Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

[Theonas]

It's probably soemthing to do with the £50m plus player in every position, 2 of the 5 best players in the world in their starting lineup, £50-100m bench players and the ability to discard £60m players like cancelo without any concern. Other than that though, it's basically like managing a mistake side

£50m plus player in every position: blatant lie, it's embarrassing.
2 of the 5 best players in the world in their starting lineup: Haaland is the only bought with that status and even that is arguable.
£50-100m bench players: We, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real, Bayern have similar cases.
The ability to discard £60m players like cancelo without any concern: We, Chelsea, Real, Barcelona, Bayern and I am probably forgetting few others have done the same with more expensive recruits.

 

[jm99]

£50m plus player in every position: blatant lie, it's embarrassing.
2 of the 5 best players in the world in their starting lineup: Haaland is the only bought with that status and even that is arguable.
£50-100m bench players: We, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real, Bayern have similar cases
The ability to discard £60m players like cancelo without any concern: We, Chelsea, Real, Barcelona, Bayern and I am probably forgetting few others have done the same with more expensive recruits.

De bruyne is almost certainly in the top 5 players in the world, im not sure who youre having ahead of him bar mbappe and haaland . If they don't have a 50m player in every position it's close isn't it? Haaland, de bruyne, Silva, Rodri, grealish, stones, dias. The Ederson and ake for 40m, then fair enough akanje and gundogan aren't. But thays just the champions league starting line up, other points where they'd play laporte or walker or mahrez you could conceivably be at a 50m in every position bar goalkeeper.

Got to be honest, it is quite weird for a united fan to be so defensive of pep and try and claim his sides don't have a financial advantage or better players than the rest of the league

 

[Theonas]

De bruyne is almost certainly in the top 5 players in the world, im not sure who youre having ahead of him bar mbappe and haaland . If they don't have a 50m player in every position it's close isn't it? Haaland, de bruyne, Silva, Rodri, grealish, stones, dias. The Ederson and ake for 40m, then fair enough akanje and gundogan aren't. But thays just the champions league starting line up, other points where they'd play laporte or walker or mahrez you could conceivably be at a 50m in every position bar goalkeeper.

De Bruyne is now one of the top 5 players in the world. He wasn't when he was bought and I am not sure he would be outside of their system but that's debatable. The point is there are half a dozen teams in Europe who boast similar numbers for their players, it's not unique. City's team is not cheap by any means but they're far from the only ones. Us, Chelsea, Real, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG could easily buy the players they bought and have a similar squad. They did not assemble it because they outbid everyone for those players or because those players were only gettable by them. It's the opposite in fact, they missed out on players to the likes of us and Chelsea.

Got to be honest, it is quite weird for a united fan to be so defensive of pep and try and claim his sides don't have a financial advantage or better players than the rest of the league

I was tribal in my twenties. Hated everything to do with Barcelona and the fawning over them because they were beating us. I even remember supporting Chelsea in their epic encounters back in the day. I am older now and maybe our decade in the wilderness helped me appreciate football more outside of my earlier bubble. I love United because it's my favorite stadium, history and majority of my favorite players are past United legends and Sir Alex is my favorite person who I have never met. That doesn't mean I will bend realities to justify the fact that we are this moment in time are behind, I feel too old for that.

 

[GatoLoco]

Source:

https://www.statista.com/chart/18001/transfer-balance-of-football-clubs-since-2008/

That comparison with Bayern, Madrid, Liverpool and even Barcelona that @Theonas points out at maybe should be reviewed.

 

[jm99]

De Bruyne is now one of the top 5 players in the world. He wasn't when he was bought and I am not sure he would be outside of their system but that's debatable. The point is there are half a dozen teams in Europe who boast similar numbers for their players, it's not unique. City's team is not cheap by any means but they're far from the only ones. Us, Chelsea, Real, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG could easily buy the players they bought and have a similar squad. They did not assemble it because they outbid everyone for those players or because those players were only gettable by them. It's the opposite in fact, they missed out on players to the likes of us and Chelsea.



I was tribal in my twenties. Hated everything to do with Barcelona and the fawning over them because they were beating us. I even remember supporting Chelsea in their epic encounters back in the day. I am older now and maybe our decade in the wilderness helped me appreciate football more outside of my earlier bubble. I love United because it's my favorite stadium, history and majority of my favorite players are past United legends and Sir Alex is my favorite person who I have never met. That doesn't mean I will bend realities to justify the fact that we are this moment in time are behind, I feel too old for that.

