I actually think he’s done a good job given where things were at in the years before he took over, he just hasn’t had that extra edge to take them to the very end. Plus he’s fallen into that inevitable trap that most international managers who’ve been in charge too long do which is pick his trusted players that have served him well instead of giving others opportunities.
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
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He'll win the euros in 2 years and people here will still be complaining that "we should have won better he should have done X/Y"
Based on what?...
I can tell you right now, he won't.He'll win the euros in 2 years and people here will still be complaining that "we should have won better he should have done X/Y"
I disagreed with plenty of his decisions but England outplayed France and would have won it if the ref had let them so he clearly isn't that bad. I'd have had Rashford on about quarter of an hour earlier like, and had Grealish on over Mount.
Yes he is
Yep. That is the reality.
I don't think he will, he's not a winner and I don't see England replacing Harry Kane. He'll be playing the same players regardless of form.He'll win the euros in 2 years and people here will still be complaining that "we should have won better he should have done X/Y"
He'll win the euros in 2 years and people here will still be complaining that "we should have won better he should have done X/Y"
No
England played well but they have a very good team. Thought he left his subs ten minutes too late and when he made them they were the wrong ones - Sterling in particular was a terrible decision and the sort of conservative favouritism that has characterised Southgate’s period as manager.
I thought England where the better team today and desserved more. Hard to blame yhis on Southgate.
Shit manager, had a great squad, was good at winning against weaker teams and only once did he manage to win in a relatively even game (against a weak Germany), but aside from that always came up short against big teams.
Yeah but the nation and press won't hear it. They'll make it so toxic for him. Best for him to go now.
He’s won feck all why start nowHe'll win the euros in 2 years and people here will still be complaining that "we should have won better he should have done X/Y"
No I agree, I'm just giving some credit where it's due. I've always criticized him for setting up overly negatively, and for the first time he didn't. That doesn't mean I think he's good or that other areas of his management aren't lacking.
Hes not a great manager, with the talent at his disposal he should do better. Put van gaal in charge of this england team and you know tactically no one would out do england and he'd probably get you to a final.
Last year I thought Southgate managed that final terribly... This game though, we were the better side. He could probably have brought in different players instead of Mount /Sterling (the latter understandably looked way off it)... But I'm not sure it would have made a difference. The French just had the nous
His over reliance on players like Mount and Sterling is bordering on fetishism at the moment when there are options like Grealish and Rashford available. Not even only that but they always appear too late to influence a game.
I've said it before in this thread and it bears no repeating but I will do it anyway: Southgate is the sort of manager that would rather have a 0-0 that goes to penalties than make a decision that could change a game, in sheer fear that making that decision is what causes him to -lose-. Managers like him that don't try to win, just try their best to not lose first, never win anything at all in the long run. The best managers make decisions at half time, bring attackers on at 60 minutes, and are forever thinking how to WIN, not how to not lose.
He'll win the euros in 2 years and people here will still be complaining that "we should have won better he should have done X/Y"
He's winning nothing. But generally, give anyone 4 or 5 tournaments with top nations and see if they win. I'm sure there is quite a few managers capable of winning in that cycle.
He is absolutely shite. Mason mount sums him up. What a dick.
Thing is he did the right thing from the start, picking a winning team again.
When it went wrong, once again, was when he had to make any kind of decision about the game. Mount and Sterling were lined up before the second goal...fine, we were level and maybe even slightly on top at that point, but then they scored and instead of rethinking he went ahead with the fresh legs/same positions tactic anyway. Literally his one and only tactic.1
I like him, I like why he's done for the squad and the togetherness and all that. But he isn't a winner, he doesn't have the guts to do anything. Said it all along, never changed my mind.
But fair fecks anyway, France will win this and we gave them a good game.
When it went wrong, once again, was when he had to make any kind of decision about the game. Mount and Sterling were lined up before the second goal...fine, we were level and maybe even slightly on top at that point, but then they scored and instead of rethinking he went ahead with the fresh legs/same positions tactic anyway. Literally his one and only tactic.1
I like him, I like why he's done for the squad and the togetherness and all that. But he isn't a winner, he doesn't have the guts to do anything. Said it all along, never changed my mind.
But fair fecks anyway, France will win this and we gave them a good game.
