Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

As for Pep specifically. By going to building a side himself and wing the treble from england, I believe the hardest place to do it from, he is now top 2 in achievement. SAF only sits above him due longevity, rebuilding in 4 different eras and what he did at Aberdeen. People should never over look how Pep has influenced football coaching and play by all who have faced him. He is the Cruyff of this era in terms of that. I feel if by any chance he chooses to join international football and also wins. He'd have to be rated as 1.

 

[VanDeBank]

He probably will be by the time he retires.

 

[Baxquux]

Personally, I still rank Rinus Michels (total football/positional play) , Helenio Herrera (catenaccio) , Viktor Maslov (pressing football) and Gusztav Sebes (false 9 with total football) above ANY managers that came after them. Because all our modern greats like Guardiola, Ferguson, Ancelotti, Mourinho are just revisiting the tactics these gents invented to garner consistent footballing success. I doubt there is any prevailing tactic in the game today that does not hail from those 4 gentlemen

That argument is about Greatest Coaching contenders, on the grounds of innovation and influence, which is a perfectly good debate, but I think 'Managerial greatness', at least in long-standing sense (one which is dying out with DOF influence etc) is also a question of team-building and club-building.

In a British context, there's a reason why Busby, Shankly, Clough, Stein and, arguably the greatest, SAF are the usual pantheon. Wenger is in the discussion too for inclusion in 'top echelon of those who worked in UK', if not the British-based GOAT, being tarnished in part by Arsenal plateau and '4th place trophyism' (though Clough faced similar issues, for different reasons)

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Yep, it’s crazy to think a coach as good as Guardiola couldn’t take a team 10th in the league and make them 6th, it’s the management equivalent of wanting Messi to play for Stoke to ‘prove’ himself. Guardiola or Messi don’t need to do that, their ability is as clear as day. It is a ridiculous hypothetical that will never happen.

Well put.

In terms of achievements, his record is going to look spectacular by the time he's done. He's already at:

3 Champions Leagues
11 League titles (top 5 leagues)
6 domestic cups
4 secondary cups (in England)

And a boatload of supercups.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Well put.

In terms of achievements, his record is going to look spectacular by the time he's done. He's already at:

3 Champions Leagues
11 League titles (top 5 leagues)
6 domestic cups
4 secondary cups (in England)

And a boatload of supercups.

It easy to win loads of trophies as a manager when you only ever manage clubs that have top squads, huge\limitless budgets, and are already winning everything like Bayern Munich, Barcelona, and City.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

That argument is about Greatest Coaching contenders, on the grounds of innovation and influence, which is a perfectly good debate, but I think 'Managerial greatness', at least in long-standing sense (one which is dying out with DOF influence etc) is also a question of team-building and club-building.

In a British context, there's a reason why Busby, Shankly, Clough, Stein and, arguably the greatest, SAF are the usual pantheon. Wenger is in the discussion too for inclusion in 'top echelon of those who worked in UK', if not the British-based GOAT, being tarnished in part by Arsenal plateau and '4th place trophyism' (though Clough faced similar issues, for different reasons)

Fair enough

 

[Stacks]

Sure, but in that case he will be in the same class as Klopp and other excellent managers, not a class above as some claim.


And no one is asking (I think) that he should pick relegation fodder and made them champions in order to prove himself.
What people are waiting to see is him replicating his domination in a title contender that isn't above the others significantly.

In Barça he was on level with his rivals but with the domination of the spanish golden generation + Messi it does ask the question if he did just rode that wave (steering it with his quality of course). Mourinho did climb up a hill and bested him in the league before he left, Villanova did have a better league record after he left with 100 points (with his team and methods) and with that core team Luis Enrique also won league and CL. He absolutely had his imprint in that team but imho it's pretty reasonable to have doubts on who "benefited" more from whom.

In Bayern he had a dominant team that often bought their rival's best players with the reverse not happening (despite not winning the league every season before him), had reached 3 CL finals in 4 years and directly inherited a treble winning team.

