Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?

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RkkMan said:
Not sure about him being able to play across 5 positions. His best performances have come playing from the left or as a No10 two positions we're stacked in he's never had an extended run on the RW and frankly his style of play isn't suited to the right. Sancho has proven himself equally on both wings, in the CL, 5 years younger and will be cheaper. Villa will want close to £100m for Grealish and he's nowhere near that
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He can play the front 3/4 positions. I’ve seen him for 7 years the guy is ridiculous.

alexthelion said:
Grealish doesn't play right, which is where our greatest need is.
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Our greatest need is creativity and a ball carrier.

If we are looking at the squad as a whole then I would argue having a player who could cover (start) for Rashford and Bruno and is arguably the best ball carrier in football.

You do not turn that down I’ve watched Grealish for 7 years the guy is pure box office.

I seriously understand the argument for Sancho but it is a bit risky.

Grealish would help carry the team if Bruno was injured and we wouldn’t feel any drop off in quality of Rashford was out.

I like Greenwood on the right also and he is very ready.

Kane, Grealish, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood, Diallo.

I’d be ecstatic if we could get that next season but I do trust whatever Ole does and hopefully there aren’t any VDB style transfers.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
The purpose of my examples are to counter your previous statement saying that we don't have players that can slot into that right winger position during a match if Sancho shifts to the left. Remember that bold post above?

Greenwood tends to be given to roam when he plays on the right and he absolutely has no problem playing with Bissaka. Mata also performed very well early of the season on the right given to roam and he absolutely had no problem playing with Bissaka. Replace them with Sancho and give the same role, why should he have problem playing with Bissaka?

The 4-1 vs Newcastle, 3-1 vs Everton, & 0-0 vs Chelsea when we had Mata and Bissaka on the right flank this season, replace Mata with Sancho, we could see better results.

Calling Bissaka not good going attack doesn't mean Ole never instruct his right back to fill the right flank spot when our RW drift centre. Our RW is still allowed to drift centre, this is where you & @Zehner don't understand. Explain picture below vs Roma, the one who had the ball was Bissaka and Cavani scored from that chance. Bissaka being not good in attack won't stop Ole to push him forward and won't affect Sancho's performance with us.

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Hakimi being important as a team and in Dortmund's tactic isn't a myth. But we are not talking about Dortmund as a team or their tactic, we are talking about Sancho as an individual player and yet he still delivered and performed now on the right and left. Thus, Hakimi being important for Sancho is a myth.
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I said it could be a problem, not that it has to be a problem.

And you are too focussed on whether Sancho can perform, when the more important question is how can United as a collective perform at their best with Sancho. Sancho will likely do well anyway, but it would be a waste if no adjustments are made to compensate for Sancho's roaming. Just adding him into the team will already improve United in my opinion, but the question is how to make the most of it. Sancho is doing fine without Hakimi, but the team, including Sancho, greatly benefitted from that attacking threat behind Sancho given how often he vacates that wing position.

Greenwood doesn't roam like Sancho does. And of course AWB can attack, but if Sancho occupies the RW less, then he will be expected to contribute more from that side than he currently does, and it remains to be seen if he's up to that task. It's not a binary of this will work and that won't, but a question of how to get the best team balance.
 
Boavista said:
I said it could be a problem, not that it has to be a problem.

And you are too focussed on whether Sancho can perform, when the more important question is how can United as a collective perform at their best with Sancho. Sancho will likely do well anyway, but it would be a waste if no adjustments are made to compensate for Sancho's roaming. Just adding him into the team will already improve United in my opinion, but the question is how to make the most of it. Sancho is doing fine without Hakimi, but the team, including Sancho, greatly benefitted from that attacking threat behind Sancho given how often he vacates that wing position.

Greenwood doesn't roam like Sancho does. And of course AWB can attack, but if Sancho occupies the RW less, then he will be expected to contribute more from that side than he currently does, and it remains to be seen if he's up to that task. It's not a binary of this will work and that won't, but a question of how to get the best team balance.
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I focussed on that because @Zehner believed Sancho won't perform on the right at United.

Your most important questions had been answered but it seems you don't realise it. We have seen this many times how United under Ole can perform at best in general is when their front four consist 2 playmaking type of players and 2 goalscoring type of players. This is why everytime we dropped Pogba from the front four, our performance tends to dropped drastically because we kill the balance by having 1 playmaker (Bruno) and 3 goalscorers.

And if we signs Sancho, this is where Sancho provides the balance because he is a playmaking winger. Unlike Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, his ''first'' instinct is not to score goals but find his men to pass the ball. That's how playmaker operates and we only have Bruno, Pogba & Mata but Mata is no longer the same player, thus this is what Sancho can bring into the squad and why Ole wanted him last summer.