I don't think there are another half dozen teams like that. Bayern don't really have a top striker, real Madrid were relying on 2 35 plus year olds, we were playing with wout weghorst up front, Chelsea were awful, psg were weak basically everywhere except for Messi mbappe and neymar. That's why city won the champions league this year, every other top side was going through a poor year.

Its just that you're almost tribal in defending pep, I mean it's one thing to claim he's created a great playstyle or whatever, but trying to argue he doesn't have more resources than basically anyone else is just odd

 

[SadlerMUFC]

No doubt Pep is a great manager, but I could have managed the teams he's had. And unlike Pep, I may have even made a couple of subs

 

[Swoobs]

What would Abidal be sent off for? The English teams I guess knew they were inferior to Barcelona and did everything to make it about referees and not that they couldnt match Barcelona
If it wasnt Andres Frisk, It was Ovbredo. Chelsea players were going down at every contact and trying to gain unfair advantage which Ovbredo ignored

Fact is that Ovbredo gave Abidal a red card for a no contact no foul with over 30mins to go when Barcelona was trailing. This was somehow conveniently forgotten by the English fans

As did the first leg of that Chelsea tie, or that offside goal scored by Rooney in the 2010-2011 final. All forgotten

 

[Gomes]

In one thread it's argued that when Qatar takes over then nothing that United wins counts and everything will feel hollow.
Somehow Pep is still amazing for finally fumbling over the line for a Champion Leagu with City. What an amazing legacy.

 

[Swoobs]

You say this like 'failing to win the CL in 12 years' is some kind of weird thing. It is, in fact, the norm.

Only 20 managers have won the European Cup more than once. Of those, the vast majority won all the titles over a brief period (2-6 years).

The ones who didn't are Guardiola (2 in 3 years, then 12 years until the next one), Ferguson (9 years between two titles), Happel (13 years between two titles), and Heynckes (15 years between two titles).

The only manager who wins it 'regularly' is Ancelotti, who won it in 2003, 2007, 2013, and 2022. He's the exception, not the rule.

Zidane too. The only other potential GOAT candidate which people seems to forget, potential because he is won too much too fast. By the end of his career, he may have won more than Pep or SAF

 

[tenpoless]

As of April 2023.
Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool
Five Biggest Purchases
......

Jurgen Klopp greets Sadio Mane after Liverpool's Premier League match with West Ham United, Anfield, Liverpool, March 2022

READ: Sadio Mane, beware: 9 players that flopped after leaving Jurgen Klopp

Pep Guardiola at Man City
Five Biggest Purchases
......

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No doubt Pep is a great manager, but I could have managed the teams he's had. And unlike Pep, I may have even made a couple of subs

You could not have done what he did at Barcelona. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The myth that City have 2 world class players in every position really needs to die on here.

I saw someone argue they have the best squad ever. They're not even the best City squad with Pep. And there's teams in the past decade with a better squad than them.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

You say this like 'failing to win the CL in 12 years' is some kind of weird thing. It is, in fact, the norm.

Only 20 managers have won the European Cup more than once. Of those, the vast majority won all the titles over a brief period (2-6 years).

The ones who didn't are Guardiola (2 in 3 years, then 12 years until the next one), Ferguson (9 years between two titles), Happel (13 years between two titles), and Heynckes (15 years between two titles).

The only manager who wins it 'regularly' is Ancelotti, who won it in 2003, 2007, 2013, and 2022. He's the exception, not the rule.

Sure, if not for the rhetoric of Pep being Jesus of football.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

Real Madrid and Barca getting the chunk of Laliga money is what? Gaining advantage. No? I have heard the arguments around financial impropriety from different quarters as well as the rebuttal from City that the rules were introduced to hamstring them and protect interests and that when they were seen to be on the way to meeting the allowed loss position set, the goalposts were changed in the course of the season. They eventually got punished and from that point on, the claims and counter claims have been rife.

I can only conclude that City should be given a 5 years ban and asked to re-start in a lower division if they are convicted. When I speak of advantage, I’m talking purely in terms of sales and purchases and what happens on the pitch. What have City spent that Chelsea and United haven’t? The investment of money externallyp is not wrong but doing so shadily is and so I recommend the punishment above if they are convicted. Newcastle just got bought and they need investments to take them to the place where they can compete with the top clubs in the premier league. Personally I would have wished to the contrary but this sort of external investment and the resultant competition it brings only makes the league better.

