Pep, Klopp or Ancelotti.
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
- Thread starter VP89
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... to be clear, my question assumes Southgate leaves in the next few weeks.
No one's worthy of replacing Sir Gareth. Absolutely no one... since 100% match winner Big Sam, there's aura of pure win and success.
Southgate stays and we have Let's laugh at England thread runnning forever.
We go for eet !
Mourinho.
Enrique, Poch or Tuchel. Spain were very good in possession just couldn't finish their chances and lacked clinical players within the squad. I think England need a coach who will get more out of the players. All of the above are an immediate upgrade to Southgate.
I'm worried Tuchel will chuck in the old 5 at the back.
Also I don't think a nation has ever won the WC with a non native manager.
I think you're over rating Italy, they were on a good run but they were hardly better than England and England should have beaten them.
Italy not qualifying for the world cup shows that the team was overachieving
People actually still think... 
Sorry. Lock him into the contract. Sign the thing. Generational talent as a manager. Need to lock him down now. Give him a long-term contract and watch football come home !
Sorry. Lock him into the contract. Sign the thing. Generational talent as a manager. Need to lock him down now. Give him a long-term contract and watch football come home !
I think England and Italy 2021 were on a similar level and the home advantage could have tilted the scales in England’s favour. But generally (if we are assessing Mancini’s Italy) it’s more reasonable to draw conclusions from Italy going on that record 37 undefeated streak and qualifying to the final 4 of NL twice than simply cherrypick the one competition they failed in (WC qualifiers), especially given that Jorginho (Mr 90%) scoring one of his two penalties vs Switzerland would have avoided that failure… The teams that played and gave Italy space at the Euros ended up conceding more goals… It was smart to try to contain them and keep the 1-0 for as long as possible. England could have been the team enjoying some spaces to break and score the second had they managed to resist a bit longer…
I think England could have beaten them, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to keep beating Southgate with that stick. That Itlay had some players who had already won some important games against big teams. Very few in that England squad had any experience facing big teams to begin with, let alone defeat them.
He wouldn't get another PL job or job for any other top international country. Hell, even Ireland, Scotland and Wales wouldn't take him if they were looking for a new manager. Why should he be given more time to waste with England? He's done an ok job, now it's time to go.
Given that he is a D tier manager, a great deal of names. The list is too large for me to care about. At this point I’d happily take a low B/ high C tier manager over him
There’s definitely a type of progressive/left wing England fan who cares more about how this team makes them feel rather than actual results(Tbh there isn’t any trophies to celebrate)
They see this team as showing the best of multicultural England(Whatever the feck that means)and for them Southgate is like their least racist family member because they think his second favourite film is Get Out. They don’t feel as embarrassed to go to games now because Kane wears a gay rights armband(But only if there’s no risk involved)and the players take the knee before kick off, compared to the John Terry years. Which I guess is somewhat understandable.
There was a guardian article from yesterday saying asking the question “Does England deserve Southgate” and compare people who have criticised the England manager to anti vaccine people.
It’s all just another case of hyper politics. People have no actual power so are trying to insert it into meaningless cultural spectacles.
Yes someone did link that article in this thread I believe: ‘Do England deserve Southgate?’ I did have to question whether anyone deserved to read the obnoxious article.
it’s good he’s got good values, but sad that this is apparently a key factor in the metric of desirable England manager qualities.
England have one of the three best squads (with France and Brazil) in my opinion.
Most national coaches are average.
So if Tuchel or Pochettino would be interested for the job then The FA would be stupid to keep Southgate (Of course they are stupid).
Southgate has done a good job....but it was nothing special!!!!!
This squad with Tuchel or Pochettino as coach then England would be the favourites for the Euros.
Most national coaches are average.
So if Tuchel or Pochettino would be interested for the job then The FA would be stupid to keep Southgate (Of course they are stupid).
Southgate has done a good job....but it was nothing special!!!!!
This squad with Tuchel or Pochettino as coach then England would be the favourites for the Euros.
Thinking about the transformation of the England cricket team as a result of a far more positive, adventurous and attack minded approach, I was wondering whether such a strategy might work for you football team.
Instead of setting them up to contain and stop the other team from scoring, especially in the first half, sending them out to attack and get an early goal. And then to dominate. And if the opposition score first, there is still plenty of time to pull it back.
Instead of setting them up to contain and stop the other team from scoring, especially in the first half, sending them out to attack and get an early goal. And then to dominate. And if the opposition score first, there is still plenty of time to pull it back.
