Only we are stupid enough to write the cheque.....
Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?
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We aren’t creative enough because our over reliance on Rashford unbalances us when his general play doesn’t warrant being the main man. Yeah it’s exceptional numbers for a young winger but wingers track back and create plenty of chances for others. I think we look a lot more balanced, compact and creative with Pogba on the left and Greenwood on the right Cavani in the middle
Not that close. 2 more full seasons is enough. Thats the same as about 40% of all players. It's more the other factors helping to drive down his price. Economic climate and the fact he actually fancies a move. Grealish had 2 years left and they still wanted top dollar.
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But thats aftet their links with Sancho. They were more credible links to Sancho then than now. Sancho wanting Utd happened very early in that window
They want an out out No9 for that mate
It's why they've been more reliably linked to Lukaku, Haaland and Aguero
You misunderstood what I was saying. Clearly United would buy Sancho to play on the right, but Sancho's at hist best when he pops up on the left and in the centre during a game. For a fluid front line like that to work, generally speaking you need someone to slot into the position vacated by Sancho. Otherwise you're just overcrowding one area of the pitch without getting the full benefits of overloading one side and stretching play on the other. So if Sancho wanders to the left and combines with Rashford and Cavani for instance, it works best if another player moves into Sancho's right position. That way the opposing back line can't fully shift to the overloaded side, and on top of that a quick switch of play to the right side can result in an attack in lots of space. In this scenario Daniel James obviously wouldn't be playing because Sancho starts on the right, but who attacks that side when Sancho pops up in other areas? Wan Bissaka isn't that good at attacking, and Bruno's main strength is through the middle too.
Like @Zehner said above, Hakimi played that role really well, and Dortmund have other players that can move into that right position during a match, even if they're also not ideal at it. All things considered though, I don't think that's a reason not to pursue Sancho, just something to consider. Sooner or later United might look into signing a better attacking right back anyway, who knows.
What's missing is a goalscorer. Sancho does nothing for that.
seems you took my comment seriously
Have the feeling we are in for the same story as last year. The situation feels exactly the same only that every club who's directly or indirectly involved has less money now. Dortmund has recently confirmed that they had a gentlemen's agreement with Sancho last year and it is expected they have it this year, too, only for a smaller fee that's still enormous for the second covid year. He's still got two years on his contract and Dortmund might again want to prevent that they sell him when the market is at its weakest, probably immediately before the prices start to rise again. It's also obvious how important he is on the pitch for them. Day and night with and without him.
A lot will also depend on the market as a whole. When the top spenders don't dish out cash, the rest has less to spend. The price Dortmund is asking for is still higher than what United reportedly was willing to offer last season. Barca and Madrid will be in for a very low profile transfer window so Salah and Mané will probably stay at Liverpool, which means no cash injection for them. PSG has Neymar in his exact position. And no club is in serious demand for him either. If Chelsea is serious, they could probably get him but although he'd fit in perfectly in their line up, they'd need to drop a player or two due to sheer quantity. At United he'd compete with Rashford, Bruno and Pogba positionally and as it seems Dortmund's asking price was almost insurmountable last season for them, so there are question marks if they break the bank this season, either.
Probably a long summer with lots of rumors and few actual news coming up again.
A lot will also depend on the market as a whole. When the top spenders don't dish out cash, the rest has less to spend. The price Dortmund is asking for is still higher than what United reportedly was willing to offer last season. Barca and Madrid will be in for a very low profile transfer window so Salah and Mané will probably stay at Liverpool, which means no cash injection for them. PSG has Neymar in his exact position. And no club is in serious demand for him either. If Chelsea is serious, they could probably get him but although he'd fit in perfectly in their line up, they'd need to drop a player or two due to sheer quantity. At United he'd compete with Rashford, Bruno and Pogba positionally and as it seems Dortmund's asking price was almost insurmountable last season for them, so there are question marks if they break the bank this season, either.
Probably a long summer with lots of rumors and few actual news coming up again.
Everything about this is solid except the part where what BVB are asking for is more than what we offered last year. Our offer late in the window was £80m plus add ons of around £15m their reported asking price is between €85-90m reportedly which is around £75m £80m at most. Difference between now and last year is BVB will actually want to sell as they NEED the money and dont want an unhappy player for any longer so a compromise may be reached where there are realistic add ons worth €15-20m agreed between BVB and the buyer club(likely Utd) making an up front fee realistic. It will probably be drawn out but this time he'll leave
And he would only be competing with Greenwood who's likely to get more games as a No9 as a 34yr old Cavani can't start every game Bruno, Pogba and Rashford's positions are very fixed and different to Sancho's
Sancho is just as good on the right and has played more games in his career from the right.