SAF is goated for me because of what he was able to achieve during his time and as you mention he is retired now and so he clearly is not one of the managers in this current period. Zizou however is very much part of this period and unless you show me where he indicated that he has retired, I wouldn’t take your word, if you are making such a claim. Achieving success is one thing but doing so consistently and currently is another. Zizou has three UCL titles in his kitty - very impressive but how many 38 game league titles has he got? He is probably waiting for the France NT job to become available but unfortunately Deschamps has it on lock down. It’s one thing to be approached by 10 clubs and you pick one and another thing for you to be approached by 10 clubs and you are holding out for one that isn’t available. I wouldn’t GOAT such a man. Or maybe I should ask you, what is his reason for being on leave for a protracted time despite being in active service? For the record I consider SAF as the all time great (feel free to disagree I know you may judge accuse me of bias, but it’s fine) and I consider Pep as the best currently (call me an ass licker, it’s also fine).

Pep won the treble and UCL twice at Barca. I know people try to downplay that feat (wrongly) but if you downplay that feat, you have unintentionally also downplayed Zizou’s achievements too. Pep had underwhelmed in the UCL over the years but nobody has been a clear winner in this period. Maybe Zizou would have been if he decided to keep at it but taking a prolonged leave whilst in service hasn’t done him any favours.

Are you seriously comparing chunk of La Liga money with a State owning a club, artificially inflating clubs revenue, and pouring its assets into the club with window-dressing? Besides official figures, you should ask yourself how much additional assets have been invested in the dark. You don`t consider that as an ethically problematic advantage? In the age of FPP?

Such a strange argument to make, that Zidane who did the unprecedented should not be in goat discussion because he won it to fast. Fascinating. He did the unthinkable and with the biggest club ever. Probably hard to find motivation to continue at club level. While second argument being, who exactly to train after Madrid? Italians are trash. Premiership outside of City is poor. The only options i see is FC Hollywood with decline, and Tik Tok influencer QSG. Domestically he would have swept and added more titles to his CV, while in CL with right moves and Mbappe he would probably have a serious shot for another CL in the span of few years.

I don`t see how i would downplay Zizu`s insane run, even if i had downplayed Pep`s feats. I am downplaying rhetoric of Pep being Jesus of football not him being a great coach producing great achievements.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

I still don't know why people have convinced themselves that Manchester City have some kind of incredible squad that no one could ever compete with.

We had two Italian teams in the semis. Club level in 22/23 was weak as frack.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

De bruyne is almost certainly in the top 5 players in the world, im not sure who youre having ahead of him bar mbappe and haaland . If they don't have a 50m player in every position it's close isn't it? Haaland, de bruyne, Silva, Rodri, grealish, stones, dias.

None of these players would get anywhere close to a 'top 50 players ever' list and never will. Unlike, say, Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Modric, and others.

They are very good players but that's it.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

This is the selective criticism of Guardiola. Yesterday he has the unprecedented advantage of signing another CB after a 'flop' like John Stones. Today he has the unprecedented advantage of having a wonderful player like John Stones in his squad.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I don't think there are another half dozen teams like that. real Madrid were relying on 2 35 plus year olds.

Real Madrid were relying on two Balon d'Or winners, including the reigning holder. Unsurmountable circumstances.

we were playing with wout weghorst up front

Manchester United spent over 100 million euros on purchasing Raphael Varane and Casemiro from Real Madrid, both are 4-time CL winners and one won the World Cup.

That is closer to what normal people see as "financial advantages": buying actual, proven, 'best players in the world at their position.'

 

[Gentleman Jim]

i'd say no. He has never done what fergie did, and actually build a squad without infinite money.

He's also done a few things Fergie hasn't. He's not had infinite money (a lot of money is true) but quite a few of his players came quite affordably (Akanji, Gundogan, G Jesus. Zinchenko, Alvarez, Ortega etc).
Ferguson was head and shoulders above Pep in some aspects of Management but the same is true in reverse.