You probably misunderstood what I said --- again! My opinion is that Southgate did extremely well, contrary to what most people here believe and people should be more respectful towards him. I think the title of this thread is a disgrace! Why do you allow it? Southgate did better with a group which is less talented as individuals than squads of the past... and people call him "shiite"? Really? Everyone knows Beckham and Scholes, in 20 years who will remember Saka and Henderson? I am not English, I shouldn't really care, but I think that people are way too harsh and ungrateful. It is not that England used to win a lot of trophies in the past.
But I also believe that there are no "foundations" with a National Team. This term, "foundations", means nothing in practice. These "foundations" you are talking about in your post is just the history that Southgate has with this particular group. The next manager does not inherit this history, he will not tell these guys "remember when we got to the final? you have to try twice as hard this time". The next manager starts over.
Actually, it is probably the same with any team, not just the NT. Ole got to two finals, lost both. People talked about Ole setting the "foundations" and that another, better manager needs to use these "foundations" for the next step, win something. Now nobody talks about ETH using these "Ole foundations". Because there are no foundations! If ETH is a better manager, he will do better than Ole. If the next manager of England is better than Southgate, he will do better (meaning he will win a trophy, which is not easy).
As a non-Englander, what I took away from that article is that it's possible that English fans deserve a manager of the likes of Sven, Woy... Given that their best manager in a while (in terms of results and yeah all those other values) isn't thought much of by a good swathe of the fan base.
Im glad you were able to derive some value from the article, have a sweetie.
You can’t really expect the British public to communicate in a civilised manner. He’s a good, likeable, modest bloke… great. Hardly a minority questioning his decision making in the middle of key games though, which I do think is ultimately more important if your job is manager of a very good international foothall team.
Also not sure referring to Roy hodgson as ‘Woy’ is much in keeping with Southgate’s values of diversity and inclusivity….
Watch together stronger 3 part doc on IPlayer. That will show you foundations in national team.
there are foundations and teams get built around a bond. There’s a massive focus on tactics and subs these days but team morale and togetherness takes you long way on international stage imo and to his credit Southgate seems to have created that far more than any Previous England manger, and has taken his teams further into competitions (I know they’ve also had ‘easy’ fixtures).
A new manger may come in and change a few players and tactics but there’s more of a bond and togetherness around the team now.
Considering Henderson has won the PL with Liverpool as captain I think a lot of their fans will remember him. He's also had a better England career than Scholes...Saka who knows what the future holds but he has incredible potential and can be one of the best wingers in the world.
Who is saying he needs to tell them that? You don't think an aspect of purchasing a player is because they have top level experience and show they have the mentality to win things such as Casemiro? I doubt EtH says to him before every game 'you're a 5 times CL winner', go do your stuff. He doesn't need to. Experience isn't something you need to tell people every game, but it's valuable to have as a learnt trait, which a lot of these English players have, thanks to Southgate as much as themselves.
That's fine if you don't think there are foundations but I and clearly many others do.
Given the complaints about Spain this WC...
Tuchel flattered to deceive post CL with Chelsea
Porch wouldn't be a bad fit given the caliber of players England has.
Thought experiment…… What do you think outcome would have been if Southgate had WC squad of 2014? Better than Roy? Out of the group…?
puhlease. Germany would have been murdered by Senegal. We were so poor defensively. Given Japan beat us too I doubt we'd have done that well vs USA nor Wales.
True, it was overachieving by scoring goals. Doesn't change the fact that team went through the tournament like a buzzsaw, Spain excluded, and if the forwards are in form and scoring, it's a team with Donnarumma, Chiellini, Bonucci, Jorginho, Verratti, Barella, Chiesa and Insigne. Hardly chumps. The midfielders, GK and CBs were quite simply better than anything England had. The forwards were worse, but still very good and Chiesa in particular was in great form. England was never going to dominate a team like that, not in a final, after 6 games in the space of a month. The only weapon they could realistically throw against that midfield was energy and aggression, something they did really well while they had enough energy for it. After that, the only move left was trying Graelish, to win a few fouls and try to get England out of their box for stretches. Southgate's game management in the second half was subpar, but also England defended really well in a low block and the goal came off a set piece. Ultimately he was facing a team of comparable quality, with personnel and playing style that meant England were always going to spend most of the game sitting deep, and lost on penalties
England shouldn't have beaten them. It could have, but it was always going to be a 50/50 game. Decided by a lottery
No. It's a utter bull! The likes of Fergie, Wenger, and Mourinho to name a few were at the peak of their powers coaching the previous Golden generation. Yet they never became a team inspite of all that world class coaching they received at club level. To pretend its different now is laughable in the extreme. Its the man in charge who is reponsible for moulding them into a competent international team. Not any coaching they receive at club level.