By having Sancho, we will have 4 goalscorers (Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani) and 3 playmakers (Bruno, Pogba, & Sancho). Our squad in attack will have much more balance and we don't need to worry to rest Pogba or Bruno to maintain and get ''the best team balance''. James is not good enough in either of the category. This is why I keep telling the reason why we sign Sancho is not just about filling the right winger spot but it is to upgrade Daniel James.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
I focussed on that because @Zehner believed Sancho won't perform on the right at United.

Your most important questions had been answered but it seems you don't realise it. We have seen this many times how United under Ole can perform at best in general is when their front four consist 2 playmaking type of players and 2 goalscoring type of players. This is why everytime we dropped Pogba from the front four, our performance tends to dropped drastically because we kill the balance by having 1 playmaker (Bruno) and 3 goalscorers.

And if we signs Sancho, this is where Sancho provides the balance because he is a playmaking winger. Unlike Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, his ''first'' instinct is not to score goals but find his men to pass the ball. That's how playmaker operates and we only have Bruno, Pogba & Mata but Mata is no longer the same player, thus this is what Sancho can bring into the squad and why Ole wanted him last summer.

By having Sancho, we will have 4 goalscorers (Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani) and 3 playmakers (Bruno, Pogba, & Sancho). Our squad in attack will have much more balance and we don't need to worry to rest Pogba or Bruno to maintain and get ''the best team balance''. James is not good enough in either of the category. This is why I keep telling the reason why we sign Sancho is not just about filling the right winger spot but it is to upgrade Daniel James.
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Sure, but that's so simplistic it has very little to do with Sancho as a player, or with what was being discussed. Essentially, add one playmaker = success!

Anyway let's let leave it at that.
 
Boavista said:
Sure, but that's so simplistic it has very little to do with Sancho as a player, or with what was being discussed. Essentially, add one playmaker = success!

Anyway let's let leave it at that.
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You won't call it simplistic if you understand our no 1 problem. We had 10 draws in the league this season, 7 of them were 0-0 goalless draws.

Despite of being 2nd highest goalscoring team, our xG (expected goal) is far below City and below Chelsea & Liverpool. If we want to challenge the league then the aim is to improve the xG and close our xG gaps to City by adding a playmaker into the squad like Sancho because he is a creative winger, a playmaking winger.

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Exclude the City game, here some games that cost us when we dropped Pogba (one of our playmaker).

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UNITED ACADEMY said:
You won't call it simplistic if you understand our no 1 problem. We had 10 draws in the league this season, 7 of them were 0-0 goalless draws.

Despite of being 2nd highest goalscoring team, our xG (expected goal) is far below City and below Chelsea & Liverpool. If we want to challenge the league then the aim is to improve the xG and close our xG gaps to City by adding a playmaker into the squad like Sancho because he is a creative winger, a playmaking winger.

6DS6wB1.png


Exclude the City game, here some games that cost us when we dropped Pogba (one of our playmaker).

GEOMwDb.png

4CsP8W3.png

lojHPx4.png

YfDdP9U.png

od15ElI.png

yuu6JXA.png
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You're arguing against a point I never made.
 
I struggle to understand how there are people that can't see the benefit what Sancho will bring to help the team.

Early of this season we beat Newcastle 4-1 & beat Everton 3-1 with Juan Mata plays on the right by drift to the middle like Sancho does, people were hyping the Mata & Bruno link up and effectiveness to the team bring more balance. Imagine if we have a quicker & fit version of Mata vs Leeds?
 
laughtersassassin said:
Nonsense. We need both. Or else we can be happy with yo yoing up and down between 2nd and 6th forever
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Well I agree about fancying both in the team but we're not funded by an oil monarchy I'm afraid so both would only be feasible in Football manager or FIFA career mode at the moment...
 
Rolaholic said:
Well we're not funded by an oil monarchy I'm afraid so both is only feasible in Football manager or FIFA career mode at the moment...
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Well we already have one and our manager wanted the other last year so not exactly true is it.

We bidded more for him last year than they want this year. We will have other sales. It's very doable.

We wouldn't need to be oil funded we just need to not be leech fecked by our owners.
 
Greenwood is already a better player than Sancho. It'd be pure insanity going for him when we need to strengthen in other areas a hell of a lot more and Dortmund would still be asking for double his worth.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Well we already have one and our manager wanted the other last year so not exactly true is it.

We bidded more for him last year than they want this year. We will have other sales. It's very doable.

We wouldn't need to be oil funded we just need to not be leech fecked by our owners.
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Spending near 150m pounds on 2 players in the same window under the circumstances genuinely sounds very doable to you?
 
