Think when Ole was still our manager.
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
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It's so typical of the FA dinosaurs to keep Southgate around. Rewarding failure.
To come out with quotes like this is shooting yourself in the foot big time after having completely misused Rashford in the WC.
To come out with quotes like this is shooting yourself in the foot big time after having completely misused Rashford in the WC.
Were Italy at the World Cup?
Southgate has favourtism issues which we've seen time and time again. Phillips has hardly featured this season, neither has Maguire and when they have?... There comes a point where he has to judge a player by his current performances for Club. I mean Dunk/Ben White alone should be options over even fecking Dier..
His ingame management is attrocious, he deserves credit for some results but he also is fully deserving of critiscm due to making a lot of mistakes. The fact he bought on Rashford/Sancho only to take pens against the Italian pensioners was just mind boggling bad management. + Bringing Sterling/Mount on before Rashford against France.. just
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Southgates a cnut pass it on
Were Italy at the World Cup?
Southgate has favourtism issues which we've seen time and time again. Phillips has hardly featured this season, neither has Maguire and when they have?... There comes a point where he has to judge a player by his current performances for Club. I mean Dunk/Ben White alone should be options over even fecking Dier..
His ingame management is attrocious, he deserves credit for some results but he also is fully deserving of critiscm due to making a lot of mistakes. The fact he bought on Rashford/Sancho only to take pens against the Italian pensioners was just mind boggling bad management. + Bringing Sterling/Mount on before Rashford against France.. just
But that’s how international managers work. Almost every single manager picks his team based on previous national team performances & players they trust rather than just basing it on league performance
Why would he need world class players to replace players who aren't world class?Agreed. He should dip into that absolutely incredible pool of world class players we have in both positions instead
Can't wait for Southgate to beat a team with Diego Maradona and Pele in it so his fans can criticise his critics for not praising him
Why is this thread 46 pages long?
The answer is "Yes".
The answer is "Yes".
We were lucky to beat Italy. 2 set piece goals, most of our passes were backwards and in the second half we reverted to the negative defensive dross that invited Italy onto us. We couldnt put 2 passes together by the end.
Stones Maguire is our weakest CB pairing in some time at national level yet our game plan A is to play in a style that invites pressure onto them.
I see no tactical or philosophical nous there - he sends them out to be negative and cautious and hope that some of the class players up front have a couple of quality moments. In reality we should be playing like one of the best teams in the world on the front foot all the time.
Stones Maguire is our weakest CB pairing in some time at national level yet our game plan A is to play in a style that invites pressure onto them.
I see no tactical or philosophical nous there - he sends them out to be negative and cautious and hope that some of the class players up front have a couple of quality moments. In reality we should be playing like one of the best teams in the world on the front foot all the time.
On this basis you would call the same players up again and again so don’t think it’s correct. Think it’s a bit of both but it makes a mockery when a player who has played less than 60 minutes in the PL all season gets called up.
Toney is a player who has been called up on form. The best squads combine both factors to get a decent team.
You mean the Italy team who have failed to qualify for 2 World Cups?
This. No wonder the likes of Clough never got the job .
Anyone progressive is a material upgrade on Southgate to be fair.
England's central midfield is average and the defence is quite poor. I don't think they have the players to 'play like one of the best teams in the world on the front foot all the time'.
Gareth treats the player like shit then wonders why Marcus doesn’t risk his clubs season to sit on the bench.
A jet lagged Sterling instead of Marcus v France was a travesty and he should have been sacked on the spot
A jet lagged Sterling instead of Marcus v France was a travesty and he should have been sacked on the spot
It was evident that Southgate is not a good manager since the Croatia game.
I don't support England, so I have no horse in the race, but his man management is absolute shit - he spends more time covering and excusing himself, than elevating and supporting his squad.
I don't support England, so I have no horse in the race, but his man management is absolute shit - he spends more time covering and excusing himself, than elevating and supporting his squad.
I think you done gone missed the point a bit.
You're right. They're basically San Marino.
This cnut has potentially cost England four trophies. Hes crap.
He's not shit, he's done a decent job objectively. But like Ole, his achievements are greater than his ability I feel. Does a decent job of holding things together and letting quality players do their thing, but he has so many shortcomings.
The very fact that players like Tomori aren't even being called up, his negative nonsense. England could have a top 2 / top 3 squad in the world including defense. Only the keepers are very questionnable, but due to his favoritism and cowardice, you just never get to see it.
The very fact that players like Tomori aren't even being called up, his negative nonsense. England could have a top 2 / top 3 squad in the world including defense. Only the keepers are very questionnable, but due to his favoritism and cowardice, you just never get to see it.
That’s not what I said though, they’re not peak 70s Brazil either.
Wow. Even if he mis-spoke that‘s not a good look.
Not a shite manager but a very average one. He's a "Plan A" guy, if that doesn't work he's got absolutely nothing in his locker to adjust the team accordingly. He just relies on individual brilliance of a squad which in terms of quality is probably top 3/4 in the world.
He's always been a passive aggressive twat, he definitely meant it.
It’s all well and good saying that, but in the meantime talent and quality is being squandered, both in real time and in potential development leading to an apex.