People need to stop pretending he is like Rashford and Martial.
Only this season has he played more so from the left.
I didn't misunderstand what you were saying at all. You are still ignoring the fact that we have been constantly playing fluid front four in the past two season with players interchange position during the match without problem. We have seen Bruno, Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood moved to the right in the middle of the match with no problem.
Let me give you good example, when people mentioned our fluid front three with Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo. Did you think Tevez & Rooney as a winger? And just like our current front four, there is no problem for Tevez & Rooney moved to wing during the middle of the match. Another example, where did Rashford score two goals vs PSG this season? On the right side. Where did Rashford produce an assist for McTominay goal vs West Ham? On the right side. Where did Rashford deliver his cross for Cavani's goal vs Southampton? On the right. We have been playing with those interchange position with no problem, so it makes no sense to say that we don't have other players that can move into that right position during a match.
I will repeat it again with additional note to make sure you understand, the reason why we are aiming for Sancho is not just to slot RW spot for no reason but because we need creative player to upgrade Daniel James. Sancho is suitable additional in our system to upgrade James because he can slot into that RW, LW and no 10.
The Hakimi thing that @Zehner mentioned is a myth. People used it as an excuse for his poor form at the start of season but look at now? He started back to his best again.
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We are missing only one player? Nope. We lack a player like Sancho big time as well.
Check the post I was replying to, the poster was talking about Chelsea.
Of course Sancho is needed at Utd.
My bad. Brain not working.
Thought this was a Chelsea fan
Thought you were a Chelsea fan
Well explained
I think people underestimate the importance of the positional organization of a team. It doesn't need to be through a player like Hakimi. Guardiola actually has done so in very different ways. He played Alves the "Hakimi way" in order to compensate Messi drifting into the center but another great example is his use of Cancelo or Zinchenko who occupy CM spaces in possession so that Gündogan and de Bruyne can push forward. In those cases, the width is usually provided by attackers like Sterling or Foden. It doesn't really matter who occupies which position as long as they are generally covered. If you do it the right way, you can cause havoc since you can "locally" outnumber the opponent and he has to shift his defense all the time, exposing space sooner or later. But you can't just put a few variable players in a line up and tell them to interchange a bit. And Dortmund has lots of these players. Guerreiro e. g. is very good at occupying CM positions, Morey (poor guy) is good at providing width and Hakimi obviously was the perfect wing back, profile-wise.
I think you're about to fall for the same misconception as many did last year, assuming that Dortmund secretly wanted to sell. People in here were convinced that Sancho was fiercely determined to leave and Dortmund was only playing games to drive the price up. But in reality, Sancho was only for sale because Dortmund had promised him he could go for a certain fee until a certain deadline. When these conditons weren't met and they could walk away without breaking their word to the player, they did without looking back. And although people were convinced Sancho was pissed due to that, he showed absolutely no sign of frustration or anything like that. And the reports in Germany go like this again: Apparently they have a gentlemen's agreement again and Sancho is generally willing to leave but okay with staying if those conditions aren't met.
Generally, I think Sancho's personal perspective is very interesting here. I feel people sometimes forget that covid does not only affect the fees for footballers but also the salaries they're offered. There were profound reports that your first offer for him last summer was below his current wage. He'll definitely earn much more by moving next window than this one. And Dortmund would probably still get 60+m € for him - the difference might easily be covered by the UCL they could be missing out on without him. And moreover, Sancho might be secretly speculating on another club offering him a deal which so far wasn't interested due to the covid situation. I mean, it's nice that you see him as a competitor to Greenwood but generally I can't imagine that he sees himself as a RW perspectively. He's far better on the left and this might also play a role in his decision.
Now, I'm not saying he won't go to United, he totally could end up in Manchester at the end of this saga. But there are much more facets to this rumor than people accept. But based on the early signs, I wouldn't be surprised if he stays or moves to Chelsea of all clubs.
Strange you would say that considering Rashford has been one of our top three or four players this season along with Shaw, Bruno and Maguire. Sancho would often than not play with Rashford in a front three or four if he comes
Yeah maybe once Rashford retires.
