Is Ramos the most overrated CB in history?

I rate him quite high. He's not at a defensive level as the likes of Nesta and Maldini etc. but I think a lot of people underrate him defensively. Keep in mind he has spent a big chunk of his career playing next to Marcelo, who has to be the worst defensive fullback I have ever seen - he makes Dani Alves look like a world-class defender. Marcelo has no sense of defensive positioning and Ramos pretty much has to cover for him all the time - on the other hand, Marcelo is the best attacking full-back I've seen, but his terrible defense impacts Ramos a lot.

People mention John Terry, but I always found him a bit overrated. He's a good defender, but he's typically played at teams that focused on defence much more than Real Madrid does.

Another thing - Real Madrid seems to fall apart as soon as Ramos is not there. I remember them beating Juventus 3-0 in Turin. Ramos gets suspended for the next match where Juve has a 3-0 lead in the 90th minute. Their team really falls apart when Ramos is not there.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Real winning 3 CL's in a row wasnt because of their unsurmountable defense. It was because of that Portuguese dude up front.
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C. Ronaldo is a legend and the best player in the world today with Messi, but you do realize that:
- 2nd CL Final vs. Atletico - Scored the only goal of the game in a 1-1 draw
- Real Madrid vs. Liverpool final - C. Ronaldo didn't really do anything in this game - it was Bale that won it. Also, if I recall correctly, Cristiano didn't score a single goal in the semis or CL final. He was brilliant vs. Juve though.

Don't get me wrong - Ronaldo was a HUGE reason Real Madrid won those titles, but so was Ramos. It especially doesn't make sense to say Real won the 2018 CL because of Ronaldo, when he didn't score a single goal in semi or final.
 
InterFan1998 said:
I rate him quite high. He's not at a defensive level as the likes of Nesta and Maldini etc. but I think a lot of people underrate him defensively. Keep in mind he has spent a big chunk of his career playing next to Marcelo, who has to be the worst defensive fullback I have ever seen - he makes Dani Alves look like a world-class defender. Marcelo has no sense of defensive positioning and Ramos pretty much has to cover for him all the time - on the other hand, Marcelo is the best attacking full-back I've seen, but his terrible defense impacts Ramos a lot.

People mention John Terry, but I always found him a bit overrated. He's a good defender, but he's typically played at teams that focused on defence much more than Real Madrid does.

Another thing - Real Madrid seems to fall apart as soon as Ramos is not there. I remember them beating Juventus 3-0 in Turin. Ramos gets suspended for the next match where Juve has a 3-0 lead in the 90th minute. Their team really falls apart when Ramos is not there.
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Alves was a WC defender not sure why it seems your implying he wasn't.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Overrated as a defender. He can score a million panenka's, that doesnt change anything. Real winning 3 CL's in a row wasnt because of their unsurmountable defense. It was because of that Portuguese dude up front. As for Spain, we all saw how that went after Xavi and Iniesta got old.

Him and Pique tumbling over each other while Robben shot it past Casillas almost made up for 2010.

Almost..

Ramos is still a world class player of course, but you can be world class and overrated at the same time.

He's like the Heineken of football.
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To be the Heineken of football you must be shite. Which he isn't.
 
carvajal said:
To tease a bit to the overrated camp, what do you think - if we win la liga and beat City - to give him the Ballon d´Or this year? :) A great prize for his career
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I’d go for that... but I’m biased because I feckin love Ramos.

He’s an absolute leader, whatever his minor faults are (very few) he more than makes up for in character and leadership.

Only Spanish defender I love more was Puyol though, which im sure won’t sit well with you bud:)
 
Who would the Caf take tomorrow in their peak... Ramos or Puyol?

Puyol for me, just. I would just love to have a crazy looking barbarian in the centre of our defence, but what a beast he was.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Overrated as a defender. He can score a million panenka's, that doesnt change anything. Real winning 3 CL's in a row wasnt because of their unsurmountable defense. It was because of that Portuguese dude up front. As for Spain, we all saw how that went after Xavi and Iniesta got old.

Him and Pique tumbling over each other while Robben shot it past Casillas almost made up for 2010.

Almost..

Ramos is still a world class player of course, but you can be world class and overrated at the same time.

He's like the Heineken of football.
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Agree with all of this. Not the greatest defender in terms of actual defending but when you account for his key goals and leadership he is surely one of the best defenders, as an overall package, of this decade.

