Guardian always has this kind of sanctimonious moral drivel about Southgate.
He’s done a great job but maybe another coach can build on the foundations he’s put in place, it doesn’t require being referred to amnesty international ffs.
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
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He’s done a great job but maybe another coach can build on the foundations he’s put in place, it doesn’t require being referred to amnesty international ffs.
What foundations?
Creating a group that are capable of going deep into tournaments consistently.
Gareth Southgate created a group?
Ah, you're one of those.
I think it's quite obvious what I mean. He's assembled, if you prefer that term, a group that has finished 4th and then 2nd and then to a QF in major tournaments. I believe that is a consistency which is unmatched by England in their history. Yes, he did that with favourable games in some of the tournaments but he's instilled in them a belief that they can get to that level and don't slip up against poor sides anymore. England just need that next level manager to take them to the next step.
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Yes, I am one of those who believe that the next manager of NT (or actually any team) does not give a fart who the previous manager selected or did not select. They do not give a fart about how the previous manager used to play or about any "foundations". There are no "foundations", it is a myth that means nothing. A new manager will start with his own ideas and his own selections.
Oh, so football is purely tactical and has nothing to do with mentality etc. + you think a new manager will completely revamp the squad?
I think he lacks bravery and the daring to take this group of players further. I don't feel like we try to control games enough, but when we do, it's pedestrian possession retention in our own half. Reminds me a little of United under Solskjaer. I think that group of players had potential to go and win the WC, but lack of belief in their own abilities prevented them from doing so.
So, your "foundations" is "mentality, etc"??? What is the "etc"? Can you please tell us that exactly the "foundations" is? Not a smart answer like "Ah, you're one of those.". Give us an explanation what are the "foundations" that the next manager will use. Let's imagine that the next manager is LVG or whoever. What "foundations" is he going to use that wouldn't be there otherwise?
Have you got any emergency Horlick’s in the cupboard?
It's hard to argue with his record, but I think he might give it up himself. If it was gonna happen for him it was this tournament or the last.
Has he taken us as far as he can, maybe? He was unlucky against France but i think he failed to take the chance aswell but taking a Risk he played safe with his substitutions, it was there for the taking possibly just needed that extra little spark to force the issue.
He's built a good group, there is a solid base to work with for someone and plenty of talent particuley going forward.
Unpopular opinion time. Perfect man for the job? Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Here me out, International football there's no time to coach a particular Philosophy, it's all about having a fairly simple tactical plan and setting up to get the best out your talented individuals. That's Ole ball and we know he was a good man manager and good at getting the best out of people good at inspiring confidence, and most importantly willing to take attacking risks to win games.
I think he could work wonders with this group.
Has he taken us as far as he can, maybe? He was unlucky against France but i think he failed to take the chance aswell but taking a Risk he played safe with his substitutions, it was there for the taking possibly just needed that extra little spark to force the issue.
He's built a good group, there is a solid base to work with for someone and plenty of talent particuley going forward.
Unpopular opinion time. Perfect man for the job? Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Here me out, International football there's no time to coach a particular Philosophy, it's all about having a fairly simple tactical plan and setting up to get the best out your talented individuals. That's Ole ball and we know he was a good man manager and good at getting the best out of people good at inspiring confidence, and most importantly willing to take attacking risks to win games.
I think he could work wonders with this group.
Morocco have clearly over achieved it happens in a lot of world cups. From South Korea in 2022, Sweden and Bulgaria in 94 etc... But I wouldnt put England equal or above Croatia, Holland or Argentina
You're the one that started the smart responses, pal. Of course mentality and structure of a group outside of what happens on the pitch is important to succeeding on the pitch. For years before Southgate England had a terrible mentality issue where they struggled to gel as a squad and with the media and nation. Far far less than they have with this current group, which Southgate has been a big part of instilling.
He's got a group of players that have experience of going into tournaments now at the QF or beyond and are still capable of playing 1 to 2 tournaments. If you take starters from this tournament then Kane, Pickford, Shaw, Stones, Bellingham, Rice, Saka, Foden are all probably able to give another 2 tournaments and the remaining others in Henderson, Maguire and Walker are at least capable of one more. They all now have experience of at least one tournament where they've performed relatively well and got to at least a QF with most of them playing or reaching a final in another, and then others having the semi, final and quarters on their record. Having that experience in the camp is good to have going forward.
He has shown that England are tactically flexible and look comfortable as a back 5 or a back 4.
There are quite a few things which have set the base/foundations/whatever word you would like to choose. I don't rate Southgate and think he should have done more, but to completely ignore the good things he's done and has set up for the next manager is daft and wrong.
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You're right. That is a unpopular opinion
of course there are foundations
if they get to the next semi/final they’ll have that experience to draw on which is really useful
Really. Above Croatia and Argentina.
Clearly there are pluses and minuses for the English team. But I would be happy for Southgate to stay on until the Euros which start in a matter of months.
And then let's see how that works out.
Constant shit, defensive subs. It's a crime to go out meekly with this group of attackers. Have to give him great credit for the work he did with Maguire and Stones though. Pickford too really. You have to say they were near faultless in this tournament and throughout his time.
I just can't forgive bringing on fecking Sterling and Mount with Rashford and Grealish sitting there looking on. You cannot pick winger or AM subs based on their defensive contribution when you're a goal down, it's pathetic.
I just can't forgive bringing on fecking Sterling and Mount with Rashford and Grealish sitting there looking on. You cannot pick winger or AM subs based on their defensive contribution when you're a goal down, it's pathetic.