 

[Stacks]

He's also done a few things Fergie hasn't. He's not had infinite money (a lot of money is true) but quite a few of his players came quite affordably (Akanji, Gundogan, G Jesus. Zinchenko, Alvarez, Ortega etc).
Ferguson was head and shoulders above Pep in some aspects of Management but the same is true in reverse.

True but it still relied on insane spending to build said squad and have these options. Pep a better coach, Ferguson a better manager. Pep has one of the best philosophies in football history

 

[Bearded One]

It's probably soemthing to do with the £50m plus player in every position, 2 of the 5 best players in the world in their starting lineup, £50-100m bench players and the ability to discard £60m players like cancelo without any concern. Other than that though, it's basically like managing a mistake side

We have Lisandro, Wan-Bisaka, Maguire, Fred, Bruno, Casemiro, Antony, Sancho who went for around the price you mentioned. Not counting players that didn’t work really out like Pogba and Lukaku so this is pot calling kettle black. For Chelsea we have Arizabalaga, Cucurella (outbid city), Chilwell, Fofana, Enzo, Sterling, Havertz. Not to mention the ones that didn’t really work out like Morata, Lijaku

I don't think there are another half dozen teams like that. Bayern don't really have a top striker, real Madrid were relying on 2 35 plus year olds, we were playing with wout weghorst up front, Chelsea were awful, psg were weak basically everywhere except for Messi mbappe and neymar. That's why city won the champions league this year, every other top side was going through a poor year.

Its just that you're almost tribal in defending pep, I mean it's one thing to claim he's created a great playstyle or whatever, but trying to argue he doesn't have more resources than basically anyone else is just odd

Bayern don’t have an established striker but they more than make up for it with their numerous wide and central attackers like Mane, Coman, Sane, Musiala, Muller, Gnarbry. In fact Klopp used to play Mane as CF when Dias and Salah were lighting up the league for Liverpool. That excuse is not a good one lets just say it’s not worked for Bayern just yet simple because they have a very star studded squad and City still lost their only viable left back to them. City couldn’t get Kane and then bide their time and got Haaland on a platter when your higher-ups were busy doing nothing as Ole said.

RM have the old guard mixed with the new. Valverde is very good and so is Tchoumeni then Camavinga. These are some of the best young midfielders today. If Carlo has to depend on the old guys that’s he’s call. Same way we brought Wout in after a very good World Cup campaign but it didn’t work. RM bought Hazard but we see how that has gone but everyone is silent because RM are our darlings but we wouldn’t hear the last of it if it was Pep. If we had bought well maybe we would have Haaland instead of Lukaku couple of years ago. Chelsea are their own undoing. They have everything it takes to conquer Europe. PSG apart from having those three players who are the cream of the crop they have Hakimi one of the best full backs in the game, Veratti, Nuno, Donarumma, etc. they simply haven’t managed their resources and their talent well.

Are you seriously comparing chunk of La Liga money with a State owning a club, artificially inflating clubs revenue, and pouring its assets into the club with window-dressing? Besides official figures, you should ask yourself how much additional assets have been invested in the dark. You don`t consider that as an ethically problematic advantage? In the age of FPP?

Such a strange argument to make, that Zidane who did the unprecedented should not be in goat discussion because he won it to fast. Fascinating. He did the unthinkable and with the biggest club ever. Probably hard to find motivation to continue at club level. While second argument being, who exactly to train after Madrid? Italians are trash. Premiership outside of City is poor. The only options i see is FC Hollywood with decline, and Tik Tok influencer QSG. Domestically he would have swept and added more titles to his CV, while in CL with right moves and Mbappe he would probably have a serious shot for another CL in the span of few years.

I don`t see how i would downplay Zizu`s insane run, even if i had downplayed Pep`s feats. I am downplaying rhetoric of Pep being Jesus of football not him being a great coach producing great achievements.

I’m glad you mention those allegations and if you are able to get a conviction against them I’ll be your best pal because that would mean no more city dominating the trophy count. Until then I can only hope you are right. There’s a hundred national teams he could coach including Brazil and Spain but he is just waiting for France. If you claim to be the best NOW you can’t be on leave now. You have to be in service NOW.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

The myth that City have 2 world class players in every position really needs to die on here.

It's an argument that implicitly concedes ground.

The old argument was, 'Pep was so successful at Barcelona because of conditions that cannot be replicated (the specific ball-playing skills of a bunch of guys who were trained from a young age at La Masia)."