Nothing wrong with Grealish, but Sancho’s profile suits us better. We need Sancho’s qualities more. His price is probably lower and at the same time he is a better long term investment both for the team and money wise.
I've not checked the stats but in this thread people are suggesting even when he's played on the right his best work is done when he actually is inside or going left, statistically.
Yea the Grealish shouts are funny when Villa were asking for 75-80M pounds last season and he's only improved since then.
They most likely won't sell him to a domestic rival for less than an English record fee so that ship has sailed at least until he decides to force his way out which I don't see happening on the horizon given his lengthy history with the club.
I'd love either/both but they'll both cost a premium and at the moment it seems Sancho will cost a bit less and is more attainable given the agreement he has with Dortmund after the season
Why would we spend 100 million on a right winger when we desperately need one only to play him on left wing when we have 2 very good players fighting to play there?
I think he will rotate across the front line until we realise our strongest lineup is Sancho striker mason. Same way Pogba is slowly forcing him out of his best position currently
What about a deal (Sancho) including Greenwood to Dortmund with a buyout clause or right to buy him back after 1-2y?
In Dortmund Greenwood will have the opportunity to develop as a striker, and perhaps Bundesliga is a better arena for him to develop right now.
In Dortmund Greenwood will have the opportunity to develop as a striker, and perhaps Bundesliga is a better arena for him to develop right now.
Mate that's probably the most terrible deal ever, for United and Greenwood
How will he develop as a striker when they have Haaland who Dortmund have already said isn't going anywhere this window?
I doubt I'm the only one to think that Rashford is a lot worse on the right, even if he can play there. Of course it can work, but without an attacking right back to push up it's less effective.
Your examples of Rashford contributing from the right really aren't that relevant if you think about it, because those aren't examples of a player taking up the position vacated by a right winger in a front 4, while that player moves freely. Against PSG he played as a striker with Martial up top, or started on the right in the other match. Against West Ham Rashford was moved to the right after Greenwood came off for Cavani and Martial moved to the left. And against Southampton it was also more of a diamond formation, with Rashford up top if I remember right.
Obviously Sancho is needed for creativity and I think he'd be a success, but I still don't think you understand what I'm talking about, judging by the examples you've given. The few examples when United either didn't play 4231, or Rashford either started on the right or was moved there after Greenwood came off.
If Sancho joins United, and Rashford plays on the left, it's not going to be Rashford's role to switch sides with Sancho whenever Sancho wanders to the left. Sure they can do that, but that's a different tactic altogether, and defeats the purpose of overloading one side. At that point you might as well just start Sancho on the left, and Rashford on the right. If you want to make the most of Sancho roaming, you need another player to push into the right channel. The most conventional thing would be for the right back to do that, but you could also have a midfielder do it and the right back to reinforce the midfield similar to Guardiola's sides. There are other ways, but the two wingers just switching sides isn't really that useful from a tactical perspective.
And no Hakimi being important isn't a myth, because it's not just about how Sancho performs but about how it works as a team. One of the reasons Dortmund have been significantly weaker this season is because they struggled to replace Hakimi. Sancho attacks from the left a lot of the time, so for his performance it doesn't matter as much who's at right back, but to the team structure Hakimi was very important.
Probably one of the most bat shit mental transfer ideas I've read on here in awhile. He's doing fantastically well here, why the hell would we do that?
Sancho will replace Martial and James in the future - whilst we lack a RW even when those 2 are in the squad aswell.
He has space here, just hope he is as good at the RW as he was in the first seasons.
He has space here, just hope he is as good at the RW as he was in the first seasons.
The posts are getting better and better
First he will replace Rashford on the left.
Next offer Greenwood to Dortmund.
How long until someone is prepared to do a Bruno - Sancho swap deal?
First he will replace Rashford on the left.
Next offer Greenwood to Dortmund.
How long until someone is prepared to do a Bruno - Sancho swap deal?
The posts are getting better and better
First he will replace Rashford on the left.
Next offer Greenwood to Dortmund.
How long until someone is prepared to do a Bruno - Sancho swap deal?
if Sancho or another good wing player comes in then certain players are going to have to give up some game time. That’s a certainty.