RUCK4444 said:
Who would the Caf take tomorrow in their peak... Ramos or Puyol?

Puyol for me, just. I would just love to have a crazy looking barbarian in the centre of our defence, but what a beast he was.
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Puyol. He was a great defender under Pep and for Spain from 08-10, also scored a key goal v Germany in 2010 as well.
 
Ramos is among the best in the world - to say otherwise is stupid. (And I really dislike the guy)
 
He’s a born winner and a true leader, there’s a reason he has countless medals in his cabinet.
 
Ramos is one of the most important player for Madrid, yes he isn't exceptional defensively but the qualities he brings to the team is something most can only dream of. He is superb leader and his ability on the ball is very good too.
 
Superb player with a huge winners instinct. One of the all time great (just take a look at his trophy cabinet). A character there is difficult to like if you not support Real Madrid though.
 
Maybe the best attacking cb of all time. Would fit Sheffield Uniteds system very well.
 
Incredible leader, clearly a phenomenal team mate and standard setter, an embodiment of Madrid, bold, arrogant, game-changing. A very good centre back, an extraordinary captain.
 
Peyroteo said:
2018 he looked pretty bad for the Liverpool goal tbf. Not sure injuring Salah and concussing Karius makes him a hero :lol:
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Effectively won us the game, so yeah. Hero


Btw even judging him on defensive qualities alone is tricky, because he's weird. He's not been very consistent throughout his career, there are games where he can be an outright liability at the back, but when he's fully locked in and in control -which happens more frequently than otherwise- he's absolutely one of the best defenders ever. I mean, just look at our tie with ajax last season. He alone was literally the difference between us winning 2-1 in amsterdam and them battering us 4-1 in madrid. A 4 goals swing based entirely on a single defender's presence. I'm pretty sure if you replaced him with any other defender in the world, even VVD having the season of his life, we would have lost badly in amsterdam as well. He was the only reason ajax scored 1 goal instead of 4 in that game

That's just an example. You can pick almost any game you want from our CL runs in recent years and see just how huge he was at the back for us
 
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I think hes a very good defender, with some holes in his games. Not a world class defender. But he has other attributes that make him so valuable to his team.

So he's a center back who isn't a world class defender but a world class footballer. Mind blown.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Who would the Caf take tomorrow in their peak... Ramos or Puyol?

Puyol for me, just. I would just love to have a crazy looking barbarian in the centre of our defence, but what a beast he was.
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Ramos by a mile. Always felt Puyol was super overrated. Maybe I'm remembering his later years, but feck me he looked slow and out of place at times.
 
kafta said:
I think hes a very good defender, with some holes in his games. Not a world class defender. But he has other attributes that make him so valuable to his team.

So he's a center back who isn't a world class defender but a world class footballer. Mind blown.
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Precisely.
 
One of the best of his generation, but definitely not of all time.

I'd put him maybe 2nd or 3rd in the current generation.

As a CB at set pieces scoring goals, he's the best.

Defensively there are better of course.
 
Siorac said:
:lol: The ultimate compliment!
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Ha ha was a bit tongue in cheek but probably true since they play such a weird system.

I do think ramos is a fantastic footballer though. The sort of player most people would love if he played for their team.
 
Ramos is a CB who plays on the left. For most of his career he shared that side with Marcelo and Ronaldo, two players who simply refuse to defend, in very attacking sides where the defensive line is very high.

What happened in different enviroments? In Spanish NT, or some Real Madrid sides (like one with Mendy and Vinicius in it) the team conceded very few goals. In fact, I read Real Madrid was the team conceding the least at some point this season in Europe.

So when you compare Ramos to the rest of CBs of his generation, or any other generation, please provide the context of the team they played for. Then we can start comparing.
 
lysglimt said:
Ramos is among the best in the world - to say otherwise is stupid. (And I really dislike the guy)
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Really? Doesn't he have something like 25 red cards for Real Madrid? Now I know some players will be more prone to reds than others based on style - particularly defensive midfielders like Keane or Vieira; but their numbers were never anywhere near that high (I'd also expect a top CB to have less reds than a DM anyway).

In a similar vein to me liking strikers that score goals, I like centre backs that can defend well and not get sent off.

Ramos probably doesn't make my top 20 in my lifetime (maybe not even 30), but seems to make quite a few top 10s for football fans. Pretty much the definition of overrated isn't it?
 