In City he picked a team that had already been champion twice in the 5 years before him, with money injection continuing and accelerating during his tenure, adding more and more starter and bench players to an already title challenging squad beyond what other teams could do.

I agree. He generally does no accept a challenge. Basically Kevin Durant of football management. Next he gonna manage PSG

 

[Stacks]

Posts like this are so funny. He doesn't need to prove anything. If he leaves City in 2025, Roma or Spurs will not even dream of inquiring if he will be interested in the project.
Imo he failed in Bayern but his stock is even higher now than it was after he left Barca.
I think the Pep at Barca and Bayern might have struggled with a mid table team. But this Pep, especially after this season of playing 4 CBs, given up possession in some big games, will do quite well with a mid table side

I mean he signed Haaland, the greatest forward if our generations after winning the title last year.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

Yes Zizou made RM the best and they achieved this with the help of investments and the squad quality but the resources wasn’t necessarily all that there was. He took over from Benitez who already had RM in a serious mess. There were other managers that would underwhelm given the same situation so I wouldn’t hold that against him. What I hold against him however is that he hasn’t continued to test himself at the highest level after such a remarkable success.

I don’t want people saying the best managers should go to the Burnleys of this world - which you know is not realistic. Why not encourage them to get the required support they need and prove they are better than their contemporaries the exact same same you’d expect a star footballer to go to a bigger club to prove himself at the highest level and not the other way around.

It Pep had Mane, Musiala, Coman, Gnarbry, Sane, now Cancelo, Hernandez, etc not mentioning the names you called, you’d be screaming how much of a cheat he is. Bernardo is not exactly a winger and is much better in the middle but gets the nod because of his versatility and wotkrate. If it’s a wide position in question, even though he’s good, I’d rather do with the names I have there. And yes Bayern are underachieving considering the quality of players that they have in there.


Would you also give Pep 4 years to clear deadwood and build his team if he was to go and mange a team with a smaller budget the way Klopp was able to do?

The argument was that City has comparable squad with the rest of the Premiership. That is absolute non-sense.

In terms of innovation / tactical capacity, Pep is not the greatest. In terms of results, he is not the greatest. In terms of resources at his disposal / results which forms expected value, he is not the greatest. You want to impress me? Leave City, go back to FC Barcelona and win CL with that squad.

As for Zidane. He did something deemed impossible, basically "John Wicked" football. And according to you, he should continue to prove himself? City sounds like a good idea. Easy 1-2 CL titles more! LMFAO!

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It easy to win loads of trophies as a manager when you only ever manage clubs that have top squads, huge\limitless budgets, and are already winning everything like Bayern Munich, Barcelona, and City.

They have to hire you for those jobs, y'know.

Barcelona's net spend under Guardiola was 160m, or 40m a season. Not unreasonable when you are losing players due to age and/or other factors (Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o, Henry, etc.).

 

[kaiser1]

I mean he signed Haaland, the greatest forward if our generations after winning the title last year.

Should have signed Benteke or Werghost to prove himself

 

[Zehner]

Should have signed Benteke or Werghost to prove himself

I don't think he should be in the conversation as the best ever until he has won the NBA final with the football team of San Marino at least thrice in two years.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

It easy to win loads of trophies as a manager when you only ever manage clubs that have top squads, huge\limitless budgets, and are already winning everything like Bayern Munich, Barcelona, and City.

Nah it’s not that easy to do those jobs because 1) you wouldn’t get the job in the first place 2) you’d be sacked if you didn’t win a trophy 3) you might be sacked even if you win a trophy if you weren’t playing the right way. Those jobs are no easier if not harder than a mid-table team with average budget that finished 13th last year and you finish 13th again. If they were so easy you wouldn’t see such a turnover of managers.

 

[Gehrman]

They have to hire you for those jobs, y'know.

Barcelona's net spend under Guardiola was 160m, or 40m a season. Not unreasonable when you are losing players due to age and/or other factors (Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o, Henry, etc.).