Fecking hell, played France even, arguably better, lost to a wonder goal and a missed penalty, and people are complaining about his subs. People talking about what a mistake it was to bring on the player that actually won a penalty 
Yes he is. People will look back at this in 15 years time and think of this match, the Euros and will think what if we had a manager who's positive.
Callum Wilson is in the form of his life. You have to go for broke and change it up when you’re desperate. Sterling and Grealish aren’t changing anything.
Also he has been burnt by his loyalty to Maguire. The difference between winning and losing
Also he has been burnt by his loyalty to Maguire. The difference between winning and losing
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Actually not many complaints about his management tonight, started with the team I wanted to see. England were the better team overall and went out with dignity.
Only thing can really criticise is Sterling was totally useless when he came on and the one to keep the pressure on would have been Grealish earlier. Didn't think either Saka or Foden deserved to go off, but probably not both of them.
Would have been a tough call but maybe Kane was the one to go off and let all the ballers on to rescue the game, but let's face it pretty much noone would ever make that decision
Only thing can really criticise is Sterling was totally useless when he came on and the one to keep the pressure on would have been Grealish earlier. Didn't think either Saka or Foden deserved to go off, but probably not both of them.
Would have been a tough call but maybe Kane was the one to go off and let all the ballers on to rescue the game, but let's face it pretty much noone would ever make that decision
This tournament I don't think Southgate put a foot wrong. It's the previous ones I have a gripe with.
I think England were the better team, we were nervous to play out quickly in the first half and that cost us but its a bit marginal and over evaluating if we beat him with a stick for it.
I guess one obvious bizarre thing was Grealish on, and a weird obsession for sterling.
I think England were the better team, we were nervous to play out quickly in the first half and that cost us but its a bit marginal and over evaluating if we beat him with a stick for it.
I guess one obvious bizarre thing was Grealish on, and a weird obsession for sterling.
You’re completely ignoring what I said. Unsurprisingly.
If you make the changes you suggest on the hour, then the midfield becomes non existent, and then you complain at how stupid that is. I even specifically pointed to Sterling for Saka being a bad move, again, you ignored what I said.
The idea behind bringing Mount on was obviously to just like for like replace Henderson pulling out wide and providing width against Theo, at 1-1 that’s a fairly sensible move (albeit personally I’d take a punt on Alexander Arnold in that role at that point) but again, it makes sense. Rashford for Foden earlier sure, I wouldn’t be against that move.
We were the better team on the day and lost to a very good side. It happens. As a United fan I’ve seen us on the other end of those plenty of times (including our last competitive game, as it happens). It’s far from the diabolical showing you’re making out.
Yeah pretty much completely agree, good take!
He outplayed france and should have won. However he shit himself in the last 15 mins. A top manager put Foden central stirling right and Rashford left even frin the start, too conservative.
It is, I agree, simplistic. But had had had... is that enough.
History is full of better teams than this england side that won nothing. They just went out to a more talented team on the smallest of margins which were down to individual players
He’s done ok although I still feel his success has been helped significantly by favourable draws but he’s far too reactive than proactive. It doesn’t seem like he reads a game well enough and almost like he pre prepares subs. If we don’t win something with this era of players it’d be criminal
Confirmed, not above Sven. He doesn't even get of Sven's group in 2002 in fact.... maybe not even 2004. But if you, as with most, judge Sven's reign solely on the 2006 tournament, then well, yeah he's kind of better.
That also, isn't the disrespect it seems. Sven did fine, but as above, is far too remembered for a tournament in 2006, he still got a QF in, and to pens with butchered strikers and ending up with 10 men. It's fine, managers don't want the England job though.
That also, isn't the disrespect it seems. Sven did fine, but as above, is far too remembered for a tournament in 2006, he still got a QF in, and to pens with butchered strikers and ending up with 10 men. It's fine, managers don't want the England job though.
On the money.
Time to end the Southgate era and try something fresh.
He could've done better at the Euros but he was more positive today than the opposite manager.
I don't rate him, but I wouldn't put too much shit on his doorstep for this loss. We should have won, France were nothing special.
Would love to see him step aside though, but he won't.
Would love to see him step aside though, but he won't.
England played well but he still struggles to beat a top team at this level. Plenty of excellent players there and I don't think he's a top manager that could make a difference.
We played well. Not blaming him for this. In the past, yeah, I was upset with how we played. Not tonight.
Similar to Ole in a lot of ways. A better era than the last few before but ultimately just not good enough to actually win it.