Southgate is ruinous to too many players for it to be OK.
That there isn't amazing depth?
He picked a guy who ended up playing more minutes in one game than he's played for his club all season, how exactly do you judge his level?
I also feel that that England have a lot of defenders who are capable of such things as making poor pass, "rushing" out to make a late challenge so they pick yellow card and cause the team to concede a goal.
He's a self serving wanker.
Typical of a person that knows he's not qualified but delects at every opportunity to hide the fact that he's not qualified.
This is a man that vowed to pick players on form but constantly renagades on that principle when he sees fit. The man has no principles. I find people like him the worst. Come with that air of lets be mates, I am all about team harmony but will stab you in the back at any moment.
Rashford put his health at risk so he could be available for Southgate to screw him on the bench and hang him out to dry.
He is a cnut.
Typical of a person that knows he's not qualified but delects at every opportunity to hide the fact that he's not qualified.
This is a man that vowed to pick players on form but constantly renagades on that principle when he sees fit. The man has no principles. I find people like him the worst. Come with that air of lets be mates, I am all about team harmony but will stab you in the back at any moment.
Rashford put his health at risk so he could be available for Southgate to screw him on the bench and hang him out to dry.
He is a cnut.
He will be gone after he loses in 2024 Euros but Marcus will force his way back into starting 11. And his record is that of a bottler can’t win big games in big tournaments with arguably Englands best group in ages. He needs a win in Germany to change many fans views, who won’t forget losing 0-4 to Hungary at home.And Rashford delayed surgery for this tw*t .
Not a fan of the guy, but it could be worse, you could be like Portugal and replace Santos with Roberto fecking Martinez.
I think he's a reasonable international sort. I'd say no to being a shite England manager. But I'd say yes to a contextual reading that says he has been very fortunate with tournament draws. I'd also say he has been reasonably good at handling the media, as that's part of the job as England manager. Capello and Sven did this appallingly and it's actually a valid part of the job. He does that well, he doesn't pile any additional pressure on, he cultivates a pleasant environment where people look like they want to play. That doesn't amount to being a winner, but it probably contributes to reasonable outcomes as we've seen.
I'd say wholeheartedly yes to him being a shit club manager. History says he is and logic says he wouldn't adjust well to it. You have all year to plan for a handful of matches for England and that suits his detail focused style that lacks intuitive decision making. There is limited decision making in international management compared to transfers. Despite all this planning he still handles in game situations awfully, and you have up to 50-60 match situations a season as a top club manager. So that's only going to exacerbate the frustration around him. Also I think his personality is more suited to handling staggered fixtures compared to a week on week grind where you have to continually keep a reign on players and continually challenge them.
Would not touch him with a barge pole as a PL side. I have a feeling somebody will and they will rue the day.
I'd say wholeheartedly yes to him being a shit club manager. History says he is and logic says he wouldn't adjust well to it. You have all year to plan for a handful of matches for England and that suits his detail focused style that lacks intuitive decision making. There is limited decision making in international management compared to transfers. Despite all this planning he still handles in game situations awfully, and you have up to 50-60 match situations a season as a top club manager. So that's only going to exacerbate the frustration around him. Also I think his personality is more suited to handling staggered fixtures compared to a week on week grind where you have to continually keep a reign on players and continually challenge them.
Would not touch him with a barge pole as a PL side. I have a feeling somebody will and they will rue the day.
That's a load of crap, Rice and Bellingham + 1 is a very good international midfield, and Shaw, Walker, Stones, White are all very good options at the back.
England COULD play on the front foot, or at least get creative, but Southgate is a bottom of the table level manager that plays it as safe as possible to avoid embarrassment and hope his players quality overcomes the tactical shortcomings
Absolutely mental to me that someone who has never achieved anything impressive at club lvl can become the manager of a country with such a big talent pool.
Which PL clubs would want Southgate if he left the England job tomorrow?
I criticize Deschamps a lot but he's always been at least a top 3-5 French manager (although the bar isn't very high considering how bad our managers are)
Which PL clubs would want Southgate if he left the England job tomorrow?
I criticize Deschamps a lot but he's always been at least a top 3-5 French manager (although the bar isn't very high considering how bad our managers are)
Let's examine Southgate's managerial career shall we?
He took over Middlesbrough in 06/07, achieved two mid-table PL finishes and then proceeded to get them relegated to the Championship in his third season.
Southgate was fired.
He then took over England U-21's from August 2013 to September 2016. What did he achieve in that period?
- 2013 European U-21 Championship he came rock bottom with zero points in a group that consisted of Italy, Norway and Israel. Yes, Israel. You'd be forgiven for thinking YHWH Himself intervened, but alas, no; they were just shite under Southgate. Knocked out of group stage.
-2015 European U-21 Championship he came rock bottom with three points in a group that consisted of Italy, Portugal and Sweden. Once again, shite under Southgate. Knocked out of group stage.
His reward for abject failure? The permanent England position! Nothing about his history suggested competence. How in the living feck did all that translate to a big-time promotion? You wouldn't piss capital away at a hedge fund repeatedly and then find yourself as CEO as a reward for it. But the FA, you know......