I think Pep's job at Barca is easily his best achievement. He had everything he needed but no one was calling it the best squad in the world untill he won treble in his first season there.

 

[Botim]

It easy to win loads of trophies as a manager when you only ever manage clubs that have top squads, huge\limitless budgets, and are already winning everything like Bayern Munich, Barcelona, and City.

Yes, very easy. That's why there's an enormous list of managers with that kind of trophy haul, right?

 

[Libero_of_Yore]

Yes, very easy. That's why there's an enormous list of managers with that kind of trophy haul, right?

Indeed, where is Ancelottis plethora of league titles, after managing big teams? How many league titles in 8 AC Milan years? Should be easy for him no?

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

Indeed, where is Ancelottis plethora of league titles, after managing big teams? How many league titles in 8 AC Milan years? Should be easy for him no?

Straw man argument. Who exactly is claiming that Ancelotti is a better manager? Despite winning 4 CL trophies he's rarely in the discussion for the best manager of all time and rightly so.

 

[Bearded One]

The argument was that City has comparable squad with the rest of the Premiership. That is absolute non-sense.

In terms of innovation / tactical capacity, Pep is not the greatest. In terms of results, he is not the greatest. In terms of resources at his disposal / results which forms expected value, he is not the greatest. You want to impress me? Leave City, go back to FC Barcelona and win CL with that squad.

As for Zidane. He did something deemed impossible, basically "John Wicked" football. And according to you, he should continue to prove himself? City sounds like a good idea. Easy 1-2 CL titles more! LMFAO!

I did not say his squad is comparable to the REST OF THE PEEMIER LEAGUE. In EVERY league we have a few clubs that are in the bracket of thr biggest followed by the big ones all the way down to the so called small ones. The top teams in those leagues aren’t competing with the clubs at the lower echelon. I’m saying that when you compare city with the richest clubs in England, they do not have an overwhelming advantage as the said clubs can take advantage of any benefit they city has if they are run properly.
Zizou did what was never done by winning 3 UCL crowns on the spin and I commend him for that. My comment that he should continue to test himself is because you cannot lay claim on “best” when you aren’t actively competing now. What worked well some 20 or 10 years ago may now be stale. But is he the only one that has done what hasn’t ever been done? No. He hasn’t even won one treble let alone two. If you want Pep to go to Barca to prove himself, what will be enough for you? Will you give him a few years to rebuild before passing judgement the way managers who have conquered Europe with relatively smaller budgets were afforded?

 

[Bearded One]

Sure, but in that case he will be in the same class as Klopp and other excellent managers, not a class above as some claim.


And no one is asking (I think) that he should pick relegation fodder and made them champions in order to prove himself.
What people are waiting to see is him replicating his domination in a title contender that isn't above the others significantly.

In Barça he was on level with his rivals but with the domination of the spanish golden generation + Messi it does ask the question if he did just rode that wave (steering it with his quality of course). Mourinho did climb up a hill and bested him in the league before he left, Villanova did have a better league record after he left with 100 points (with his team and methods) and with that core team Luis Enrique also won league and CL. He absolutely had his imprint in that team but imho it's pretty reasonable to have doubts on who "benefited" more from whom.

In Bayern he had a dominant team that often bought their rival's best players with the reverse not happening (despite not winning the league every season before him), had reached 3 CL finals in 4 years and directly inherited a treble winning team.

In City he picked a team that had already been champion twice in the 5 years before him, with money injection continuing and accelerating during his tenure, adding more and more starter and bench players to an already title challenging squad beyond what other teams could do.

