So was I, you really think England have a huge talent pool?
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
- Thread starter VP89
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England, huge talent pool..
anyone that thinks that is crazy. Fully fit we have a strong core of about 10-11 players. A fee average players on the bench. Rest are pretty much garbage. Realistically you are looking at 16-18 players and that’s pushing it.A good few of the squad get into the majority of the best international 11s:
Kane
Bellingham
Saka
A few more players would make it into alot of best international 11s:
Rashord
Shaw
James
Rice
Thats 7 of a starting 11. England's obvious issues are CB the 3 midfielder and GK buy even saying that, playing foden or maddison in there would be good enough to play against all but a handful of countries.
To say Southgate hasn't a world class international team is a lie.
Kane
Bellingham
Saka
A few more players would make it into alot of best international 11s:
Rashord
Shaw
James
Rice
Thats 7 of a starting 11. England's obvious issues are CB the 3 midfielder and GK buy even saying that, playing foden or maddison in there would be good enough to play against all but a handful of countries.
To say Southgate hasn't a world class international team is a lie.
He doesn't use his squad anyway so all he needs is 13 to 15England, huge talent pool..
England, huge talent pool..
Compared to most international teams (not club teams), England have a strong talent pool. Besides France, I’m struggling to think of many teams with more talent at their disposal.
Agreed - England does have a core of good to very good players. Think only France is indisputably better talent wise - all the other big contenders Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain are there or thereabouts from a talent pool. How you use that talent is what sets a good coach/manager apart, and I don't think Southgate is that special.
He’s very limited, shite at some things and not at others.
You just have to look at what the likes of ETH have done with our squad, and with bud game management, to see what is possible with a proper coach/manager.
I personally think the FA want this safe option after so many other managers ended with scandal or bigger failures. They’re happy to take his failings as long as he doesn’t rock the boat.
You just have to look at what the likes of ETH have done with our squad, and with bud game management, to see what is possible with a proper coach/manager.
I personally think the FA want this safe option after so many other managers ended with scandal or bigger failures. They’re happy to take his failings as long as he doesn’t rock the boat.
I just fell down a rabbit hole comparing players and national teams. An hour later, I would say that they don't get in Brazil, Argentina, or France, but they get in the remaining 4-10 internationally ranked teams (England obviously being one of them).
So you say he has 4 players that get into most international teams and still say he hasn't a world class team? At international level that's world class
Only France is clearly ahead of England.
Brazil,Portugal and Germany are in the same bracket and Argentina/Spain are a notch below
It was the definition of "most teams" that got me, initially. I don't think they get in the top 3. Having 4 top players in a side filled with journeyman is basically the case for Belgium, Portugal, Holland, Croatia, Spain, Germany. I think the initial point was that Southgate had so many incredible talents, but I think he's got about the same number as most of the other top 10 teams.
A better manager could possibly get them over the line and win something with this group but he's done better than any other England manager in my lifetime. He's gotten better results than was ever gotten out of the golden generation.
Also I imagine Southgate to be cheap.
But the other England players are not journeymen other than CBs and GK. They are generally better than their equivalents in the teams you mention. They are also mostly better than Argentina with some exceptions such as Martinez, Di Maria and the obvious one. Brazil as well play Fred and a bloke who has spent his career at Watford, Everton and the Spurs bench.
Good point, after the blew so much money on Sven, Capello, Allardyce etc they probably wanted to tighten the purse strings
Because he is the weakest manager in your lifetime. He is England's Ole, the players like him and he lets them play how they want. They are happy and when you have a squad as talented as they both had, that will work in most games. It wont get you over the line against other top teams though and when some big players start to disagree with each other, you cant keep them all happy any longer. That was the beginning of the end for Ole and i could see it being the same for Southgate.
You could see all this unfolding after that Croatia game but fair enough, he deserved another tournament. After the Euros it was all too clear he was the one holding us back, and by Qatar we knew we were going to waste another generation.
So who do you replace him with?
They got burned with "top" foreign coaches so I don't see them going that way, which English manager could it be?
Who the heck plays a has been as sterling over an in form Rashford? This guy is nuts.
That’s a harsh judgement. Apart from the early 90s and from 2010 to 2016, most England managers have had some very talented players to pick. To put it another way, when was the last time an England manager outperformed according to your criteria?
Southgate is a yes man favoured by the hierarchy for his interview abilities than football know how. Every time England face a team in form its bye bye and excuses. The reward for Southgate is more of the same. Very british thing to do nowadays, rewarding failure that is.
Weakest meaning the worst? I definitely can't agree with that. Where do you rank him among the other England managers? A quick look at Wikipedia shows the following about England:
- They've only ever gotten beyond the quarter-finals of a tournament 6 times (2 of those under Southgate).
- The last time they were in a semi-final was in 96' with Venables.
- The only other time they were in a final was in 66'.
Why isn't he SGS?
Edit: Oh, OBE is second to CBE but ahead of MBE
WTF
Edit: Oh, OBE is second to CBE but ahead of MBE
WTF
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Apart from Nations league games vs Hungary which was so bad then I think England in general looked good and solid under Southgate.