I mean, in large people that were turned off from the national team for the nationalistic BNP section of the support have returned under Southgate. There’s a lot more women actively following England particularly in tournaments too.
He’s created a side that lots of people are happy to be represented by, which wasn’t the case prior. Sure he has his flaws but you can’t discredit his role in these things.
My biggest gripe all tournament has been how isolated Kane was. Ok, so he drops deep - maybe get someone in front of him to challenge the defense? Kane is forced to drop deep because midfield can't link up with the attacking third? How about putting Foden and Grealish on to fix that?
He's not been a bad manager by any stretch, but his substitutions leave a lot to be desired.
Comparisons between Southgate and Ole are pretty evident here, the game on Saturday was ebbing away from us in the 75th minute and the French were getting back into it, yet Southgate waited until Giroud scored before making any changes. He lacks the confidence to make big calls when required. It’s time for a change.
So what they’re saying is that his record was on a downward trend..
No need to be fattist.
You’re right, imho, and I do not know why such intangible aspects, well known to any people manager at any level, are so underrated by a lot of football fans… who distinctly prefer a simplistic / mechanistic / statistics approach to the game, a la NFL or NBA?
Come on now. Holland?
He will stay for the Euros in 18 months because England is now the PC capital of the world and Gareth is a lovely individual and has done very well and just been unlucky .. fine margins and all that ( Ole said that a lot too ).
In 18 months, the same scenario will play out and England will lose against the first decent side they face in the knockout stage.
England have become so good at failure they are now describing it as a success.
Southgate has had everything a manager would need to win a major tournament, ie good draw / fixtures etc / great squad options but his in game management has cost England every time.
How anyone defends him is beyond me .. good bloke but not a good manager of games.
As the saying goes .. if you do tomorrow what you did today, you will get tomorrow what you got today.
I hope he does the right thing and steps down.
In 18 months, the same scenario will play out and England will lose against the first decent side they face in the knockout stage.
England have become so good at failure they are now describing it as a success.
Southgate has had everything a manager would need to win a major tournament, ie good draw / fixtures etc / great squad options but his in game management has cost England every time.
How anyone defends him is beyond me .. good bloke but not a good manager of games.
As the saying goes .. if you do tomorrow what you did today, you will get tomorrow what you got today.
I hope he does the right thing and steps down.
Tell you what regarding ole comparisons, I remember everyone wanting Ole to get a DOF role for the club after his managerial stint. I felt like he never warranted that at all. Southgate, however, looks like an incredibly useful guy to have around the FA in a developmental directorial role. That’s where I’d like to see him, over management role.
the worry is with the decent English managers in jobs and the foreign option surely off the table the FA try the under 21 pathway option again
enter Aidy Boothroyd
enter Aidy Boothroyd
Think it's pretty likely he'll walk away. He's not got the mentality or ability for the job now that the expectations are back up to record levels, and I think he's realised that himself.
Personality wise he is very similar to Ole as a manager, all about vibes and soundbites and good PR.
Personality wise he is very similar to Ole as a manager, all about vibes and soundbites and good PR.
He is definitely not a 'shite' England manager at all, he has been one of the most successful for decades. Is he the best possible manager that England could have? No probably not.
bit of a stretch mate a few lunatics thought it was a good idea
Yeah I didn’t mean everyone…. A few fruitcakes
Definetly postives to take from the game but I do think England were very cautious and how fecking slow they pass around even when there wasn't long left and they're chasing a lead. pass back,sideways.
Send Maguire up top & fecking hoof it.
That's his biggest weakness, his inability to change things up & make effective subs at the right time.. it has cost England in every tournament.
His bench is one of the best in the tournament, really underused Rashford who actually is playing well & was joint top scorer with Saka for England despite playing the least of all the main attacking players?
Instead he brings on Sterling, who missed most of the week (rightly so) right that's going to terrify France.. bring on someone that's focus is on home. It's not a fecking testimonial for fecksake.
Send Maguire up top & fecking hoof it.
That's his biggest weakness, his inability to change things up & make effective subs at the right time.. it has cost England in every tournament.
His bench is one of the best in the tournament, really underused Rashford who actually is playing well & was joint top scorer with Saka for England despite playing the least of all the main attacking players?
Instead he brings on Sterling, who missed most of the week (rightly so) right that's going to terrify France.. bring on someone that's focus is on home. It's not a fecking testimonial for fecksake.
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Honestly, best call on talksport about Southgate. Absolutely bang on the money.
He makes some very, very good arguments yes. But the caller falls in the same trap that many others do which is to overestimate how good England players are. Yes, they are all good, famous and very, very expensive, but I have to hold up my hands in despair when I read people saying Rice is better than Tchouaméni or Foden is better than Griezmann. England played well enough but were unable to score from open play.
I think the FA should try out with someone other than Southgate, but one does England managers a disservice when one thinks they have the best squad in a tournament. England does not have a better squad than the French, Brazilians or even Portugal for that matter. Just more famous PL players
Not really. The idea that England had far better players than Croatia 2018 (Modric, Brozovic, Perisic, Mandzukic..) and far superior to Italy 2021 (Chiellini, Bonucci, Verratti, Chiesa, ) is just a myth that PL centered media keeps feeding… (And of course France is another tier above experience wise). England could have done better but pretending it should have been a walk in the park if he’d played it braver sounds ridiculous… I believe Mbappé and Giroud would have walked with a brace each in that case (as would have Chiesa last year), but that’s my opinion.
Hmmm... I'd still have doubts if Southgate could rebuild club like Molde into title winning team.
No one has answered this question.
Who would you like to replace Southgate?
Who would you like to replace Southgate?