If the lame theory was true. Italy during the peak of Serir A through out the 90s would have won both the world cup and the euros. Instead they didn't do so till 2006, when Serie A had been over taken as too dog plus didn't capture a Euros till 2020 with the Serie A a 3rd best league around europe
Do you guys believe that Didier Deschamps is better than Southgate? Would you be happy if England hired Deschamps in the future? Say, two months from now.
What about Fernando Santos? Portugal won a Euro, England has never done it.
What about Fernando Santos? Portugal won a Euro, England has never done it.
The man who is probably going to take France to two consecutive World Cup finals? (Likely winning both)
I think so yeah.
But France have considerably better players than England
Southgate got to a semi and a quarter and with the players available it’s about right
England have not won a World Cup in the last 50 years because youse range from shite to average to decent at best.
Again: I am not English. I am sure that people in England remember a lot of players that us, foreigners, do not care about. For example, I know that Walker plays for City, so he probably won the PL, but everyone I know will say "Walker who?".
But England played better than France. Or at least that's how I felt during the game. Kane missed a penalty, Giroud scored, but overall I think England was better.
Deschamps has won multiple titles as a senior club and national manager. Southgate has won nothing as a senior manager.
People who say England should keep Southgate have one trait in common with him. They are so risk-averse that it's ridiculous. Humanity would still have been in dark ages had we not had individuals who were willing to dip into the unknown.
So, I guess you'd love him as the next manager. Then the FA should give him a lot of money and get him.
If he doesn't want to come, what about Fernando Santos? He has won stuff too.
Perhaps it is time to part with Southgate and try their luck with another manager. Perhaps England should keep Southgate for 2 more years. I have no idea what the best decision is in this case. Perhaps these loses are weighting a lot on him, and he will resign anyway, who knows?
But either way, for many of us, the non-English people like me (and the majority of the 7 billion on this earth are not English!) ... Southgate has been a good manager for England. Much better than the previous managers England had in the past 30 years that I am watching them. And he seems a nice guy too. I do not understand why people are so harsh to him. It is different to say '"it is time we try something else", and it is very different to say "Southgate is shiite".
Just wonder if Southgate would’ve been more decisive had he taken a more experienced & influential assistant? What role did Steve Holland play in Southgate’s approach to the game on Saturday?
Would for example Maclaren, have been any better at convincing him to make necessary changes sooner rather than reacting after France had scored ?
Would for example Maclaren, have been any better at convincing him to make necessary changes sooner rather than reacting after France had scored ?
He's been the best England manager In my lifetime. Okay he's unfashionable and maybe it's time to give someone else a go, but Capello, Hodgson and Stheve were absolutely terrible. Let's not forget that.
Again like united, England should be more proactive and ruthless in getting the best as manager of the team, if they have to be English then I say just sit it out with southgate until howe or potter become available which I can see happening by the summer with at least one of them.
It's not that much of a difference.
England created far less than France and deservedly got beat.
It would have been a much tougher night had the French defenders not been incredibly rash with their challenges in and around the box.
Take the two penalties away, England was just not much of a force attacking-wise relative to the attacking players they possess.
Southgate has done a great job off the pitch and a good one on it.
In my view the quality of top class opponents is far less than it used to be. That's what disappoints me the most. Our squad is as strong as any other and overflowing with attacking talent. So I don't really see why we should be satisfied with losing every time we face a good team in a crunch game.
Especially, when we hardly seem to utilise the attacking talent we have on our bench. That to me seems to be the biggest advantage we have over our rivals. Yet, not once in any of our crunch games in the last 3 tournaments, have we given our attack enough time or opportunity to really make a difference.
In my view, we would not have beaten 2018 France, but we could, and probably should, have beaten Italy, and we were as good as anybody else in this WC.
So, left feeling disappointed really. Just cant shake the feeling that with a bit more courage and adventure we could be celebrating having won at least 1 of the last 2 tournaments.
In my view the quality of top class opponents is far less than it used to be. That's what disappoints me the most. Our squad is as strong as any other and overflowing with attacking talent. So I don't really see why we should be satisfied with losing every time we face a good team in a crunch game.
Especially, when we hardly seem to utilise the attacking talent we have on our bench. That to me seems to be the biggest advantage we have over our rivals. Yet, not once in any of our crunch games in the last 3 tournaments, have we given our attack enough time or opportunity to really make a difference.
In my view, we would not have beaten 2018 France, but we could, and probably should, have beaten Italy, and we were as good as anybody else in this WC.
So, left feeling disappointed really. Just cant shake the feeling that with a bit more courage and adventure we could be celebrating having won at least 1 of the last 2 tournaments.