- World Cup 2018. Semi-final! Must have done tremendously to achieve that, right?! Let's see! Group stage. Scraping by Tunisia 2-1 with a 90th minute goal. Both set-piece goals, btw. Smashed the impervious Panama 6-1. Lost their first remotely difficult game vs. Belgium 1-0. Needed penalties to get past a pretty mediocre Colombia side! Fortuitously drawn against an even more mediocre Swedish side and expectedly won that. Lost to their second remotely difficult game vs. Croatia and knocked out.
- Euro 2020. Croatia aside, coasted a fairly easy group with Scotland and Czech Republic. Did well to beat Germany, although, not the German side of recent years, then got a run of Ukraine and Denmark to the final. He deserves some credit for the Croatia/Germany wins, but again, lost when it mattered. Knocked out in final.
- Nations League. Relegated from their group behind Italy, Germany and Hungary! Six games, three draws, three losses. -6 goal differential!
- World Cup 2022. Pissed a group that featured the Titans of USA, Iran and Wales. Beat a Senegal side who saw off the threat of Qatar and Ecuador in their own group to finish 2nd, and then once again lost their first difficult game in a knockout competition to France. knocked out in group stage.
With the players at his disposal, it's quite clear that he is being carried by the plethora of individual talent at his beckoning call. It would be foolish to attribute his various finishings to anything other than a set of talented players beating teams that they're expected to overcome, combined with a fortuitous series of draws to support.
He took over Middlesbrough in 06/07, achieved two mid-table PL finishes and then proceeded to get them relegated to the Championship in his third season.
Southgate was fired.
He then took over England U-21's from August 2013 to September 2016. What did he achieve in that period?
- 2013 European U-21 Championship he came rock bottom with zero points in a group that consisted of Italy, Norway and Israel. Yes, Israel. You'd be forgiven for thinking YHWH Himself intervened, but alas, no; they were just shite under Southgate. Knocked out of group stage.
-2015 European U-21 Championship he came rock bottom with three points in a group that consisted of Italy, Portugal and Sweden. Once again, shite under Southgate. Knocked out of group stage.
His reward for abject failure? The permanent England position! Nothing about his history suggested competence. How in the living feck did all that translate to a big-time promotion? You wouldn't piss capital away at a hedge fund repeatedly and then find yourself as CEO as a reward for it. But the FA, you know......
- World Cup 2018. Semi-final! Must have done tremendously to achieve that, right?! Let's see! Group stage. Scraping by Tunisia 2-1 with a 90th minute goal. Both set-piece goals, btw. Smashed the impervious Panama 6-1. Lost their first remotely difficult game vs. Belgium 1-0. Needed penalties to get past a pretty mediocre Colombia side! Fortuitously drawn against an even more mediocre Swedish side and expectedly won that. Lost to their second remotely difficult game vs. Croatia and knocked out.
- Euro 2020. Croatia aside, coasted a fairly easy group with Scotland and Czech Republic. Did well to beat Germany, although, not the German side of recent years, then got a run of Ukraine and Denmark to the final. He deserves some credit for the Croatia/Germany wins, but again, lost when it mattered. Knocked out in final.
- Nations League. Relegated from their group behind Italy, Germany and Hungary! Six games, three draws, three losses. -6 goal differential!
- World Cup 2022. Pissed a group that featured the Titans of USA, Iran and Wales. Beat a Senegal side who saw off the threat of Qatar and Ecuador in their own group to finish 2nd, and then once again lost their first difficult game in a knockout competition to France. knocked out in group stage.
With the players at his disposal, it's quite clear that he is being carried by the plethora of individual talent at his beckoning call. It would be foolish to attribute his various finishings to anything other than a set of talented players beating teams that they're expected to overcome, combined with a fortuitous series of draws to support.
Harsh thread title. He got Middlesbrough relegated so he's been shite at more than just England
Managing at club level is a very different kettle of fish to international level, not everyone is good at both, and I'd hardly call England as having a bit talent pool
Rice and Bellingham aren't average. They might not be absolutely world class but they're both excellent players. Henderson is an experienced club captain with a number of medals. The full backs are some of the best in the world, particularly when James is fit.
Apologising for Southgate and finding excuses is a really difficult job with the number and magnitude of his poor decisions but let's not make stuff up. It's only the CBs that are very average and Southgate doesn't exactly experiment much with them anyway. I mean Maguire and Stones fair enough, having favourites and players you trust is important, but what has Dier shown in the last 5+ years to suggest he should be there? I wouldn't mind if he were there for DM cover but he hasn't played there for years now for club or country. A specialist in failure.
Every time he looks like he might be correcting (some of his) past mistakes he manages to find new headscratchers to pull out of the bag. For example, dropping Mount and Sterling - good. Playing Kalvin Phillips for I think the full game after he'd had a very average first half and an utterly appalling 2nd and has barely played 90mins all season - not so good.
Shite
I was referring to the players when I said big talent pool.
Managing at club level is what is supposed to earn you a NT job.
Southgate and the FA ... a perfect fit ( For them ), not so good for anyone that supports England