I honestly do think the managers that you mention have the proving to do. If Klopp has won one league trophy in about eight years same with Conte who beat him and Pep on his first year in England, shouldn’t that man have a look in too? Do you suggest that winning the UCL when you’re not the so called favorite is the mark for deciding above everything else? If so then you’d be enthroning what I call “flukism”. If someone flukes his way to getting a crown ala Di Matteo, you would rate him highly whereas he may have little tactical nous. This is why the argument of winning at the top consistently is a valid one. And I always argue that even though the clubs Pep have been to have continued to win stuff pre and post Pep, are all the managers that won all dead? Why do we hear little about them now? A managers stock is akin to stocks of a company. The value could rise today and then fall tomorrow but it would be sentimental to give the crown to someone because you assume that “he would win much more if given his dream budget or squad,” when we have many evidences to the contrary including Pochettino, Tuchel, Jose and more recently Potter. We all love an underdog story but reality is that the best managers should test themselves at the best clubs were failure has greater repercussions than safe havens where you can hide behind the excuse, “I am building,” “If only I had the resources,” etc. We want the best players to test themselves at the best clubs but for managers we have a different criteria? If a player has world class potential playing at Sporting (no disrespect meant), we want him to either go to the best clubs to prove himself or win consistently at Sporting to be rated among the best but when it comes to managers we say, “well if he has won this and that trophy” at this small club, he should be goated because he’d win more if he was at club B. I don’t think so.

 

[Stacks]

Should have signed Benteke or Werghost to prove himself

not what I'm saying but people claiming he worked wonders when he just won the league then signed Haaland. thats like SAF winning the league in 1996 signing R9 and people claiming his stock went up because he played 4 CB in defence

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

not what I'm saying but people claiming he worked wonders when he just won the league then signed Haaland. thats like SAF winning the league in 1996 signing R9 and people claiming his stock went up because he played 4 CB in defence

It's crazy the lengths people will go to big this guy up. He just hasn't done anything that hasn't been expected. Yes his Barca side was good, but was stacked with some insane talent. Rijkaard managed to win a CL with Barca pre peak Messi, but nobody considers him a great manager, Enrique won a treble and the same goes for him.

Barca also had some pretty dodgy refereeing giving them a helping hand during Pep's first year in case people had forgotten, I'm sure Chelsea fans will remember. Probably the all time worst refereeing performance in history and it was, shock horror, in Barca's favourite. 3 stonewall penalties, 1 debatable penalty and a red card missed in the space of one match all while Barca were trailing 1-0.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's crazy the lengths people will go to big this guy up. He just hasn't done anything that hasn't been expected. Yes his Barca side was good, but was stacked with some insane talent. Rijkaard managed to win a CL with Barca pre peak Messi, but nobody considers him a great manager, Enrique won a treble and the same goes for him.

Barca also had some pretty dodgy refereeing giving them a helping hand during Pep's first year in case people had forgotten, I'm sure Chelsea fans will remember. Probably the all time worst refereeing performance in history and it was, shock horror, in Barca's favourite. 3 stonewall penalties, 1 debatable penalty and a red card missed in the space of one match all while Barca were trailing 1-0.

Plus the other CL win involved the most dodgy second yellow you'll ever see when Arsenal were set to knock them out.

 

[Stacks]

It's crazy the lengths people will go to big this guy up. He just hasn't done anything that hasn't been expected. Yes his Barca side was good, but was stacked with some insane talent. Rijkaard managed to win a CL with Barca pre peak Messi, but nobody considers him a great manager, Enrique won a treble and the same goes for him.

Barca also had some pretty dodgy refereeing giving them a helping hand during Pep's first year in case people had forgotten, I'm sure Chelsea fans will remember. Probably the all time worst refereeing performance in history and it was, shock horror, in Barca's favourite. 3 stonewall penalties, 1 debatable penalty and a red card missed in the space of one match all while Barca were trailing 1-0.

Its the style of play that mesmerizes most.

 

[kaiser1]

It's crazy the lengths people will go to big this guy up. He just hasn't done anything that hasn't been expected. Yes his Barca side was good, but was stacked with some insane talent. Rijkaard managed to win a CL with Barca pre peak Messi, but nobody considers him a great manager, Enrique won a treble and the same goes for him.

