Ineos and the women

Some people have suggested that Ineos will eventually get round to sorting out the women’s team, as it simply isn’t a priority at the moment.

That may well be true, but by the time they decide to give the women some attention we could be slumming it mid-table in the Championship. And at that point it will be much harder to rocket back up the league like we did the first time (not without a massive cash injection, which won’t happen) because women’s football is so much more competitive than it was even five years ago. So we will have missed our best opportunity to join Europe’s elite, all for the sake of saving a few pennies now. It’s just so short-sighted.
 


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Spending a few quid on The Cliff so they can use that is better than putting them in portacabins at Carrington
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Not excusing the awful decisions in any way, but have you seen the state of The Cliff recently? It's decrepit and probably needs pulling down and starting again.
 
The women have shared the womens building with the academy up til now. Is it true that after the mens building has been upgraded the academy will have their own space there and the womens team will have the womens building to themselves completely?
 
decorativeed said:
Not excusing the awful decisions in any way, but have you seen the state of The Cliff recently? It's decrepit and probably needs pulling down and starting again.
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Im sure it wouldnt have cost much to get it in to a useable condition as a temporary home for the Womens team.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Im sure it wouldnt have cost much to get it in to a useable condition as a temporary home for the Womens team.
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As a portion of the club's income, no probably not. As just a sum of money, yes, it would cost millions to fix and modernise. There was a reason the men's team moved out of there 25 years ago, and since then it's had almost no money spent on it.

I last visited 12 years ago - I got a tour of both buildings after a training session on the indoor artificial pitch - and it was in a very poor condition then. And there is only the one outdoor pitch, don't forget.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Im sure it wouldnt have cost much to get it in to a useable condition as a temporary home for the Womens team.
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Having access to the better pitches and other facilities makes a lot of sense, so a temporary/portable solution is absolutely fine.

However it's not fair to the women that they have to leave their new facilities because the facilities of the men's team are being renovated.

Why move two teams around when you could just move one (the men) around? Yes that would mean that the "first team" has to use that temporary solution... shock horror, the end of the world. Either it's good enough for a professional team, than it's not a problem at all for the men to stay there, or it isn't, than it's a disgrace to send the women there.
 
stefan92 said:
Having access to the better pitches and other facilities makes a lot of sense, so a temporary/portable solution is absolutely fine.

However it's not fair to the women that they have to leave their new facilities because the facilities of the men's team are being renovated.

Why move two teams around when you could just move one (the men) around? Yes that would mean that the "first team" has to use that temporary solution... shock horror, the end of the world. Either it's good enough for a professional team, than it's not a problem at all for the men to stay there, or it isn't, than it's a disgrace to send the women there.
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I think what makes it worse is the fact that broken promises over things like the training ground led to Casey Stoney leaving. They waited in their portacabins until the new building was finally ready, it's theirs for 6 months and then we hear that they've been chucked back into the portacabins again.

It's one thing hearing that you aren't top management's priority. Following that up by putting you firmly back in your place literally as well as metaphorically isn't going to impress any of them that they can now trust the club.

Let's hope they didn't dismantle the portacabins - it took them months to get the toilets and the showers into the same block originally!
 
jojojo said:
I think what makes it worse is the fact that broken promises over things like the training ground led to Casey Stoney leaving. They waited in their portacabins until the new building was finally ready, it's theirs for 6 months and then we hear that they've been chucked back into the portacabins again.

It's one thing hearing that you aren't top management's priority. Following that up by putting you firmly back in your place literally as well as metaphorically isn't going to impress any of them that they can now trust the club.

Let's hope they didn't dismantle the portacabins - it took them months to get the toilets and the showers into the same block originally!
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They did dismantle it. Shows the lack of forward planning I guess.
 
Wixqaz said:
Family members of players are making their feelings known about it.

We had to wait more than 5 years for actual facilities for the womens team. We only got out of the tent in October. Now they've been kicked out after less than a year. None of the new facilities being built are for the women. They're only for the men.

Thats directly after the new owner has already said they're not a priority. Not bothered to come to their cup final. Our Keeper, Captain, Top goalscorer and POTM for the Cup final are all leaving.

Ineos don't invest in womens sport in any of their ventures. Nice's team is amateur and in L2. He doesn't even know the teams name.

This team is now a tick box. Not a football team.
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Very well laid out. I don't see how people think this isn't an issue when it's also put in a broader context above.

This very decision itself, yeah we all get it that men's team is a priority, that's why they have much better facilities in the first place and that's why we are investing money into modernizing it now. It's about the short term decision to ask women's team to move out of their own premises so that men don't have to temporarily experience any inconvenience. Even if you're dismissive of women's football and the importance of it, it's simply a horrible PR look and something we should have been much more conscious about.
 
Sarni said:
Very well laid out. I don't see how people think this isn't an issue when it's also put in a broader context above.

