with how they do it today. Look how it has changed. The moral corruption has reached a point where if you reject homosexuality you would be attacked. This is really startling. They are proud of immorality and nudity. They are proud of giving up sexual moralities. This precisely pertains to what we have in Hadith; that says true would be considered false, and false would be considered true. This has happened in the West, and the news and media empire is working against morality, and modesty with all the power they have, using all their capacity which— with the social networks and the internet—are a thousand times more [influential] than what used to be 15 or 20 years ago.

January 21, 2015

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/63...made-some-human-communities-sexualized-by-use
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Zionism has sought to destroy families for 100 years: Imam Khamenei

I would like to stress that you should focus on the issue of family at this point in time. The enemy – not the enemy of Iran and the Revolution, rather the enemy of humanity – has decided to destroy the foundation of family among human beings. This is divine tradition. Family is a divine tradition. The enemy of humanity – in other words, international capitalism and Zionism – has decided to destroy family since approximately a hundred years ago. And they succeeded in certain places. They managed to do so in those places where the people had drifted away from God. And they failed to do so in certain countries including our Islamic Iran, but they are doing their best.

These hard and late marriages, characterized with the small number of births, and what is referred to as “white marriages” – this ugly term which represents the darkest kinds of marriages – are all promoted in order to destroy family. The propagation of lustfulness and the destruction of modesty and sexual reserve are some of the enemy’s plans in the present time. You should include the fight against these phenomena in your plans. You should work on the purity and piety of this country’s youth and you should strive towards it. This is one of the best tasks. It is one of the most efficient methods for preserving and developing the Revolution and for protecting the Islamic government.

February 26, 2019

Promoting homosexuality has targeted family foundation in West

(...)

Western orientation towards the issue of women has caused intellectuals, thinkers and broadminded personalities to seriously question feminism which was formed tens of years ago. These intellectuals and thinkers believe that feminism was a trap for women and that it created many obstacles for them. This is a long story.

Another issue is the issue of giving value to decadent practices. For example, homosexuality becomes a value in the west and opposition to homosexuality becomes an anti-value. If a person, a government official, a president, and an outstanding personality is interviewed and if he says that he is opposed to homosexuality, this will be recorded as a negative point in his performance sheet. The moral environment has taken this direction in the west. Today, the situation is like this in the western world.

Of course, it will not stop at this point and it will be much worse and much more inappropriate than what it is now. Of course, some western thinkers and well-intentioned personalities have understood this and they constantly issue warnings, but it is of no use. When a system falls into this abyss, there is no way out and its fate will be nothing but destruction. This is one factor why western values have been challenged.

September 4, 2014

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/67...-destroy-families-for-100-years-Imam-Khamenei
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Is it just me that find the notion "If Israel govt wanted to, they could annihilate every Palestinian, but they didn't" as some sort of humanitarian act nauseating?
I mean if you tell a man that "we killed your wife and children, but because we're nice guys, we wont killed you", how the feck was that any better?

I think this just emboldened the idea that Palestinian is beneath the Israelis and is at their mercy.
 
Raoul said:
Its widely considered anti-semetic in the US and probably in most western contexts.

Here's a full list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canard
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Who cares what the US and the west "consider" Anti-semetic? Accusing someone of being anti-semitic is the west's buzzword or deflection to getting away with genocide in Palestine. This is how they deflect the attention away of what's really going on, which is ethnic cleansing and forced displacement. They can cope and claim anti-semitism all they want, they will always try to be the victim even though they are the oppressors.

The FM was speaking all facts to me. Do they not control the media? Let's look at small examples.. who owns facebook and instagram? Why did instagram have a "technical issue" with all the palestine hashtags? Could it be that head of instagram, Adam Mosseri is an israeli-american? They not only control media, they also control banking, sports (see who lot of these owners are... even look at our owner!).

Kudos to them, they are very successful people. But to say that advantage does not exist in how this genocide is being covered is delusional and more importantly IT'S NOT anti-semitic so please stop defending them as you're allowing them to play the victim card over and over again.

CNN is terrible by the way, that lady should get fired.
 
That Israel and jews outside it had always involved deeply in finance and banking at a global scale since centuries ago it is true. That they have influence in the media in a disproportionate way as percentage of worldwide population is true. That is a tight community that has lots of resources and are a powerful lobby is true

That is not anti-semitic.

What is anti-semitic is being persecuted during centuries for that reasons with the peak moment of nazism. I understand that there is the fear that calling them off for their powerful lobby can lead to attacking them disproportionately as in the past, but at the same time it seems that it doesn't leave space for criticism because you will be accused of anti-semite just for mentioning the reasons above in the slightest and that is dangerous because it gives immunity to an already powerful lobby
 
Raoul said:
Its generally being interpreted as such, at least in US media.



