I think that of all of the many good things he's done with the England team, the one that will be viewed most kindly by history is probably the most nebulous and hard to define, but very obviously present: the giving the people a national team that they're happy to get behind and support. That's been a problem for quite a few managers, but he's constructed a very likeable team who seem less removed from English supporters than many English teams in recent memory.
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
- Thread starter VP89
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I miss the days when England qualified for the latter stages of big tournaments playing free-flowing football. Actually missed is probably the right word.
Why is it biased to think that England plays that well despite him not because of him. Germany were exactly the same with Joachim Low
It doesn't matter one bit as long as we keep losing the moment we face a proper team.
It’s insane right . I mean how many semifinals have Brazil made for example or Italy in recent years. All you can do in international football is get to the big games & then try to play well which England did today. These games are so close that you can’t go overboard on assessments
This wasn't the Italy game, but when you need some pressure to build up late on in a crunch game you put on and keep on the players who keep and progress the ball (and maybe Rashford because he always has a goal in him).
Taking Saka off was particularly strange and Sterling... Again just why?
Overall at least he put out the right starting XI in the right shape, but the subs do leave a lot to be desired. Not as frankly baffling as the Italy game where we gave the midfield away and held on for dear life for 100 mins with the same players with £250m worth of talent sat on the bench watching. This really doesn't stick in the craw so much but yeah of course we should upgrade and who gives a shite if they are foreign but they are a top manager.
Taking Saka off was particularly strange and Sterling... Again just why?
Overall at least he put out the right starting XI in the right shape, but the subs do leave a lot to be desired. Not as frankly baffling as the Italy game where we gave the midfield away and held on for dear life for 100 mins with the same players with £250m worth of talent sat on the bench watching. This really doesn't stick in the craw so much but yeah of course we should upgrade and who gives a shite if they are foreign but they are a top manager.
Because some people are still living like it's 2010 and we're starting Heskey and Lennon up front. This England squad has talent in droves, especially in attack we're absolutely stacked. It's not being used. We need to do better because in about 5 years time, a lot of these players will be past their primes and their replacements will be inferior. Already this is probably Kane's last world cup, his replacement will be someone like Toney or Calvert Lewin, good players but not of the same calibre.
The post literally says a good England manager beats the French. When has an England manager ever beaten a top tier team on foreign soil?
England arguably has the best squad in the tournament. Holding it back is the manager.
This team could be managed by Harry Kane as a playing captain and would get the same or better results. Southgate is a clown and massively underachieved with such a wonderful generation.
He's weak.
Happy England is keeping him.
Happy England is keeping him.
Actually I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. I don't hold a grudge over these things, just get annoyed when time is wasted on people like SouthgateMe?
I'm more on Southgate's side tonight but I do hate this comparing across generations shite. Everyone should cut it out.
Fair
Problem is that this proper team thing is a made up concept . International football has a lot of good teams and the gap between them isn’t big at all. England played really well against Germany in the euros& they played really well today. Even the Italy loss was in a penalty shootout . I suggest people look at a broader view rather than just being stuck on England
Italy got outplayed in euros semis but won on pens and then won final on pens . They didn’t qualify for this tournament . Look at Spain , Germany , Portugal, Belgium and Brazil . International football is hardly straight forward
Good performance but he does deserve criticism. Game was there to be won. Instead waited until the 80th minute to take off our best player in Sake, for Sterling.
Also Henderson for Mount which serves no purpose.
Grealish and Rashford should've been on about the 70th minute mark to win the game. Instead they got about 5 minutes between them.
England played well but it's not because of Southgate, it's in spite of him. A better coach makes better subs and wins that game. Playing well when you have a great squad is no achievement, teams like France in the late 90s, Spain, Germany etc used those squads to win. This squad isn't Germany currently or England in 2010. It's far better.
It's sad because players like Shaw, Walker, Grealish, Kane etc will all be past 30 and past their best years in 4 years time. We're wasting the best squad we'll probably have for a long time on a coach who doesn't take the initiative to try and win games.