This would be an absurd thread even if David Luiz didn't exist.
 
jus2nang said:
Really? Doesn't he have something like 25 red cards for Real Madrid? Now I know some players will be more prone to reds than others based on style - particularly defensive midfielders like Keane or Vieira; but their numbers were never anywhere near that high (I'd also expect a top CB to have less reds than a DM anyway).

In a similar vein to me liking strikers that score goals, I like centre backs that can defend well and not get sent off.

Ramos probably doesn't make my top 20 in my lifetime (maybe not even 30), but seems to make quite a few top 10s for football fans. Pretty much the definition of overrated isn't it?
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Speaking of football "fans", i like how every teammate, every opposition, be it coach or rival players, rates him highly.
But of course, people online knows better than people who are actually participating in the game, its incredible, really.
 
A lot of people dislike Ramos for being a twat, so they will never acknowledge his status in the game. His resume speaks for itself.
 
jus2nang said:
Really? Doesn't he have something like 25 red cards for Real Madrid? Now I know some players will be more prone to reds than others based on style - particularly defensive midfielders like Keane or Vieira; but their numbers were never anywhere near that high (I'd also expect a top CB to have less reds than a DM anyway).

In a similar vein to me liking strikers that score goals, I like centre backs that can defend well and not get sent off.

Ramos probably doesn't make my top 20 in my lifetime (maybe not even 30), but seems to make quite a few top 10s for football fans. Pretty much the definition of overrated isn't it?
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Depends what you call overrated - I think Roy Keane was overrated as a footballer. If you look at his footballing skills alone, he was nothing special in that United-side. But what you cant take out of a player like Keane (and Ramos) - was all the other things he brought to the team. Ruthless, always gave 100%, never accepted anything else from his teammates, an absurd winning mentality - willing to do anything for his side - and the perfect leader.

Basically they are both players that make everyone around them give that 5% extra - and that is perhaps more valuable than anything.

170 caps for Spain at a time when they frequently were best in the world
Named best defender in la liga 5 years - 7 years in the UEFA team of the season
4 League titles and 4 champions League trophies
won the World cup, won the Euros...

He is hardly overrated
 
lysglimt said:
Depends what you call overrated - I think Roy Keane was overrated as a footballer. If you look at his footballing skills alone, he was nothing special in that United-side. But what you cant take out of a player like Keane (and Ramos) - was all the other things he brought to the team. Ruthless, always gave 100%, never accepted anything else from his teammates, an absurd winning mentality - willing to do anything for his side - and the perfect leader.

Basically they are both players that make everyone around them give that 5% extra - and that is perhaps more valuable than anything.

170 caps for Spain at a time when they frequently were best in the world
Named best defender in la liga 5 years - 7 years in the UEFA team of the season
4 League titles and 4 champions League trophies
won the World cup, won the Euros...

He is hardly overrated
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:lol:

Someone please ban me from this thread before I revert to my Ramos hating ways please
 
giorno said:
Effectively won us the game, so yeah. Hero


Btw even judging him on defensive qualities alone is tricky, because he's weird. He's not been very consistent throughout his career, there are games where he can be an outright liability at the back, but when he's fully locked in and in control -which happens more frequently than otherwise- he's absolutely one of the best defenders ever. I mean, just look at our tie with ajax last season. He alone was literally the difference between us winning 2-1 in amsterdam and them battering us 4-1 in madrid. A 4 goals swing based entirely on a single defender's presence. I'm pretty sure if you replaced him with any other defender in the world, even VVD having the season of his life, we would have lost badly in amsterdam as well. He was the only reason ajax scored 1 goal instead of 4 in that game

That's just an example. You can pick almost any game you want from our CL runs in recent years and see just how huge he was at the back for us
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I think that's more true for the more recent CL runs than it was in the past but in the last few years he's definitely had loads of monster defensive performances in Europe.

If there's one criticism I'd have for Ramos is that even though he's won everything at international level he's failed to have those sort of dominant defensive games for the national team that he's had in Europe for Madrid. Maybe it's because Spain also defend more as a unit so he doesn't really stand out but I still feel like he hasn't played at his best in any tournament for Spain. No big goals either that I remember.

If he had the same impact he had for Madrid's 3 CLs run during Spain's 2008-2012 dominance his legacy as a defender would be unmatchable.
 