Barca also had some pretty dodgy refereeing giving them a helping hand during Pep's first year in case people had forgotten, I'm sure Chelsea fans will remember. Probably the all time worst refereeing performance in history and it was, shock horror, in Barca's favourite. 3 stonewall penalties, 1 debatable penalty and a red card missed in the space of one match all while Barca were trailing 1-0.

Do you remember than Abidal was given a red card for a no contact in that same game or it doesn't matter

 

[kaiser1]

not what I'm saying but people claiming he worked wonders when he just won the league then signed Haaland. thats like SAF winning the league in 1996 signing R9 and people claiming his stock went up because he played 4 CB in defence

Man Utd won the league in 2001, then followed it by signing one of the best strikers in Europe Nistelrooy and one of the best midfielders in Europe Veron, then followed it the next season by breaking the world record for a defender when they signed Rio. All these didn't stop Ferguson from being highly regarded

 

[Stacks]

Man Utd won the league in 2001, then followed it by signing one of the best strikers in Europe Nistelrooy and one of the best midfielders in Europe Veron, then followed it the next season by breaking the world record for a defender when they signed Rio. All these didn't stop Ferguson from being highly regarded

Because he also won titles whilst being the 4th/5th biggest spenders in the league, one against Oil rich clubs twice and won league titles and made finals with a midfield of Carrick, Giggs, Park/Anderson, Valencia with Rooney and Hernandez as our forwards. Also Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher as title winning midfields vs money bags City.

Pep could neverrrr

 

[Bebestation]

This seasons tactics of the back line and fullbacks were great & very scientific.

 

[Maluco]

His nearest rivals had to give serious game time to Rob Holding and Wout Weghorst. He has an optimal squad with top class players he doesn’t even use.

The only time in his managerial career he didn’t have an overpowered (and allegedly illegal) squad (and just a very, very good one), he was pretty shit and finished 3rd.

Ferguson won the PL with teams that Guardiola never could. For every single victory in his career, he has had far better players than his competition. Most of the time, he still finds ways to lose to inferior opposition in the biggest trophy.

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

Do you remember than Abidal was given a red card for a no contact in that same game or it doesn't matter

I do remember that, but I also remember that Abidal should have conceded a penalty to make it 2-0 and also been sent off already by that point. The ref made a bad call trying to even things up, but then once he'd done that he ignored a further 2 penalties for Chelsea.

Please don't try to make out like the decisions evened themselves out for each team over the course of the game because a guy eventually got sent off who shouldn't have even still been on the pitch at that point.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

I did not say his squad is comparable to the REST OF THE PEEMIER LEAGUE. In EVERY league we have a few clubs that are in the bracket of thr biggest followed by the big ones all the way down to the so called small ones. The top teams in those leagues aren’t competing with the clubs at the lower echelon. I’m saying that when you compare city with the richest clubs in England, they do not have an overwhelming advantage as the said clubs can take advantage of any benefit they city has if they are run properly.
Zizou did what was never done by winning 3 UCL crowns on the spin and I commend him for that. My comment that he should continue to test himself is because you cannot lay claim on “best” when you aren’t actively competing now. What worked well some 20 or 10 years ago may now be stale. But is he the only one that has done what hasn’t ever been done? No. He hasn’t even won one treble let alone two. If you want Pep to go to Barca to prove himself, what will be enough for you? Will you give him a few years to rebuild before passing judgement the way managers who have conquered Europe with relatively smaller budgets were afforded?

A club owned by filthy rich State which has been pouring tons of cash into the club with the usual window-dressing - tons of financial infractions, and they don`t have overwhelming advantage? Does SAF need to dust off his football boots and start actively competing to lay claim of being the best? As for Zidane. He has climbed Olympus Mons, but he has not climbed Mont Blanc! That is essentially your narrative.

Shall we discuss the reason behind why post Barcelona, he failed to win another CL trophy for 12 years - despite having literally every important asset at his disposal?