Ko competitions by design are very luck dependent (or chance or whatever you want to call it) but that absolutely doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get the best manager available.
Both cappelo and sven were wrong appointments, one was surprisingly unfit for the job and the other a well past it defensive dinosaur and even than sven had some pretty respectable results, were england actually good at pens history might be quite different.
Look at the some other winners , both Spain and Italy had world class managers for their wins and while you don't necessarily have to be world class being so massively helps.
Someone like tuchel who is fantastic at ko competitions would be a wonderful appointment and im not sure as you are that he would turn down that offer.
Well, if and it's a big if, the FA have figured out how to coach young players correctly, then you would hope that the production line would not slow down.
If he successfully replaces Kane and Walker, and Harry. And get a better GK than Pickford, he might reach another SF.
But England rarely if ever gets an upset against a team that's better on paper. Morocco sent fecking Spain & Portugal to home. Croatia knocked out Brazil.
Why is England always the nice and cute team that predictably loses against a top side? Why does England never manage to get a freak result?
We have one of the most stacked teams in world football... Now is the time to drop Southgate and get a real manager in.
England has a real rich seam of quality in this squad.
England has a real rich seam of quality in this squad.
And likewise if he's successfully replaced with any half decent coach, we may reach another SF.
His subs tonight were rubbish. Leaving Rashford and Grealish on the bench as long as he did and bringing Mount and Sterling on first was idiotic.
Having the best squad means very little in international football with a knockout tournament . Croatia who were 4 years older just eliminated Brazil who had an insane squad this time. Italy win the euros but then can’t qualify here. This is like the champions league but tougher with one legged games
Fair point
Football heritage
England weren’t bad but they certainly lack that extra something a good coach provides their team. Southgate has done well for a poor manager but it’s obvious he has taken the nation as far as his ability will let him. He isn’t as tactically astute as the best and will constantly be found out.
He's not shite, but he's not a positive tactician either. The young players emerging would likely benefit from a forward-thinking manager with a serious pedigree. Southgate has stabilised England a bit and made the team a bit more credible, but it's hard not to think that a team with these players available should be playing at a higher level.
I understand, Southgate in the crucial moments when he could make a difference doesn't. His cautious nature holds England back. I don't feel that's even questionable. I think he was planning on ET at or around 65 mins. France had other ideas.
It's all about such small margins. I don't mind giving him the Euros at least and seeing what happens. The main attacking players like Saka, Foden and Bellingham have plenty of time left in them yet and maybe then there might be a more obvious replacement like a Potter or a Howe.
Well we will have to disagree on that . I think he didn’t make subs because England were playing really well and were looking more likely to score
They created basically nothing in open play.
I thought we did ok though. We had a few chances. The lloris save from a bellingham shot?
Close range save against Kane from an angle.
We had a few.
I have no gripes with our performance. It was a far cry from when we played the USA.
They did play okay. Okay wasn't good enough to win the game though.
Capello won 2x Serie A (later revoked for Calciopoli, which he benefited from but wasn’t connected to) and La Liga in the 3 years prior to taking the job. Sven was still very hot property when he took the job, personally I’d say Sven did a decent job too to be honest, but he never dealt with the statesman side of the role and it was his downfall. Especially with the life he led, but that is what it is.
I don’t see a single chance that a Tuchel takes the job, in addition to his football being dull and defensive (even compared to Southgate). He’d also falter massively under the press pressure, he succumbed at Chelsea which is childs play in comparison.
Also I would never agree with referring to Roberto Mancini as world class.
Terrific is a very strong word. We were the better team overall and deserved to win (what does this even mean tbh). However, France were truly awful and we were just marginally better. The standards at international level are so, so poor now.
Morocco played better football in that first half again Portugal than I’ve seen in any of the other QFs.
What defines a world-class manager?
Does it matter when you are facing a defence that are foul happy in and around their box like the French were? 2 and potentially 3 pens AND a blatant last minute FK. Not having Grealish and Saka on at the same time was wild to me.
But, Southgate is a good England manager by the standards set by his predecessors. The best and most successful one since Alf Ramsay.