Ilhan Omar made similar remarks and had to apologize for them.
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Disappointed in Mehdi Hasan saying this but ofcourse he has to tread lightly as well.

I can immediately think of two journalists who were fired because of saying anti-Israel remarks that were made to be anti semetic.

Al Jazeera, where Mehdi works, literally made a documentary where they highlighted a member of the Israel embassy boasting about pressuring AP to change a headline to make it pro Israel, and how they do it for other media outlets.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in saying Israel has this control, to say Jewish people have it is anti-semitic.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
To be honest I don't even think it's a new thing, it's a continuation of stuff like the use of napalm and Agent Orange in South East Asia. I think the only difference is that the bogeyman whose insidious evil justifies the indiscriminate use of force has shifted from communists to Islamists. In British history basically every revolutionary war of the 20th century saw the same sort of thing happening, just obviously the lack of technology meant they had to burn Cork down manually to terrify the Irish instead of carpet bombing it.
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Yes you’re probably right.
berbatrick said:
precedent is maybe even older, but the reaction then of course was much more than a shrug

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/04/25/world/key-afghan-area-is-reported-lost-by-guerrillas.html

e - The fact that more bomb tonnage was dropped on Vietnam than in the entirety of WW2, or more on North Korea than on Japan, is one of those facts that circulates a lot in left circles, but not much elsewhere. It suggests that strategic/saturation/terror bombing is an integral part of war when one side involved has the superiority. I think @jeff_goldblum is correct.
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It crossed my mind but I was thinking the Cold War context might introduce to many other variables. Actually Israeli war in Lebanon in 1982, before the Islamization of the Palestinian movement, probably better shows there’s nothing unusual going on. Agree that @jeff_goldblum has it right in the grand scheme of things.
 
shamans said:
That's not anti semetic.
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Not anti Semitic at all. In fact I would call her out for incorrectly using the anti Semitic card to go along with the media narrative that we've all been discussing here. That's disgusting. CNN did you say?
 
hasanejaz88 said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong in saying Israel has this control, to say Jewish people have it is anti-semitic.
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Exactly, there are so many Jewish people supporting Palestine's cause and vehemently anti Israeli policies. Anything anti Jewish must always be treated as a religious slur, same with any religion.

No one calls out anti Hamas rhetoric as Islamaphobic because it isn't. It's political.
 
What a great setup it is to wield huge influence politically against the media and at the same time be able to claim any such suggestion is anti-semitic.

Countries do similar things within their borders all the time with patriotism but to have other countries enforce that is incredible.
 
2cents said:
Yes you’re probably right.


It crossed my mind but I was thinking the Cold War context might introduce to many other variables. Actually Israeli war in Lebanon in 1982, before the Islamization of the Palestinian movement, probably better shows there’s nothing unusual going on. Agree that @jeff_goldblum has it right in the grand scheme of things.
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The civil war erupted in Lebanon mainly because of the palestinians, Israel's war against Lebanon and its advancing to Beirut took a long time to happen, the palestinians already rallied under the PLO/Islamist banner from the moment they set foot in the country.
 
Raoul said:
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I'd say the only bit that really fell into antisemitic territory is the 'deep pockets' comment. I don't think there's anything antisemitic in saying / implying that Israel has a control of the narrative in the Western hemisphere. Even some of the stuff I posted yesterday is proof of that (i.e. asking CNN to publish stories using certain phrases or words).

As a general point, I think we're at that stage now where any criticism of Israel, certain groups of people will always scream antisemitism. It's become weaponised. The issue will be that it detracts and belittles actual real cases of antisemitism.
 
reelworld said:
Is it just me that find the notion "If Israel govt wanted to, they could annihilate every Palestinian, but they didn't" as some sort of humanitarian act nauseating?
I mean if you tell a man that "we killed your wife and children, but because we're nice guys, we wont killed you", how the feck was that any better?

I think this just emboldened the idea that Palestinian is beneath the Israelis and is at their mercy.
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Exactly. Add to it the "Hey, they gave them 1 hour notice to live on the streets!"

Sickening.
 
To point at the elephant in the room, because no one else did. (Context: Qureshi's and Hasan's statements.)

Jewish influence in terms of finance and banking is by no means a conspiracy theory, they were the pioneers I would say.

(...)

anti-semitism is a marketing tool created by the west and used by the zionist regime to control different aspects, one of them is media...
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The FM was speaking all facts to me. Do they not control the media? Let's look at small examples.. who owns facebook and instagram? Why did instagram have a "technical issue" with all the palestine hashtags? Could it be that head of instagram, Adam Mosseri is an israeli-american? They not only control media, they also control banking, sports (see who lot of these owners are... even look at our owner!).

