Is Ramos the most overrated CB in history?
- Thread starter deafepl
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25 red cards in his career
He deserves a trophy just for that
Kinell, didn't realise it was that many.So some bloke on the internet thinks he's crap... And a bunch of professional footballers and coaches have continually voted him one of the best players in the world.... Hummm
He’s overrated, due to the fact I constantly see him heralded as the best in his generation. Only defender who gets praised for his attacking contribution, as a out and out cb there are a few in his generation who were arguably better, luckily for him most of these few never got to play with the best player of all time at club level, and the best CM of all time at international level amongst others.
There are alot better defenders. But as has been mentioned, Sergio's will to win is second to none.
I think these two statements combined solve most of the riddle, and explain the amount of arguing over him.
Defending for a team as attacking-minded & defensively inconsistent as Real Madrid is another factor. (Although I can't really judge how his consistency for Spain was in comparison.)
I thought Pepe outshone him numerous times.
His career for Spain is overrated due to the trophies he won imo, I don't believe he was an integral player for those trophies and I think that overall he didn't have as big of an impact as he should have had. His greatness for Madrid is unquestionable though. 4 CLs in 5 years, could have easily been 5 in 5... that wouldn't have been possible without him.
Puyol was all of those things too and he's respected by almost everyone, not hated. The opinion fans have about a player's persona relates to their behaviour, not their skillset.
Ramos has kept his spot at Real because he's a colossus in some games, good almost great in most of the games that season, and poor in some games too. End of the season he's a net gain for the team, and like you say his character, leadership and personality are a huge plus to keep him in the squad. But on the pitch, defending, he's not at the level someone like Vidic had, or Nesta, Maldini and even Ricardo Carvalho, players that could also have monster performances at any given game, but without the downside of blowing a fuse and destroying a good result in 10 minutes.
His career can be summed up with his performance in the 2018 World Cup, what would anyone remember from him in that tournamen? That he scored the only goal against Russia, what's forgotten is that 2 silly mistakes from him costed us 2 goals vs Morocco, which could've eliminated us in the group stage, a CB playing for a minor team would be exposed for that performance, in a team that has the quality to overcome that deficit, not only you skip the guillotine, you get to live another day to be the hero.
I actually do agree that Ramos is not a great defender at league level, and some of his performances in Classicos in particular have been shocking.
However, his legacy in Europe is undeniable.
Real Madrid did have an all star squad, but it wasn't Ronaldo or Bale or Benzema who scored 2 header goals at the Allianz, or scored the 93rd minute equalizer against Atleti, or scored the opening goal in the 2016 final.
Ramos just felt like he lost games defensively for Madrid but won trophies for them attackingly.
Won everything on near repeat for himself and Madrid whilst leaving as a player we wont forget easily. Says how reliable his goals, attacking minded and captaincy was for his team and against everyone else when it really mattered.
Won everything on near repeat for himself and Madrid whilst leaving as a player we wont forget easily. Says how reliable his goals, attacking minded and captaincy was for his team and against everyone else when it really mattered.
Probably the most polarising player of our generation.
Purely defensive wise he is just above average, not even close to other great defenders.
But offensive wise he is class, always a threat on set pieces and really good at playing out from the back, leadership, mentality. I think his status increased because that late goal at the UCL final and some fans even rate him as one of the best of all time.
Personally I wouldnt even call him one of the best defenders of his generation but he is some kind of cult hero, so to answered the OP question, yeah I think he’s overrated.
But offensive wise he is class, always a threat on set pieces and really good at playing out from the back, leadership, mentality. I think his status increased because that late goal at the UCL final and some fans even rate him as one of the best of all time.
Personally I wouldnt even call him one of the best defenders of his generation but he is some kind of cult hero, so to answered the OP question, yeah I think he’s overrated.
Funny you brought up the Ajax game because didn't he get himself suspended for the second leg on purpose? Probably thought the tie was done and dusted and wanted to clear his yellow cards. And this was not the first time he did something like this.
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No, Bobby Moore is the most overrated CB in history.
One the most highly decorated defenders in the history of football. Scores important goals. Only real weaknesses is disciplinary record.
What more do people want?
Think some don't like him because he can be a cnut fairly often...
Yes agree, I love Puyol, absolute beast of a player.
Thing is though, I get your point about him being hot headed and a bit of a risk with his red card record etc, however I believe that if you took that away from his game and he lost that intensity he would not be the same player and any weaknesses he does have (not many in my opinion) would be highlighted all the more.
He's a bit like a Rooney type on the pitch, plays with intensity and aggressive style, I would love a player like that in our team right now. While that trait has it's inherit risk it brings so much more to the team on a daily basis that it outweighs the negative, it sets the tone for his teammates, let's the opposition know they are in a proper game today.
However I do still believe to say that he is more of a personality and leader rather than a top tier player is hugely under appreciating him.