Now it turns out you can replicate those conditions by going into the transfer market and buying some guys.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

This is the selective criticism of Guardiola. Yesterday he has the unprecedented advantage of signing another CB after a 'flop' like John Stones. Today he has the unprecedented advantage of having a wonderful player like John Stones in his squad.

Yep, also Pep gets more out of players in his squad that he buys than most, even if initially they seem like flops. Grealish, Mahrez, Ake couldn’t get in the team at first and all play important roles. There are actually very few senior players they buy that he doesn’t use.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

In one thread it's argued that when Qatar takes over then nothing that United wins counts and everything will feel hollow.
Somehow Pep is still amazing for finally fumbling over the line for a Champion Leagu with City. What an amazing legacy.

If Ten Hag can go win 5 out of 6 Premier Leagues and a Champions League with Qatar money then he will be an all-time great manager. It would make supporting the club feel more hollow but Ten Hag’s achievement would still be impressive.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

Not even close.

Bayern is the only untainted period (no referee corruption, PED scandals, money laundering, financial doping, sports washing) and he just about matched expectations in a monopolised one horse division.

Pep cannot enter the top tier coach discussion until achieving exceptional results without a clear and corrupt advantage over immediate rivals.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

He also extremely selective in joining front runners. Taking the Bayern job is a b1tch move and everyone has success there. 2 different managers had won with City in recent years


As of April 2023.
Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool
Five Biggest Purchases

1. Virgil van Dijk – £76.2milion
2. Darwin Nunez – £67.5million
2. Alisson – £56.3million
3. Naby Keita – £54million
4. Fabinho – £40.5million

Five Biggest Sales

1. Phillipe Coutinho – £121.5million
2. Sadio Mane – £28.8million
3. Christian Benteke – £28.1million
4. Mamadou Sakho – £25.4million
5. Danny Ings – £22.6million

Total Spent: £680.06million
Total Sold: £435.74million

Total Net Spend: £244.68million

Jurgen Klopp greets Sadio Mane after Liverpool's Premier League match with West Ham United, Anfield, Liverpool, March 2022

READ: Sadio Mane, beware: 9 players that flopped after leaving Jurgen Klopp

Pep Guardiola at Man City
Five Biggest Purchases

1. Jack Grealish – £105.8million
2. Ruben Dias – £61.2million
3. Riyad Mahrez – £61million
4. Joao Cancelo – £58.5million
5. Aymeric Laporte – £58.5million

Five Biggest Sales

1. Leroy Sane – £54million
2. Raheem Sterling – £50.9million
3. Ferran Torres – £49.5million
4. Gabriel Jesus – £47million
5. Danilo – £33.3million

Total Spent: £1.18billion
Total Sold: £518.2million

Total Net Spend: £661.8million

Haaland transfer was around £135m when accounting for £42m agent fees and signing on fees. Not accounting for likely double salary in the UAE also. This is the issue when introducing financial data as a metric for assessing Pep.

 

[erikcred]

If Ten Hag can go win 5 out of 6 Premier Leagues and a Champions League with Qatar money then he will be an all-time great manager. It would make supporting the club feel more hollow but Ten Hag’s achievement would still be impressive.

The only way it'd be impressive would be if he did that against a top class manager with similar resources. Otherwise the word for that is flat-track bully.

If anything, the expectation if he outspent all good managers substantially with the Qatar money, should be a treble or quadruple every season. Show that with so many resources, you have the ability to take luck out of the cup competitions and guarantee much more than "just" a league title.

For all the mockery that Kompany attracts, he got that right speaking about the quadruple. Hopefully they''ll never succeed, but at least it's something meaningful to attempt as opposed to hitting mid-table sides for a cricket score most weekends.

 

[erikcred]

This is the selective criticism of Guardiola. Yesterday he has the unprecedented advantage of signing another CB after a 'flop' like John Stones. Today he has the unprecedented advantage of having a wonderful player like John Stones in his squad.

That's not selective. It just means that they can buy players for 50m and have them sit on the bench until they come good. Stones didn't work right away? Get Laporte and then Dias in the meantime. And sure, Stones is a quality player and will obviously have an excellent season here and there (like the covid season and this one). Same with Grealish last season. Kalvin Phillips can't play? Does that mean it's 50m down the drain, affecting next year's budget? Nope. We have Rodri.