Rolaholic said:
Spending near 150m pounds on 2 players in the same window under the circumstances genuinely sounds very doable to you?
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About 75m pounds on Sancho and lets say 25m on back-up on RB position and that's our budget (hypothetically). After that, if we sell few players use that money on DM/CM. We could see De Gea, Lingard, Dalot, Pereira, Matić all leaving. Question is do we have 100m pounds to spend but really if we don't then there's no ambition for anything better than finishing in and around top 4.

We're not getting Grealish unless Pogba leaves. They're playing in same position. If Pogba leaves then that itself gives us funds for Grealish.
 
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UNITED ACADEMY said:
Why are we signing Grealish when we already have Pogba, Rashford, Martial and even Sancho can play on the left?
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I doubt that we would even in non-covid times personally as much as that would be great.

Would need to offload quite a few contracts to make it work squad balance wise and financially
 
Rolaholic said:
I doubt that we would even in non-covid times personally as much as that would be great.

Would need to offload quite a few contracts to make it work squad balance wise and financially
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So keep Pogba, buy Sancho will give around 70m pounds net-spend. Sell Lingard for 25m and you get around 45m net-spend. Is that not realistic?

Even if we end up buying another one without selling another player, it would be 100m net-spend at max not 150m net-spend.
 
Rolaholic said:
Spending near 150m pounds on 2 players in the same window under the circumstances genuinely sounds very doable to you?
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We already own Pogba mate. We need Sancho or a top right winger regardless of his situation.

If Pogba goes he has to be replaced. Simple as.
 
Rolaholic said:
Thought we were talking about Sancho + Grealish this whole time :lol:
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Nah. I was replying to the guy saying we only need Sancho if Pogba goes.

I misquoted another guy mentioning Grealish by mistake.

That said if Pogba goes we need a top class replacement.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Nah. I was replying to the guy saying we only need Sancho if Pogba goes.

I misquoted another guy mentioning Grealish by mistake.

That said if Pogba goes we need a top class replacement.
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Fair enough, I agree entirely. He should be first in queue target wise if Pogba does leave
 
AgentSmith said:
Rashford Cavani Sancho
Martial Greenwood Diallo
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with Pogba able to slot into that LAM role in bigger games seems nicely balanced to me. Sancho’s technical consistency is something I fee we’re lacking in attack where we can be slightly erratic with the ball, while his versatility is another bonus.

Would also allow us to move on Lingard and James (hopefully for somewhere in the region of £40-50 million) which could then be invested into the other areas of the pitch that need upgrading.
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Would much rather keep James and loan out Diallo so he can get regular game time.
 
littleman said:
Pogba left Sancho right..?
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Rashford is never going to accept being on the bench and Greenwood will have his game time cut in half.

laughtersassassin said:
Nonsense. We need both. Or else we can be happy with yo yoing up and down between 2nd and 6th forever
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It's not a video game mate, you have to think how to keep your main players happy, and I know everyone is going to say City have the likes of Bernard Silva on the bench, but a winning team with a big time manager can get away with that.
 
Devil may care said:
Rashford is never going to accept being on the bench and Greenwood will have his game time cut in half.



It's not a video game mate, you have to think how to keep your main players happy, and I know everyone is going to say City have the likes of Bernard Silva on the bench, but a winning team with a big time manager can get away with that.
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There are enough games over a season if you go deep enough in competitions.

So we shouldn't be aiming to be a winning team? That's the whole point and why the City players accept their rotational roles. It's not about being a big time manager, it's about being a good man manager which Ole is. Once we're winning and rotate well enough then the players will be happy.

We have overplayed Rashford and Bruno this season because VDB hasn't been up to speed, Pogba was injured, Cavani was out for periods and Greenwood was out of sorts with personal issues. Similar things will pop up again next season. It always happens. Enough playtime will be there for players.

Look at the bigger picture.
 
roseguy64 said:
There are enough games over a season if you go deep enough in competitions.

So we shouldn't be aiming to be a winning team? That's the whole point and why the City players accept their rotational roles. It's not about being a big time manager, it's about being a good man manager which Ole is. Once we're winning and rotate well enough then the players will be happy.

We have overplayed Rashford and Bruno this season because VDB hasn't been up to speed, Pogba was injured, Cavani was out for periods and Greenwood was out of sorts with personal issues. Similar things will pop up again next season. It always happens. Enough playtime will be there for players.