When I think of the Real Madrid sides in the CL you don't see them leaking goals left right and centre, far from it IMO. This whilst playing as an attack minded side and not particularly defensively setup to help him - and he's performed time and time again, I'm sure I don't need to remind you of their back to back CL wins and that ridiculous run they went on in the CL, he was ever present.
94 goals and 31 assists in 640 games as a defender is excellent. There are offensive minded midfielders who would be happy with that.
ramos has taken 8 pens for madrid (and scored 5) - not including penalty shoot outs
his stats are still very good without them though
not quite hierro levels (135 in 610) for madrid
or career levels of koeman and passarella (253 in 763 and 171 in 580 respectively) but given he is much more a shit house centreback than any of those who were much more creative type players its pretty impressive
Over a 100 top flight goals as a centreback is certainly exceptional
he has 115 in 860 games for real, seville and spain (excluding seville B) - even if you take his penalties off (8 for madrid and 3 for spain) he still has over a hundred goals
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Master of the dark arts as they say. But yes most definitely overrated. As people have said going forward and scoring those crucial goals at important times will always make him look great. In my opinion John Terry was a better defender and VVD is twice the player.
Slightly above average defender. Good Footballer. Legend level winning mentality.
Basically the type of player you want in your team no matter what... and the type of player your opposition hates.
Basically the type of player you want in your team no matter what... and the type of player your opposition hates.
Slightly above average defender and just a good footballer, well, that is on your account. I agree on the last part, but mentality only takes you so far in modern football if you don't have the skills. He is not Lee Cattermole or Mark Noble. You don't survive at Real Madrid and win countless trophies by being just a good footballer. Sergio Ramos is many things, but he is certainly not just an above average player. He is extremely offensive and playing for a team that does not focus on defensive setups to win a game. If they did, he would look much more defensively accomplished on the eye. I have seen ridiculous comparisons with former heroes like Maldini, Baresi, Nesta, Cannavaro etc., but style of football at the time is always discounted as such. Low blocks of 442, players always in the same positions, no pressure up top, it was much easier to focus on plain defending - which they were masters at. If Ramos played for let's say Juventus the last ten years, we would certainly have seen a much fore controlled and assured defensive defender. But how many Champions League-trophies do they have compared to Real Madrid and Ramos? I am not a huge fan and don't really care about Ramos, but I will not regard him as anything else than a generational talent. Would fit in at any team and bring trophies both because of skills and mentality. His disciplinary record is way off, but the value for us TV-viewers is fantastic. When he comes in late on a yellow in the 95th minute against Messi's ankles, you know there is a message in there.
Mediocre defender. Good footballer. Nowhere near the hype.
He's been around a long time, and I don't think this would be the case if he was not performing well. He's a very good defender and gives 110% most of the time. He can get a bit over the top in his tackling when things are going against him, which is why he has got so many red cards, but I would rather him with me than against me.
Nah sorry, not buying it. Defenders can play in these high lines and look great. VVD, T.Silva, Kompany, Laporte have all at some point played in attacking sides with high defensive lines and have all looked accomplished defensively. He just hasnt hence his ranking is under question.
Real Madrid strangely have lower standards in defence than anywhere else further forward. For years they've subjected us to mediocrity there(Salgado, Helguera etc) and don't seem to care about it. Trophies keep rolling in while they care little about that area of the pitch.
The best and most impactful player playing from CB this generation, also the best captain with the biggest drive in quite some time.
He will go down as Real Madrids best CB and greatest Captain of all time. Reals Captain when they won 3 Champions Legue Titles in a row. Also as the most goal scoring CB in football history.
Even though he is a very controversial and (imo) unlikeable player i am pretty sure 10 years after his retirement he will be seen in the highest CB tier with the likes of Baresi, Moore, Beckenbauer, Maldini etc
Although i fully agree that he shouldn't be near that list based on pure CB qualitys alone.
But like a poster before already wrote he has the full package, which will cement his legacy as one of the absolute greatest once he retires.
Even though he is a very controversial and (imo) unlikeable player i am pretty sure 10 years after his retirement he will be seen in the highest CB tier with the likes of Baresi, Moore, Beckenbauer, Maldini etc
Although i fully agree that he shouldn't be near that list based on pure CB qualitys alone.
But like a poster before already wrote he has the full package, which will cement his legacy as one of the absolute greatest once he retires.
No.
Worthy bump.
When he is out of this Real Madrid team they are a shade of a team.
He’s the best cb of the last decade.
He’s immense. How some don’t rate him I don’t know. Imagine if we managed to snatch him in 2015? We’d have got 5 years of his excellence at United.
Getting close to a 100 club goals. That's mental
Because he scored a goal? Right
I say this as a newly converted member of the "Ramos is actually good" non-profit organization
I say this as a newly converted member of the "Ramos is actually good" non-profit organization
Really? How many goals does he have? I know he's been there forever, but that is indeed mental for a CB/RB.