Great player and the best centre back of the last 10 years. Thatdocumentary series about him was horrifically awful though.
 
lysglimt said:
Depends what you call overrated - I think Roy Keane was overrated as a footballer. If you look at his footballing skills alone, he was nothing special in that United-side. But what you cant take out of a player like Keane (and Ramos) - was all the other things he brought to the team. Ruthless, always gave 100%, never accepted anything else from his teammates, an absurd winning mentality - willing to do anything for his side - and the perfect leader.

Basically they are both players that make everyone around them give that 5% extra - and that is perhaps more valuable than anything.

170 caps for Spain at a time when they frequently were best in the world
Named best defender in la liga 5 years - 7 years in the UEFA team of the season
4 League titles and 4 champions League trophies
won the World cup, won the Euros...

He is hardly overrated
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I actually think he was underrated. When people talk of him, the first thing they bring up is his drive, his physicality, and his leadership qualities. Roy was a hell of a player. His passing was criminally underrated, the argument being he kept it simple. He did that to an extent, but he kept possession, he passed at the right time and always looked to pass it forward, plus he dictated the tempo. I always hear people mention the Juve game as his best, and that's fair enough, but he played 2 games for Ireland that for me showed his quality. One was v Holland and the other v Portugual, at them times both their mids were top class. Roy dominated the mid in both games. He wasn't surrouned by Scholes, Giggs and Beckham, he was playing with McAteer, Matt Holland and Kilbane. I think his stint as an angry pundit detract from how good a player he actually was.
 
InterFan1998 said:
I rate him quite high. He's not at a defensive level as the likes of Nesta and Maldini etc. but I think a lot of people underrate him defensively. Keep in mind he has spent a big chunk of his career playing next to Marcelo, who has to be the worst defensive fullback I have ever seen - he makes Dani Alves look like a world-class defender. Marcelo has no sense of defensive positioning and Ramos pretty much has to cover for him all the time - on the other hand, Marcelo is the best attacking full-back I've seen, but his terrible defense impacts Ramos a lot.

People mention John Terry, but I always found him a bit overrated. He's a good defender, but he's typically played at teams that focused on defence much more than Real Madrid does.

Another thing - Real Madrid seems to fall apart as soon as Ramos is not there. I remember them beating Juventus 3-0 in Turin. Ramos gets suspended for the next match where Juve has a 3-0 lead in the 90th minute. Their team really falls apart when Ramos is not there.
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If you look at the context of Madrids game you will realize how great Ramos is. In Madrid, until recently everyone attacks and Ramos has to deal with defence all alone. It's easy for a defender to excel in a defensive set up, John Terry found that out in 7months under AVB high line defence
Ramos has to cover Marcelo, Ronaldo and Kroos side of the field 3 players who aren't known for their defensive input.
IMO, Ramos is the best defender currently.

Regarding the red cards, most times its due to him trying to cover many of the defensive mess up of the Madrid side. e.g look at the red card vs City in the CL first leg. Varane and Casemiro decided to make a mess of an easy ball and Ramos had to foul Jesus
 
Ramos overrated? If you guys being serious, then thats the dumbest statement ever do be published on this site in the history of ever, period.
 
adexkola said:
:lol:

Someone please ban me from this thread before I revert to my Ramos hating ways please
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It's especially ridiculous because these days no one actually seems to rate Roy Keane as a footballer - whenever he comes up, the first things people will talk about are intangibles like "will to win", "leadership", "desire". Even if someone thinks he wasn't that good (which is bollocks, obviously) his footballing abilities can't be called overrated because they seem barely rated at all!
 
Sergio Ramos is definitely the most over rated defender of all time. He is a very good football player, but not a good defender. He is caught out of position far too often and makes mistakes that would make Phil Jones blush. I hear people talk all the time about his leadership and the fact that he scores goals, and that's great and all, but a defenders job first and foremost is to defend. Personally, I think he's been playing the wrong position this whole time. He should be a DM. Then at least he has people behind him who can be the last line of defense...
 
He is a bit like Roy Keane with definitely a much more decorated trophy cabinet. Not the best in his position but a true leader and indispensable for his team
 
He can’t be the best of his era when his never been part of an all time great defence in terms of numbers conceded, Vidic and Ferdinand have, Terry has, Silva has, Laporte and Kompany have to, Madrid on the other hand normally concede more amount of goals compared to these sides.
 
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