It's great planning and squad selection, but an absolute luxury to do this without worrying about where the money's going to come from. Like without that Coutinho money, there's no way Liverpool were getting all three of Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. But if City wanted them, is that even a question? If you insist they sell someone, they'll just sell Scott Carson to someone for 80m in a totally legit deal and balance the books.

 

[Daydreamer]

Haaland transfer was around £135m when accounting for £42m agent fees and signing on fees. Not accounting for likely double salary in the UAE also. This is the issue when introducing financial data as a metric for assessing Pep.

Source?

 

[Daydreamer]

That's not selective. It just means that they can buy players for 50m and have them sit on the bench until they come good. Stones didn't work right away? Get Laporte and then Dias in the meantime. And sure, Stones is a quality player and will obviously have an excellent season here and there (like the covid season and this one). Same with Grealish last season. Kalvin Phillips can't play? Does that mean it's 50m down the drain, affecting next year's budget? Nope. We have Rodri.

It's great planning and squad selection, but an absolute luxury to do this without worrying about where the money's going to come from. Like without that Coutinho money, there's no way Liverpool were getting all three of Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. But if City wanted them, is that even a question? If you insist they sell someone, they'll just sell Scott Carson to someone for 80m in a totally legit deal and balance the books.

What is the actual criticism here? They buy players ahead of a desperate need of a replacement allowing the new signing to adapt? That sounds like good management to me.

And why exactly would other clubs commit fraud and reduce their income in order to help City?

As an Arsenal fan, I’m bitterly disappointed that we lost out to a team that very well may have been cheating. There are actual rules City are charged with breaking. We don’t have to make any up just to bash Pep.

 

[adexkola]

Source?

"Trust me bro"

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

That's not selective. It just means that they can buy players for 50m and have them sit on the bench until they come good. Stones didn't work right away? Get Laporte and then Dias in the meantime.

John Stones was signed in the summer of 2016. Ruben Dias was signed in the summer of 2020. That is not "the meantime" by any stretch of the imagination.

Guardiola has been at City for seven seasons. He's signed a bunch of center backs because their previous center backs retired from football.

 

[TenonTen]

Still reckon Jose has a better CV with a number of challenging jobs of various budgets and circumstances in different environments. For me, his achievements with Porto and Inter are better and tougher than anything Pep has done.

 

[Bearded One]

Haaland transfer was around £135m when accounting for £42m agent fees and signing on fees. Not accounting for likely double salary in the UAE also. This is the issue when introducing financial data as a metric for assessing Pep.

None of these amounts are over and beyond United spending ability especially when you consider that we signed Lukaku recently or Chelsea spending on Lukaku, Werner, Morata and still haven’t locked down that position. This won’t get mentioned because we don’t want to beat a dead horse but the guy who is succeeding is being probed endlessly on the nitty gritty of his job. They tried to get Kane the previous season and failed, waited and got their man. If not for the release clause on his contract no club on earth will get him for £51m therefore the transfer could have been even much more expensive if there was no clause. Why not let’s call out the people that manage this club. How come we were sleeping when City moved even with the links Ole had with the guy?

That's not selective. It just means that they can buy players for 50m and have them sit on the bench until they come good. Stones didn't work right away? Get Laporte and then Dias in the meantime. And sure, Stones is a quality player and will obviously have an excellent season here and there (like the covid season and this one). Same with Grealish last season. Kalvin Phillips can't play? Does that mean it's 50m down the drain, affecting next year's budget? Nope. We have Rodri.

It's great planning and squad selection, but an absolute luxury to do this without worrying about where the money's going to come from. Like without that Coutinho money, there's no way Liverpool were getting all three of Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. But if City wanted them, is that even a question? If you insist they sell someone, they'll just sell Scott Carson to someone for 80m in a totally legit deal and balance the books.

You are exaggerating when you say they can sell a Carson for 80m. They got good money for Sinchenko and Jesus who are proving themselves in Arsenal. If Barca bought Raphina for around the same amount they bought Ferran Torres, you think the Raphina deal was legit while the Ferran one has some shadiness to it, your bias is kicking in. They get good value for their players because they perform at a high level not some conspiracy theory. City were lucky with injuries this season unlike previous ones. If Rodri had been injured I bet you City won’t be winning 3 trophies. The guy looked fagged out. Usually it takes their players time to adjust to their tactics. Some of them have made statements in that regard. At least they get to speed no sooner than later unlike having to move Pogba who never really achieved the hype around him hype or Martial or Lukaku - big money signings. Chelsea replaced striker upon striker upon striker but that doesn’t get mentioned because they aren’t the bad guys.