 

[Libero_of_Yore]

It's crazy the lengths people will go to big this guy up. He just hasn't done anything that hasn't been expected. Yes his Barca side was good, but was stacked with some insane talent. Rijkaard managed to win a CL with Barca pre peak Messi, but nobody considers him a great manager, Enrique won a treble and the same goes for him.

Barca also had some pretty dodgy refereeing giving them a helping hand during Pep's first year in case people had forgotten, I'm sure Chelsea fans will remember. Probably the all time worst refereeing performance in history and it was, shock horror, in Barca's favourite. 3 stonewall penalties, 1 debatable penalty and a red card missed in the space of one match all while Barca were trailing 1-0.

When Pep joined a disjointed Barca in 2008, he was expected to win the treble (and all 6 in calender year 2009)? This is simply not true. He wasn't expected to create one of the greatest football teams ever seen, and win countless trophies doing so. This is a narrative switch to downplay his greatness.

 

[Bearded One]

A club owned by filthy rich State which has been pouring tons of cash into the club with the usual window-dressing - tons of financial infractions, and they don`t have overwhelming advantage? Does SAF need to dust off his football boots and start actively competing to lay claim of being the best? As for Zidane. He has climbed Olympus Mons, but he has not climbed Mont Blanc! That is essentially your narrative.

Shall we discuss the reason behind why post Barcelona, he failed to win another CL trophy for 12 years - despite having literally every important asset at his disposal?

Real Madrid and Barca getting the chunk of Laliga money is what? Gaining advantage. No? I have heard the arguments around financial impropriety from different quarters as well as the rebuttal from City that the rules were introduced to hamstring them and protect interests and that when they were seen to be on the way to meeting the allowed loss position set, the goalposts were changed in the course of the season. They eventually got punished and from that point on, the claims and counter claims have been rife.

I can only conclude that City should be given a 5 years ban and asked to re-start in a lower division if they are convicted. When I speak of advantage, I’m talking purely in terms of sales and purchases and what happens on the pitch. What have City spent that Chelsea and United haven’t? The investment of money externallyp is not wrong but doing so shadily is and so I recommend the punishment above if they are convicted. Newcastle just got bought and they need investments to take them to the place where they can compete with the top clubs in the premier league. Personally I would have wished to the contrary but this sort of external investment and the resultant competition it brings only makes the league better.

SAF is goated for me because of what he was able to achieve during his time and as you mention he is retired now and so he clearly is not one of the managers in this current period. Zizou however is very much part of this period and unless you show me where he indicated that he has retired, I wouldn’t take your word, if you are making such a claim. Achieving success is one thing but doing so consistently and currently is another. Zizou has three UCL titles in his kitty - very impressive but how many 38 game league titles has he got? He is probably waiting for the France NT job to become available but unfortunately Deschamps has it on lock down. It’s one thing to be approached by 10 clubs and you pick one and another thing for you to be approached by 10 clubs and you are holding out for one that isn’t available. I wouldn’t GOAT such a man. Or maybe I should ask you, what is his reason for being on leave for a protracted time despite being in active service? For the record I consider SAF as the all time great (feel free to disagree I know you may judge accuse me of bias, but it’s fine) and I consider Pep as the best currently (call me an ass licker, it’s also fine).

Pep won the treble and UCL twice at Barca. I know people try to downplay that feat (wrongly) but if you downplay that feat, you have unintentionally also downplayed Zizou’s achievements too. Pep had underwhelmed in the UCL over the years but nobody has been a clear winner in this period. Maybe Zizou would have been if he decided to keep at it but taking a prolonged leave whilst in service hasn’t done him any favours.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It's crazy the lengths people will go to big this guy up. He just hasn't done anything that hasn't been expected.

This is obviously false, as others have pointed out.

Rijkaard managed to win a CL with Barca pre peak Messi, but nobody considers him a great manager, Enrique won a treble and the same goes for him.

These guys are not considered great because their record is a lot worse than Guardiola's, this is not exactly mysterious.

Rijkaard had poor results before the Barcelona job, started having poor results during the Barcelona job, continued having poor results at other jobs, and then retired.