Who’s clearly playing the worst out of our forwards at this moment in time when it comes to work-rate, creativity and link up play (the actual role of a winger?) So yeah definitely less minutes for Rashy, it just depends on how much. Pogba is already pushing him hard on the left and sent him over to the right. Mason comes on for him and scores and assists. You can have as much tunnel vision as you like about it. It’s happening in front of you.
Creative thinking or brainstorming is the funny partThe posts are getting better and better
First he will replace Rashford on the left.
Next offer Greenwood to Dortmund.
How long until someone is prepared to do a Bruno - Sancho swap deal?
If we sign Sancho it wouldn’t be much space left for Greenwood. If we also buy a striker I’m not sure United is the right place for Greenwood to develop. He is still very young, and I think he need a couple of more years to become our regular striker.
To say Greenwood has been fantastic the last year is an exaggeration in my opinion.
Oh give over. You are acting as if Pogba has always shown his current form. Greenwood also doesn’t play well enough every game. Pogba will rotate between CM and left (if he even stays).
Rashford between left and upfront, same with Martial.
Greenwood right and upfront.
Sancho right and only left if Rashford is injured.
You are also conveniently forgetting that both Pogba and Sancho were injured + out of form long enough this season already.
Rashford will start as many games as possible with us. Even an injured and out of form Rashford is starting, how anyone can think that a recovered and a little better rested Rashford will not start is completely beyond me.
But useless arguing with you about it. You habe been on your anti Rashford agenda since his small argument with Maguire on the pitch. Dream on. Ole is going to use him regularly and rightly so.
I'm all for signing him and I hope we do eventually but I think we should get him based on
1) It is not at the expense of getting a top DM and top CB. A solid DM and top class CB (if available) is priority over Sancho or RW for me. I think a DM and a significant improvement on Lindelof will have more impact on the team than Sancho.
2) If there is competition to sign him then we should act fast and get him
1) It is not at the expense of getting a top DM and top CB. A solid DM and top class CB (if available) is priority over Sancho or RW for me. I think a DM and a significant improvement on Lindelof will have more impact on the team than Sancho.
2) If there is competition to sign him then we should act fast and get him
There’s not much point in arguing over something that hasn’t happened yet but if you can’t see Pogba already pushing Rashford over to the right and that Greenwood is much better than Rashford on the right then that’s on you. If Sancho comes in and Pogba and Cavani stay I’d say it’ll be divided equally between the wingers instead of having to play Rashford in every game no matter his form or fitness. That would actually be to the betterment of the team and Rashford too funnily enough. It would or will be nice to have other options, that’s for sure.
I'm all for signing him and I hope we do eventually but I think we should get him based on
1) It is not at the expense of getting a top DM and top CB. A solid DM and top class CB (if available) is priority over Sancho or RW for me. I think a DM and a significant improvement on Lindelof will have more impact on the team than Sancho.
2) If there is competition to sign him then we should act fast and get him
1) It is not at the expense of getting a top DM and top CB. A solid DM and top class CB (if available) is priority over Sancho or RW for me. I think a DM and a significant improvement on Lindelof will have more impact on the team than Sancho.
2) If there is competition to sign him then we should act fast and get him
The purpose of my examples are to counter your previous statement saying that we don't have players that can slot into that right winger position during a match if Sancho shifts to the left. Remember that bold post above?
Greenwood tends to be given to roam when he plays on the right and he absolutely has no problem playing with Bissaka. Mata also performed very well early of the season on the right given to roam and he absolutely had no problem playing with Bissaka. Replace them with Sancho and give the same role, why should he have problem playing with Bissaka?
The 4-1 vs Newcastle, 3-1 vs Everton, & 0-0 vs Chelsea when we had Mata and Bissaka on the right flank this season, replace Mata with Sancho, we could see better results.
Calling Bissaka not good going attack doesn't mean Ole never instruct his right back to fill the right flank spot when our RW drift centre. Our RW is still allowed to drift centre, this is where you & @Zehner don't understand. Explain picture below vs Roma, the one who had the ball was Bissaka and Cavani scored from that chance. Bissaka being not good in attack won't stop Ole to push him forward and won't affect Sancho's performance with us.
Hakimi being important as a team and in Dortmund's tactic isn't a myth. But we are not talking about Dortmund as a team or their tactic, we are talking about Sancho as an individual player and yet he still delivered and performed now on the right and left. Thus, Hakimi being important for Sancho is a myth.
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