 

[Bearded One]

Still reckon Jose has a better CV with a number of challenging jobs of various budgets and circumstances in different environments. For me, his achievements with Porto and Inter are better and tougher than anything Pep has done.

Ask him to do it with a better squad that is technically gifted and more expressive and that’s where it gets tricky. Also ask him to do it now and he will be found out meaning that he is not adapting to the changing game.

 

[united_99]

Me neither to be honest! Look at these players for their international teams and before their time at City and whereas most were indeed good players, it's not like they were considered among the best in their position when they joined. Haaland and maybe De Bruyne are the exception. They've even been outbid for some players by direct rivals. If we were losing players to direct rivals because they spent more, there'd be an outcry for it's why we can't compete. They have a very good squad but if you consider their level before joining, I don't think it's that far off Chelsea's, Liverpool's or ourselves.

The one question I keep trying to find a proper answer for from this brigade is why does he keep getting these jobs? Why has he been easily the most sought after manager in the world since his sabbatical when everyone from Sir Alex, Abramovic to the German hierarchy and the City Sheikhs tried to convince him to join them promising him whatever resources he needed? Yes anyone can make a mistake but rarely if ever, have we seen such common consensus from so many decision makers in football. His detractors keep using the argument that he gets the best jobs but did you think for once why? Are those all footballing people who worked in the game for years and who would benefit the most from identifying the right appointment just a bunch of idiots? Why was he never fired and why is he basically the only manager working today and has been over the past decade, to be able to ask for whatever he wants? It's really no more idiotic than saying Schumacher used to win because he had the best car. He just fooled all those decision makers in the car industry to give him the keys apparently.

You sure you are a United fan? All I see you is mostly passionately defending Pep, but hardly defending anything United related.
I don’t rate Pep as highly as you, for me give someone like SAF or even Klopp the same resources and they would have achieved more.
However regardless of different opinions I notice a constant hyperbole in your posts like in this one. When exactly did SAF “promise Pep whatever resources he needed”? Would that be the same amazing resources SAF himself had especially between 2009-2013? Or the amazing Glazers as owners? And what power would SAF have had after retirement to offer Pep all those resources?
SAF also spoke to Klopp and Ancelotti and I have never heard he was desperate for any of them, let alone that he was desperate for Pep more than the others. And he also chose Moyes.

Then Roman, same story. Was he desperate for Pep more than for other managers? Roman was never scared to try different things. He went for Jose in 2004 who was unproven as manager outside Portugal and Ranieri wasn’t doing too bad. Still he went for Jose and gave him the key to Chelsea.
People are also going way overboard giving Pep all the credit for the likes of Stones and Grealish, Stones was a very expensive transfer back then. Next, people will give him credit for “100 mil nothing player Rice” if that transfer happens.

Whereas regarding other managers people put them down like Klopp’s 1 title in 8 years. However he came very close in two other seasons and won the CL much earlier than Pep did at City despite 115 charges. He also reached 3 CL finals with Liverpool. Klopp’s (net) spend compared to Pep is peanuts but hey, maybe we should just ignore the financial advantages Pep has compared to other great managers and just hail him.

 

[united_99]

Source:

https://www.statista.com/chart/18001/transfer-balance-of-football-clubs-since-2008/

That comparison with Bayern, Madrid, Liverpool and even Barcelona that @Theonas points out at maybe should be reviewed.

@Theonas is generally a quality poster but when it comes to Pep he is the king of hyperboles.

 

[Theonas]

I don't think there are another half dozen teams like that. Bayern don't really have a top striker, real Madrid were relying on 2 35 plus year olds, we were playing with wout weghorst up front, Chelsea were awful, psg were weak basically everywhere except for Messi mbappe and neymar. That's why city won the champions league this year, every other top side was going through a poor year.

I am really beginning to wonder if you're serious. The point is these teams have misused their finances and that they could have easily built their squad same way City did and coach them to perform as well. You are talking as though the level of players right now at this very moment in time is indicative of the resources available to each team whereas if you try and think about it for a minute, you will understand that we're talking about how similar resources have been used and improved by being part of a good system and strategy.