Kudos to them, they are very successful people. But to say that advantage does not exist in how this genocide is being covered is delusional and more importantly IT'S NOT anti-semitic so please stop defending them as you're allowing them to play the victim card over and over again.

CNN is terrible by the way, that lady should get fired.
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That Israel and jews outside it had always involved deeply in finance and banking at a global scale since centuries ago it is true. That they have influence in the media in a disproportionate way as percentage of worldwide population is true. That is a tight community that has lots of resources and are a powerful lobby is true

That is not anti-semitic.

What is anti-semitic is being persecuted during centuries for that reasons with the peak moment of nazism. I understand that there is the fear that calling them off for their powerful lobby can lead to attacking them disproportionately as in the past, but at the same time it seems that it doesn't leave space for criticism because you will be accused of anti-semite just for mentioning the reasons above in the slightest and that is dangerous because it gives immunity to an already powerful lobby
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Again, just because something is accepted as anti-semetic is not good enough reason for me to think it is. What exactly is anti-semetic about Israel controlling media?
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What a great setup it is to wield huge influence politically against the media and at the same time be able to claim any such suggestion is anti-semitic.

Countries do similar things within their borders all the time with patriotism but to have other countries enforce that is incredible.
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Not anti Semitic at all. In fact I would call her out for incorrectly using the anti Semitic card to go along with the media narrative that we've all been discussing here. That's disgusting.
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Almost all of this went unchallenged, and this is only an excerpt of what happened on this page (and beyond). To be realistic, this is the new normal on the Caf, and tacitly accepting this hegemony has become the entry ticket for taking part in threads like this one. I have no desire left to fight it, I know a lost battle when I see one.
 
Synco said:
To point at the elephant in the room, because no one else did. (Context: Qureshi's and Hasan's statements.)


Almost all of this went unchallenged, and this is only an excerpt of what happened on this page (and beyond). To be realistic, this is the new normal on the Caf, and tacitly accepting this hegemony has become the entry ticket for taking part in threads like this one. I have no desire left to fight it, I know a lost battle when I see one.
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Indeed it's not a good look and it's one of the reasons why I refuse to delve deep in this thread. Despite all the things the Israeli government has done over the decades since the state's existence, the good as well as the bad (and the sometimes very bad), letting a Jewish consensus define antisemitism remains the correct position to take and will forever be the correct position to take. By defining antisemitism on our terms we're guilty of trivialising their experience of oppression, the same way we must never, ever trivialise the Muslim experience of oppression, which incidentally is exactly what plenty of right-wing Israelis and its supporters are doing right now.

It's a complex matter and the lines are admittedly blurred at times, but I'm sure the majority of Jews know full well what legitimate, justified criticism on Israel looks like and what antisemitism looks like.
 
The Corinthian said:
Over 63 children have died in the last week.

You're excuses for anything Israel does is pretty nauseating, and you're trying to crowbar what Hamas does as some sort of justification.
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And how many children died in Afghanistan or IRAQ? USA still bombed them to hell... and had a lot of allies on their side.
63 dead children are a tragedy, but they count for nothing - unfortunately.
The Corinthian said:
I'd say the only bit that really fell into antisemitic territory is the 'deep pockets' comment. I don't think there's anything antisemitic in saying / implying that Israel has a control of the narrative in the Western hemisphere. Even some of the stuff I posted yesterday is proof of that (i.e. asking CNN to publish stories using certain phrases or words).

As a general point, I think we're at that stage now where any criticism of Israel, certain groups of people will always scream antisemitism. It's become weaponised. The issue will be that it detracts and belittles actual real cases of antisemitism.
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There are enough media in the West and even many politicians who support Palestine rather than Israel.

If you say though that pro Israel leaning reporting is far more palatable to the general public in the West, you might have a point. So the reason for the prevalent narrative in the Western media might actually be that it's actually what their readers/consumers want to hear, read and see.

Going back 20 years it was different, but the suicide bombs killed a lot of sympathy for Palestine.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Disappointed in Mehdi Hasan saying this but ofcourse he has to tread lightly as well.

I can immediately think of two journalists who were fired because of saying anti-Israel remarks that were made to be anti semetic.

Al Jazeera, where Mehdi works, literally made a documentary where they highlighted a member of the Israel embassy boasting about pressuring AP to change a headline to make it pro Israel, and how they do it for other media outlets.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in saying Israel has this control, to say Jewish people have it is anti-semitic.
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I don't think he's worked at Al Jazeera for a while. He now lives in the US, is a US citizen, and works for MSNBC.
 
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