Gareth Southgate but the S is silent.
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
- Thread starter VP89
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Gareth silentouthgate
See you in 18 months for same discussion then when he makes it FOUR failures in a row. Ah well maybe the FA's only options Howe and Potter might be ready for 2026 qualifiers.
First time for everything but don't worry Southgate FC he will be dragging us to Germany.
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Why England must be managed by an English manager? We all know that English managers are shit or at least not at the very top in term of most desirable manager.
What is wrong to give the job to the best person? Meritocracy? It's 2022 and we are still giving a job to a person based on his nationality?
There are a lot of non-english manager out there who are better than Southgate.
What is wrong to give the job to the best person? Meritocracy? It's 2022 and we are still giving a job to a person based on his nationality?
There are a lot of non-english manager out there who are better than Southgate.
No, Gareth Outhgate
Gareth Out of gate
Because he went out of World Cup
Hahaha get it?
I'll get my coat.
Absolutely right,I like Pochettino but do worry he lacks that winner mentality. I haven't got that fear with Tuchel, Enrique or Deschamps but are the FA remotely interested in appointing them.The trouble is his mates in the media and ex players turned pundits feed this narrative as well.
How can someone who has cost England a World Cup Final, European Championship and minimum World Cup Semi Final still be in a job,baffling
Yeah, the woe is me act sums up his mentality.
He's not even had it hard in the slightest, the media by and large are backing him. Maybe he reads the caf.
I don't think he's a great manager, his record (club or International) does not support such a claim.
He's a limited manager, nothing wrong with that, but six years, three tournaments (benefitting from some v v v favourable draws..), with no real footballing powerhouse dictating the world stage, and most importantly, with the players at his disposal, he should have achieved more. Isn't he the highest paid manager in International football?
Furthermore, and this is key, England play v nervous football under Southgate, and it does not win tournaments because you get found out. What have we deserved to win under Southgate?
France were not even that good against us, but you couldn't say they were lucky.
Southgate needs to decide whether he can take the team onto that next level. That means changing his anxious, risk-averse nature.
He's a limited manager, nothing wrong with that, but six years, three tournaments (benefitting from some v v v favourable draws..), with no real footballing powerhouse dictating the world stage, and most importantly, with the players at his disposal, he should have achieved more. Isn't he the highest paid manager in International football?
Furthermore, and this is key, England play v nervous football under Southgate, and it does not win tournaments because you get found out. What have we deserved to win under Southgate?
France were not even that good against us, but you couldn't say they were lucky.
Southgate needs to decide whether he can take the team onto that next level. That means changing his anxious, risk-averse nature.
If he were chocolate he’d eat himself, everything he does is a reflection of self and that charade about taking his time to make the right decision blabber was nauseating. He has no intention of leaving.
Ramsdale
James - Tomori - Stones - Shaw
Bellingham - Rice
Foden
Saka - Kane - Rashford
The fact we won’t see such a team or one close to it shows that he has his favorites and needs to be fired.
James - Tomori - Stones - Shaw
Bellingham - Rice
Foden
Saka - Kane - Rashford
The fact we won’t see such a team or one close to it shows that he has his favorites and needs to be fired.
Yeah, it's extremely close, as illustrated by the weak links on the team being Upamecano (it's just a tad bit early for him) and Maguire at CB and Rabiot and Henderson at #8. Saka/Dembele being really close, Mbappe is better than Kane but Giroud (as much praise as he's getting) and Foden are close. Bellingham and Griezmann similar, with Bellingham's lack of experience leading to him staying on Rabiot rather than going out to stop Griezmann's game winning cross. Tchouameni looks like he'll be better than Rice very soon but they're still close now.
These teams are extremely similar. Only Mbappe, Kane, Varane, Walker and Griezmann are nailed on starters for me. Theo's attacking makes him a viable option to me over Shaw in some matchups and Bellingham probably gets in because France are maybe a little too reliant on Griezmann creatively, which I think Morocco can illustrate if they're healthy enough.
I know, ridiculous right? And who says England even need to play with English players?
There's a few problems I have with this strange thought process.
Firstly, it's international football, not club football. The nationality part is kind of inherent in the very structure of the competition, otherwise what is the point? Secondly, the overwhelming majority of international teams have a home manager. In fact, England is one of the very exceptions to this rule in the recent past writh egards to European teams. And thirdly, almost nobody managing an international team is a particularly good manager. Had any of the 32 managers other than LVG/Deschamps or Enrique had anything approaching a semi reasonable club managerial career?