Look at the bigger picture.
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Ole has chosen not to rotate, he clearly knows in his man management capacity that Rashford, Bruno and Maguire don't like being dropped, hence he keeps playing them a ridiculous amount of the time, it's not like he hasn't had plenty of chances to rotate this season, he just chose not to. City built their way up to being able to have the bench they have, the winning had already begun before they really stacked their bench, Liverpool have won a PL and CL in the last few years and their bench isn't any better than ours. Sancho is going to cost at least £70M minimum, you don't rotate outlay like that.
 
Devil may care said:
Ole has chosen not to rotate, he clearly knows in his man management capacity that Rashford, Bruno and Maguire don't like being dropped, hence he keeps playing them a ridiculous amount of the time, it's not like he hasn't had plenty of chances to rotate this season, he just chose not to. City built their way up to being able to have the bench they have, the winning had already begun before they really stacked their bench, Liverpool have won a PL and CL in the last few years and their bench isn't any better than ours. Sancho is going to cost at least £70M minimum, you don't rotate outlay like that.
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Well, if the rotation list is James and Mata, why should he choose to rotate? That’s why Sancho comes in to replace both and at the same time maintains the level of quality if we decide to rest Rashford. Remember Cavani is also very likely to be a rotation player as he can’t play week in week out, means plenty of minutes Sancho & Rashford would get.
 
Boavista said:
I doubt I'm the only one to think that Rashford is a lot worse on the right, even if he can play there. Of course it can work, but without an attacking right back to push up it's less effective.

Your examples of Rashford contributing from the right really aren't that relevant if you think about it, because those aren't examples of a player taking up the position vacated by a right winger in a front 4, while that player moves freely. Against PSG he played as a striker with Martial up top, or started on the right in the other match. Against West Ham Rashford was moved to the right after Greenwood came off for Cavani and Martial moved to the left. And against Southampton it was also more of a diamond formation, with Rashford up top if I remember right.

Obviously Sancho is needed for creativity and I think he'd be a success, but I still don't think you understand what I'm talking about, judging by the examples you've given. The few examples when United either didn't play 4231, or Rashford either started on the right or was moved there after Greenwood came off.
If Sancho joins United, and Rashford plays on the left, it's not going to be Rashford's role to switch sides with Sancho whenever Sancho wanders to the left. Sure they can do that, but that's a different tactic altogether, and defeats the purpose of overloading one side. At that point you might as well just start Sancho on the left, and Rashford on the right. If you want to make the most of Sancho roaming, you need another player to push into the right channel. The most conventional thing would be for the right back to do that, but you could also have a midfielder do it and the right back to reinforce the midfield similar to Guardiola's sides. There are other ways, but the two wingers just switching sides isn't really that useful from a tactical perspective.

And no Hakimi being important isn't a myth, because it's not just about how Sancho performs but about how it works as a team. One of the reasons Dortmund have been significantly weaker this season is because they struggled to replace Hakimi. Sancho attacks from the left a lot of the time, so for his performance it doesn't matter as much who's at right back, but to the team structure Hakimi was very important.
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Worth mentioning that Sancho's form took a serious hit once Hakiminwas gone and it took him a while to gear up again. Sure, there were other contributing factors as well, but not only Dortmund but Sanchonhimself was affected by it. He looked toothless on the right with Meunier since he couldn't find space.

But as you say there are dozens of possibilities. After Alves was gone, Barca had Rakitic cover the right wing when Messi abandoned it. Yet it is tactically very demanding to find a solution that worka reliably. Those positional switches come at the risk of being exposed in transition if done poorly.

I feel Sancho this season is more of a 'we can't miss out on such a calibre of talent' transfer. Neither you nor Chelsea nor Liverpool are in desperate need of him right now. However, I still thinknit would be naive to plan with him as a RW. Sancho will most likely be or at least become your best attacking player and you play those where they are the strongest. I think at some point in the future you'll have to decide between Rashford and him if the former doesn't become more variable and can e. g. play as a striker or RW.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Well, if the rotation list is James and Mata, why should he choose to rotate? That’s why Sancho comes in to replace both and at the same time maintains the level of quality if we decide to rest Rashford. Remember Cavani is also very likely to be a rotation player as he can’t play week in week out, means plenty of minutes Sancho & Rashford would get.
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Van de Beek can play off the right in the same way Mata did and surely we bought Amad and Pellestri with a view to actually using them, and we know it's going to be a big enough struggle getting Rashford on the RW regularly so Pogba can play left, nevermind sitting on the bench. To me paying £70M to add an option to the 8 of Pogba/Rashford/Cavani/Martial/Mason/Bruno/VdB/Amad for the front while still starting one of McFred every week isn't smart team building, it's adding the 22 inch carbon wheels option on your Ferrari when you're yet to spec a second seat.
 
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