I guess what England do lack is that mental strenght and winning mentality. They lost on pens vs Italy. Lost in extra time vs Croatia and Kane missed a pen that cost them vs France. It is typical England to go out like that.
Scaloni for example brought that to Argentina in an impressive way. Southgate has mainly got England playing as well as expected, but I think he is using his squad quite well with a good mix of giving players a chance while also keeping his core that performs for him.
I guess what England do lack is that mental strenght and winning mentality. They lost on pens vs Italy. Lost in extra time vs Croatia and Kane missed a pen that cost them vs France. It is typical England to go out like that.
Scaloni for example brought that to Argentina in an impressive way. Southgate has mainly got England playing as well as expected, but I think he is using his squad quite well with a good mix of giving players a chance while also keeping his core that performs for him.
I blame Southgate for stories like this. He knew what he was doing with the snarky comments about Rashford's availability. Gives the greenlight to anyone waiting to have a go to jump on it.
Again, Gareth knew what he was doing and for that reason he's a utter twat.
ultimately it doesn't really matter, if Rashford maintains good form he will still get picked for England
He’s a coward of a manager.
Can’t wait until England get rid of him and he has to take on a club team.
Don't like him
He has done with tournament placings. Yes it is true. However it coincided with an improvement in player development within the country and the decline of the stronger nations. Would he have done so well whilst challenging previous Germany and Spanish sides? I doubt it.
On his own ability, Is there any games he has won with his tactical ability, substitutions or game management? Nothing really comes to mind. Though he has cost us games by being reactive as opposed to proactive. Such as the European final against Italy.
As far as tactics are concerned his most successful tournament runs have utilized variations of Chelsea’s formation. Though it’s never been a clean copy, he tends to pigeonhole players into gaps rather than pick a squad that fits “his” tactics. England have always seemed rather clunky and rigid in a 3-4-3, rather than its main strength of being incredible malleable - that it can be any number of shapes throughout 90 mins.
On his substitutions. They’re usually an Ole out of 10. Poor, badly timed and his questionable squad selections often lead to a lack of options on the bench, be it from form, fitness, quality or positional coverage. You can consistently question his choices.
In reference to his predecessors, he has done a brilliant job. At least on paper. But history books aren’t always correct, stats can be misleading and reports can be bias.
He should have left after the WC though he likely realises he won’t get a better paying or more secure job. I predict he will float around the international scene much like Martinez, conning nations and robbing fans of a decent generation of talent and possible success.
Stuff like this is despicable, anyone with a small brain would know the right wing press will target Rashford with anything so why give them ammunition. Complete Cnut.
@#07 @TheGame Ian Ladyman is a thundering turd of the lowest calibre and needs all his articles flushed through with saltwater. I'd completely ignore his shitstirring at best, and ban him Fergie style from any conferences at worst. Embarrassing "journalist" for an embarrassing tabloid endlessly trying to pull one on our club and players. Rashford doesn't deserve any of this.
Don't think he is shite at all. He lead England to Euro final 2 years ago (even though it was probably the most cowardly/poor final display), and I really thought England really looked very strong and playing great football during the WC (unlucky to loss to France), and he was also right about Saka when he kept playing him in the Euro ahead of the likes of Sancho, when the whole nation is crying out for Sancho instead.
Thanks, sounds like another Daily Mail gobshite.
Weakest in terms of managerial ability.
This is the best, or at very least second best, generation we have had probably since 1966. Also certainly the most harmonious thanks to some of our ex players. We have players good enough to win most games on their own, without much coaching. They already know what to do from club football.
What Southgate has cracked is allowing them to do just that, play exactly how they do for their clubs i.e he barely coaches them. Works against most teams but will always fail against anybody who has equally good individuals. With easy draws we've gone far in some tournaments but he's nowhere near the level of a Sven or Capello and will fail spectacularly if he ever goes back to club management.
Who cares. The England Team for the Euros will be decided on the players form next season.
If Rashy has a season similar to this years, he will be the first pick on the left wing.
If Rashy has a season similar to this years, he will be the first pick on the left wing.
It absolutely won’t. It’s already been decided on reputation - that reputation being how these players have done under Southgate.
Southgate is the Ole of England managers. He's nice and safe and does a decent job. He has his favorites and nothing is cutting edge. Its all beige. There will always be a split in the fanbase of some thinking that's good enough and others saying its not. The truth is that he's decent but he will only get you so far. The problem with international level is that there is not a pool of next level managers waiting to step up. Would a Pochettino/Nagelsmann take the job? I doubt it.
His squad selections are notoriously criminal. I understand that some positional coverage, like CB, we are absolutely shallow but he is a thick cnut who picks his pets. There’s the odd chance he will select a random FOTM but you can absolutely bet beyond capping them he won’t give them a chance.
Would he have done better than sven or hoddle had he gotten the same type of sides in the knock out stages, southgate would have been just as cowardly and reactive as sven was and I doubt he even would have got to penalties against Argentina back in 98 which was a really good Argentina side and we know how southgate fairs against the really good sides, not very well.
Globe trotting, they are trying to get a message across as if rashford has been on a world tour during the past week.
If it was up to the daily mail, all black footballers would play for free like slaves and never dare leave their house except for training and matchday