Why? Every manager has their favourites. James was injured and Walker has also played at a top level for a long time. As crap as they've been for their clubs, Maguire and Pickford weren't really the reason for the exit and have been pretty good generally for England.
I don't think he's a good manager and certainly not at club level but I also think some of the criticism he gets can be unfair. I saw in one of the other threads about how he won't change from his usual formation / styele of play etc, even though he was literally criticised for playing 5 at the back before and would 100% have been crucified had he done so again out of fear of France.
you can disagree, but it’s a fact. No other England side has been as consistent as this aside from the team that won it. I don’t rate Southgate but he’s clearly brought something to the table that other England managers and squads couldn’t do.
Also I may be in a minority but I’d consider the QF as deep into the tournament. By that point you’ve played five games with only two left.
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Well for me - during the match vs France it was becoming obvious that Henderson was the player that needed to come off the pitch.
Also at the same time, every time Foden played/moved centrally - we looked more dangerous.
All he had to do was to swap Foden for Henderson and bring Rashford on for Henderson and we would have probably gone on a lead. There was this one attack Rashford and Kane was linking up beautifully in the last 4 mins of the game.
The reason Southgate didn’t go attacking with attacking players is because he wanted to be defensive stable with Henderson on the middle of the pitch - the same reason we lost to Italy because we went defensive on the back of our defense.
We were controlling the match Vs France - but all that we lacked was our version of Greizmann in the middle of the pitch trying to make things happen. He went for Henderson instead of Foden.
Soon as he bought on Sterling and Mount it was obvious we were never going to snatch a goal back.
The starting team vs France was pretty close.
Ramsdale is better than Pickford, not any doubt there. Pope is too, but he blew his chance earlier in the year.
James is injured.
Is Tomori really any better than Maguire?
And Rashford is coming off the back of 18 months of really poor form, he's been decent for Utd but even still he hasn't been pulling up any trees.
Maddison should be in there in front of Rice and Bellingham and let Foden and Saka take up the wide spots. Maddison is the best English attacking midfelder in the league, not giving him any proper time to play and playing the invisible man Mount ahead of him is criminal.
I know a lot of nations like to have the same nationality in charge of the team but what other English manager could we take? 2 at the top of my head would be potter and Eddie Howe. Otherwise we need to look elsewhere.. pochettino would have got a lot more from this squad and they’d of enjoyed playing for him with attacking freedom. Don’t think he’ll take the job though as he’ll want a club team.
I think if we get back to the football and the team, you have the following likely starters for 2024:
Kane - Old and slow but probably England's best 9 still. Do you ask him to be a target man like Giroud or let him keep dropping and hope Rashford or another goal threat on the left can step up and commit to Bellingham and Foden ahead of Rice in midfield? Rashford's form has been inconsistent and I'd have to actually watch Foden in midfield to have a sense of if he can put in the work and be near as good positionally as a #10 in international football like Modric or Griezmann has to be. Seems like it's asking a lot from him. Maddison is a pure #10 and seems to be hitting his peak around 26 like the player he most resembles to me, Wesley Sneijder.
Bellingham, Rice - Nailed on, only question is who the 3rd man is with him and Rice in midfield, or do you just play the 2 of them and either 3 at the back or a pure #10 type, or even a 4-4-2 with Foden and Saka out wide and Rashford up top (but wide left, the Madrid Cristiano role) with Kane to give England a real threat in behind.
Shaw - Probably, I'm not a huge Chilwell guy when it's 4 at the back
James - Assuming no injury concerns or Livramento becoming his equal.
So, ultimately let's say you're looking like this in 2 years:
Rashford-------------Kane-----------------------
---------------------------------Foden-----------Saka
-----------------Bellingham------------------------
Shaw------------------Rice-------------------James
---------------Guehi----------Stones-----------------
---------------------------Ramsdale-------------------
Which would be my best guess, though Guehi is chosen mainly for being left-footed. Maybe Maddison as a 10 and Foden is the super-sub because he's just a more natural #10 and Foden is best out wide.