Luis Enrique had middling results before the Barcelona job, then really only had the team performing at a high level for about a year (calendar year 2015). His work in the Spanish national team was good, not great.

(Also plenty of people do consider him a very good manager)

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Shall we discuss the reason behind why post Barcelona, he failed to win another CL trophy for 12 years

You say this like 'failing to win the CL in 12 years' is some kind of weird thing. It is, in fact, the norm.

Only 20 managers have won the European Cup more than once. Of those, the vast majority won all the titles over a brief period (2-6 years).

The ones who didn't are Guardiola (2 in 3 years, then 12 years until the next one), Ferguson (9 years between two titles), Happel (13 years between two titles), and Heynckes (15 years between two titles).

The only manager who wins it 'regularly' is Ancelotti, who won it in 2003, 2007, 2013, and 2022. He's the exception, not the rule.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Zizou has three UCL titles in his kitty - very impressive but how many 38 game league titles has he got?

2 out of 4. Pretty good record.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I still don't know why people have convinced themselves that Manchester City have some kind of incredible squad that no one could ever compete with.

 

[Septoe]

I still don't know why people have convinced themselves that Manchester City have some kind of incredible squad that no one could ever compete with.

Can other teams compete with City? Absolutely, Madrid probably is the closest, but I would say city's squad is by far and away the most complete in the world right now.

 

[kaiser1]

I do remember that, but I also remember that Abidal should have conceded a penalty to make it 2-0 and also been sent off already by that point. The ref made a bad call trying to even things up, but then once he'd done that he ignored a further 2 penalties for Chelsea.

Please don't try to make out like the decisions evened themselves out for each team over the course of the game because a guy eventually got sent off who shouldn't have even still been on the pitch at that point.

What would Abidal be sent off for? The English teams I guess knew they were inferior to Barcelona and did everything to make it about referees and not that they couldnt match Barcelona
If it wasnt Andres Frisk, It was Ovbredo. Chelsea players were going down at every contact and trying to gain unfair advantage which Ovbredo ignored

Fact is that Ovbredo gave Abidal a red card for a no contact no foul with over 30mins to go when Barcelona was trailing. This was somehow conveniently forgotten by the English fans

 

[Theonas]

I still don't know why people have convinced themselves that Manchester City have some kind of incredible squad that no one could ever compete with.

Me neither to be honest! Look at these players for their international teams and before their time at City and whereas most were indeed good players, it's not like they were considered among the best in their position when they joined. Haaland and maybe De Bruyne are the exception. They've even been outbid for some players by direct rivals. If we were losing players to direct rivals because they spent more, there'd be an outcry for it's why we can't compete. They have a very good squad but if you consider their level before joining, I don't think it's that far off Chelsea's, Liverpool's or ourselves.

The one question I keep trying to find a proper answer for from this brigade is why does he keep getting these jobs? Why has he been easily the most sought after manager in the world since his sabbatical when everyone from Sir Alex, Abramovic to the German hierarchy and the City Sheikhs tried to convince him to join them promising him whatever resources he needed? Yes anyone can make a mistake but rarely if ever, have we seen such common consensus from so many decision makers in football. His detractors keep using the argument that he gets the best jobs but did you think for once why? Are those all footballing people who worked in the game for years and who would benefit the most from identifying the right appointment just a bunch of idiots? Why was he never fired and why is he basically the only manager working today and has been over the past decade, to be able to ask for whatever he wants? It's really no more idiotic than saying Schumacher used to win because he had the best car. He just fooled all those decision makers in the car industry to give him the keys apparently.

 

[jm99]

I still don't know why people have convinced themselves that Manchester City have some kind of incredible squad that no one could ever compete with.

It's probably soemthing to do with the £50m plus player in every position, 2 of the 5 best players in the world in their starting lineup, £50-100m bench players and the ability to discard £60m players like cancelo without any concern. Other than that though, it's basically like managing a mistake side