Nobody forced PSG to splash close to 400 millions on 2 players, they could have bought 8 so called 50 million players for that and let's not even get in to their wages. One of these 35 year olds at Real Madrid is the Balon d'Or winner, a player who as single handedly as that can be, won them a CL! City never had a player of that calibre. Let's remember here that Real and Barcelona are the only clubs in the world who can get world class players (Kroos, Rüdiger, Alaba, Lewandowski,...) doing whatever they can from running down their contract to taking salary cuts to join them, now that's an advantage no one else has. Bayern didn't have a striker but neither did City last year and they'd still managed to win the league, didn't they also win a title with Fabian Delph at left back? And why did we have Wout up to? Maybe has something to do with having wingers worth close to 200 millions? We actually bought 2 players who have 8 CLs between them on huge wages and big fees with no resale value whatsoever. Let's not even get into how we outspent everyone in the country for the services of the likes Pogba, Lukaku and Sanchez and many others. I am really beginning to think you're not serious and just noticing now that you username might indicate why.

Its just that you're almost tribal in defending pep, I mean it's one thing to claim he's created a great playstyle or whatever, but trying to argue he doesn't have more resources than basically anyone else is just odd

Aren't you indirectly defending the quality of their players and claiming they're a cut above everyone else? Why is it okay to say that about a rival's players but not a rival's manager? Not that this should even matter to you when debating something about football as it implies who we support should play any part in what we think objectively about a certain situation which is embarrassingly juvenile.

As for the bolded part, that's because it's a silly argument that can b dismissed very quickly once you look at how much money and advantages 5 or 6 other teams in Europe had access to in the same period. There are half a dozen teams who stand head and shoulder above the rest when it comes to what they can afford with fees and wages with City being one of them. City and Bayern are the two who refused to go beyond certain amounts leading them to miss out players in a way the other 4 have not been shy of doing multiple times of the years.

 

[jm99]

I am really beginning to wonder if you're serious. The point is these teams have misused their finances and that they could have easily built their squad same way City did and coach them to perform as well. You are talking as though the level of players right now at this very moment in time is indicative of the resources available to each team whereas if you try and think about it for a minute, you will understand that we're talking about how similar resources have been used and improved by being part of a good system and strategy.

Nobody forced PSG to splash close to 400 millions on 2 players, they could have bought 8 so called 50 million players for that and let's not even get in to their wages. One of these 35 year olds at Real Madrid is the Balon d'Or winner, a player who as single handedly as that can be, won them a CL! City never had a player of that calibre. Let's remember here that Real and Barcelona are the only clubs in the world who can get world class players (Kroos, Rüdiger, Alaba, Lewandowski,...) doing whatever they can from running down their contract to taking salary cuts to join them, now that's an advantage no one else has. Bayern didn't have a striker but neither did City last year and they'd still managed to win the league, didn't they also win a title with Fabian Delph at left back? And why did we have Wout up to? Maybe has something to do with having wingers worth close to 200 millions? We actually bought 2 players who have 8 CLs between them on huge wages and big fees with no resale value whatsoever. Let's not even get into how we outspent everyone in the country for the services of the likes Pogba, Lukaku and Sanchez and many others. I am really beginning to think you're not serious and just noticing now that you username might indicate why.



Aren't you indirectly defending the quality of their players and claiming they're a cut above everyone else? Why is it okay to say that about a rival's players but not a rival's manager? Not that this should even matter to you when debating something about football as it implies who we support should play any part in what we think objectively about a certain situation which is embarrassingly juvenile.

As for the bolded part, that's because it's a silly argument that can b dismissed very quickly once you look at how much money and advantages 5 or 6 other teams in Europe had access to in the same period. There are half a dozen teams who stand head and shoulder above the rest when it comes to what they can afford with fees and wages with City being one of them. City and Bayern are the two who refused to go beyond certain amounts leading them to miss out players in a way the other 4 have not been shy of doing multiple times of the years.

So basically you're giving pep credit for City's excellent structure and ownership where they dont waste money on shit players or overpay?

 

[kaiser1]

The myth that City have 2 world class players in every position really needs to die on here.

I saw someone argue they have the best squad ever. They're not even the best City squad with Pep. And there's teams in the past decade with a better squad than them.

Tell anyone of those who say it to mention those 2 world class players per position