When I look at that, I think Ancelotti would be a big upgrade. Likely Pochettino too, though a lot of his best work seems to be un-translatable to international football (fitness, organized pressing). Eddie Howe would be one but he's not available until he has a bad period at Newcastle. Herdman is English and would have been great 10 years ago when England needed someone to pull them together, but now they need tactical nous. Mancini and Vieira deserve mention if they'd take the job, though Mancini didn't get fired when Italy lost to Macedonia to miss the World Cup and Vieira has a good club job and is a young man. Spalletti is doing well and I think he'd a good fit with England's personnel if he ever became available.
So yeah, I'd probably keep Southgate and if he wins Euro 2024 then keep him in and if not, call it day. Start recruiting Ancelotti and when he turned me down, be ready to pounce the second Newcastle hit a rough patch and Howe gets fired for some fancier appointment. If not them, I genuinely don't know who. Beale if he does well at Rangers for 18 months would still consider that a better job, so he might actually be the current favorite as he's English and respected tactically. Postecoglou is interesting too as he would do well with the young English midfield talent. Rooney one to watch depending on how he does tactically in MLS. Wouldn't consider Lampard or Gerrard, though I could see Lampard being like 8th choice and getting the job when everyone turns it down.
The other logical choice is Sarina Wiegman. I don't know much about her but she won the Euros twice in a row, got the Dutch to the World Cup final, and most importantly, took an English side that played bad football and turned them into the best looking side at the Euros and had a really clear and devastating plan for substitutes, and England's attacking depth is their best quality (outside of a backup for Kane, but someone young might come good there). People will moan about a woman, but she transformed the England Women's team, and while the men have less versatile, almost Spanish or Croat style midfielders (which help a manager a ton), I'm damn near certain Southgate could not have transformed the women's side the way she did. If she took over when the 2023 Women's World Cup ends, she'd have just under a year to get the side playing well and after this Euro's, the England Men actually look ready to play good football rather than hanging on for dear life and hoping they score on set pieces. There'd be insane pressure on her, but as she's Dutch she's probably too hardheaded and arrogant to care.
TLDR: If I could get Ancelotti, Howe or Wiegman, I'd probably do it, but otherwise give Southgate 2024, and the latter two names might be more realistic appointments for after the 2024 Euros anyways since Howe needs time to get fired and Wiegman has a job for the next year she won't want to leave.
He’s a decent International Manager and you cannot knock the progress England have made since 2016. However there are questionable tactical decisions.
As a club manager? Never! Terrified me when he was linked to the United job, I wouldn’t trust him managing the U23’s
International Management suits him as it’s all laid out for him.
As a club manager? Never! Terrified me when he was linked to the United job, I wouldn’t trust him managing the U23’s
International Management suits him as it’s all laid out for him.
I’d rather see Howe, Potter, Rodgers or Pochettino as our next English manager.
It's bizarre an ex player turned coach ignores players mentality so much. He sent Sterling in to chase a game when he went back to London to deal with awful situation for 5 days. He's clueless.
Strangely enough that was his best tournament. Didn't get as far as some previously, but his selections and tactics were for the most part good I think.
Would quite like someone new, though not obvious who, especially as Howe and Potter might be hard to get at the moment.
Would quite like someone new, though not obvious who, especially as Howe and Potter might be hard to get at the moment.
Shi-hi. Sho-Sho. Better than nothing, but not the best. Like a bloke she might date while working her way to his sexy friend. Alright till the real guy turns up. Nice bloke. Half decent. Middling. Like one of those wonky spares that gets you to a garage. All right in a pinch. Not bad at all.
He seems to always sub players after 80th minute, why? how can they change the game in 15-20 minutes?
Its crazy. When he did make a sub, he brought on a player that has done nothing this tourney, flew home and then came back so missed training, taking off England's most influential player.
Rashford, Grealish remained on the bench whilst Mount and Sterling came on.
How you expecting players to change the game with 5/6 minutes to go.
He has to go, a quarter final against France loss is not to be celebrated, it was cowardly tactics and substitutions.
The reason I consider it not deep is that by that point you’ve only won a single knockout game.
Teams qualify from the group stage with 4 from 9 possible points. I think we can probably agree that not passing the group stage would be a disappointment.
I’d consider the semifinals deep for a country with England’s population and resources. As you say, I suspect many would agree.
I would take Slippy G over Southgate at this point. At least he has a winning mentality and a history of winning stuff as player and manager.
I Don't see how england out played France, when it was 0-0 France were the team in control and when England equalised France again took back control and looked more on top again, it also speaks about southgate who only really went for it when we were losing
And watch him destroy England by picking his Liverpool mates and leaving out United and Everton players.
I think Southgate has done a decent job and not a spectacular one, and I think its probably the right point for a change. This was a decent showing for me though. The 2018 England would have gotten absolutely rolled by France and I think we have to acknowledge that some good work has been done, if not enough. What I rate about the job Southgate has done is mostly the stuff other England managers should have done but just didn't. A clear style of play that the squad buy into. Team spirit and pride in the shirt. To some extent the trust the players have in their process too, certainly for the qualification and group stages of tournaments, though its a bit of a handbrake in the big moments. Whoever comes in needs to sustain the good bits and build on them. Maintain what he's done well, while trying to add the x-factor and just a bit of swagger.
Also, for me, the replacement has to take seriously having a Plan B where the play is changed by taking Kane off and playing a striker who'll push the defence back instead of dropping deep. The reason we aren't making the most of some of the amazing forward talent we have is that Kane tends to hog the space that a CAM would sit in, and we're not as dangerous as we should be on the break.
But, I'm worried that a knee-jerk replacement could undo the good work without addressing some of the problems. There's a lot of chat about what this squad should be achieving and "boring" football... but this is the least boring the England team have played in the last 20 years. I remember how physically painful watching England labour to overcome Trinidad was in 2006. Capello came with amazing credentials and was much worse with an arguably better squad, same for Sven.
As one example, The Guardian is mooting Brendan Rodgers as an England manager today and I just don't see how that would be any progression on Southgate? We have a team that is playing technically some of the nicest football we've seen from an England team, but its a bit mannered, a bit passionless, the team a bit prone to bottling. AKA all the weaknesses Brendan's teams are known for. You might as well keep Southgate on as have Brendan in. And I'm saying that as a Leicester fan..! I think a non-english manager really risks some of the spirit in that camp. I think taking out Southgate when the players clearly like him a lot risks some of the positivity around the international camp. None of this is a reason not to change, but they are reasons that a change is not risk free and absolutely has to be for the right person. If there isn't a good option available, I'd stick rather than twist.
Also, for me, the replacement has to take seriously having a Plan B where the play is changed by taking Kane off and playing a striker who'll push the defence back instead of dropping deep. The reason we aren't making the most of some of the amazing forward talent we have is that Kane tends to hog the space that a CAM would sit in, and we're not as dangerous as we should be on the break.
But, I'm worried that a knee-jerk replacement could undo the good work without addressing some of the problems. There's a lot of chat about what this squad should be achieving and "boring" football... but this is the least boring the England team have played in the last 20 years. I remember how physically painful watching England labour to overcome Trinidad was in 2006. Capello came with amazing credentials and was much worse with an arguably better squad, same for Sven.
As one example, The Guardian is mooting Brendan Rodgers as an England manager today and I just don't see how that would be any progression on Southgate? We have a team that is playing technically some of the nicest football we've seen from an England team, but its a bit mannered, a bit passionless, the team a bit prone to bottling. AKA all the weaknesses Brendan's teams are known for. You might as well keep Southgate on as have Brendan in. And I'm saying that as a Leicester fan..! I think a non-english manager really risks some of the spirit in that camp. I think taking out Southgate when the players clearly like him a lot risks some of the positivity around the international camp. None of this is a reason not to change, but they are reasons that a change is not risk free and absolutely has to be for the right person. If there isn't a good option available, I'd stick rather than twist.
This post makes no sense.
The best manager is possibly Tuchel, if he wishes to step away from club football for a while. I'm more curious as to how much the England experience elevated Southgate's profile in club foobtall. He couldn't get a top 10 club in the premier league before this, I think he'll still struggle to get a top 6 job but anything beyond that from Villa, Wolves, West Ham onwards is possibly fair game for him.
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This may be the best option for England. He's the perfect coach for a national side. Tuchel will be more than happy since he won't have to focus on other aspects of the game besides tactics & pre-game training.
Slippy G > Southgate. Although, it'll probably lead to more of the same results with such a talented group of players. Good but not quite good enough.
By the way, Gerrard would be nowhere near my list of candidates to be the next England manager but that's how little I think of Southgate who I think is a worse manager.
By the way, Gerrard would be nowhere near my list of candidates to be the next England manager but that's how little I think of Southgate who I think is a worse manager.
Nah... Sir Steven Gerrard doesn't really have a ring to it, does it? Plus, we need him to always be in the mix for when Jurgen calls it a day.
only plus side to Gerard is Mings never getting called up again