This very decision itself, yeah we all get it that men's team is a priority, that's why they have much better facilities in the first place and that's why we are investing money into modernizing it now. It's about the short term decision to ask women's team to move out of their own premises so that men don't have to temporarily experience any inconvenience. Even if you're dismissive of women's football and the importance of it, it's simply a horrible PR look and something we should have been much more conscious about.
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I also think. If for example some of the Carrington rebuild was going to be used by the women, then that would also make it easier to stomach. But that’s not the case.

They go through another year in the tent, and then at the end of it they just back to where they were, nothing extra.
 
Wixqaz said:
They did dismantle it. Shows the lack of forward planning I guess.
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How can you forward plan when you don't have your feet in the door. When did they take the temporary buildings away?

The building opened in the summer prior to the Women's season starting, with Sir Jim/Ineos' take over of the footballing side being confirmed in February. Along with investment of £200m for additional shares in United.
 
Wixqaz said:
I also think. If for example some of the Carrington rebuild was going to be used by the women, then that would also make it easier to stomach. But that’s not the case.

They go through another year in the tent, and then at the end of it they just back to where they were, nothing extra.
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As I said, if this was simply club deciding to invest money into rebuilding men's facilities and not women's facilities, with it being an actual choice, I'd be OK with that kind of prioritization. It's kicking one team out of their premises (that they've waited so long to even have) in order to avoid the other one being inconvenienced for a period of time that doesn't sit right with me. I'm actually quite puzzled by the number of people that seem genuinely fine with this and not seeing any issue.
 
cj_sparky said:
How can you forward plan when you don't have your feet in the door. When did they take the temporary buildings away?

The building opened in the summer prior to the Women's season starting, with Sir Jim/Ineos' take over of the footballing side being confirmed in February. Along with investment of £200m for additional shares in United.
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They didn’t open till October.
 
Sarni said:
As I said, if this was simply club deciding to invest money into rebuilding men's facilities and not women's facilities, with it being an actual choice, I'd be OK with that kind of prioritization. It's kicking one team out of their premises (that they've waited so long to even have) in order to avoid the other one being inconvenienced for a period of time that doesn't sit right with me. I'm actually quite puzzled by the number of people that seem genuinely fine with this and not seeing any issue.
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I think people want to see the best in Ineos.

But specific to the women’s team, when Avi Glazer can turn up to a final and you can’t. That’s when it just becomes clear.

There has not been a single thing from Ineos for the women. They haven’t even bothered with empty platitudes.
 
Wixqaz said:
They didn’t open till October.
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Fair enough, from an article on the United website dated October it states "Construction on the new facility started in February and the building became fully operational before the start of the 2023/24 Women’s Super League season."
 
cj_sparky said:
Fair enough, from an article on the United website dated October it states "Construction on the new facility started in February and the building became fully operational before the start of the 2023/24 Women’s Super League season."
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I think it came on in stages according to the team's own priorities list in terms of it going live. The gym and rehab rooms seemed to go into action first - I think they got them during September. They'd been in temporary accommodation at Carrington since 2021 by then.

The didn't actually have have a permanent "home" (or even the kind of place where you have your own locker etc!) before that. They'd shared facilities (as junior partners) with Leigh RL and with other teams/clubs who were hiring LSV - but that "work around other groups arrangement" fell apart during COVID of course.

Casey Stoney was promised that United were working on a home for them (initially planned to be the Cliff then later switched to Carrington) back in 2018.
 
jojojo said:
I think it came on in stages according to the team's own priorities list in terms of it going live. The gym and rehab rooms seemed to go into action first - I think they got them during September. They'd been in temporary accommodation at Carrington since 2021 by then.

The didn't actually have have a permanent "home" (or even the kind of place where you have your own locker etc!) before that. They'd shared facilities (as junior partners) with Leigh RL and with other teams/clubs who were hiring LSV - but that "work around other groups arrangement" fell apart during COVID of course.

Casey Stoney was promised that United were working on a home for them (initially planned to be the Cliff then later switched to Carrington) back in 2018.
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I always liked the idea of the Cliff being a permanent home for the Women. I think rebuilding the facilities there would've been a better way forward. The Cliff has soo much historical importance in United's story that it would've been nice to give the Women a chance to write their own chapter there.
 
cj_sparky said:
I always liked the idea of the Cliff being a permanent home for the Women. I think rebuilding the facilities there would've been a better way forward. The Cliff has soo much historical importance in United's story that it would've been nice to give the Women a chance to write their own chapter there.
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I also liked the Cliff idea.

But I think when they started it was realised very quickly that it was already to small. They did do some cold weather training there because when they were at LSV they didn’t have indoor pitches and the outdoor pitches froze. But that’s all.

The gym before they came on Carrington was the concourses at LSV in front of the concessions stand. They couldn’t all train at the same time as it wasn’t big enough.
 
jojojo said:
I think it came on in stages according to the team's own priorities list in terms of it going live. The gym and rehab rooms seemed to go into action first - I think they got them during September. They'd been in temporary accommodation at Carrington since 2021 by then.

The didn't actually have have a permanent "home" (or even the kind of place where you have your own locker etc!) before that. They'd shared facilities (as junior partners) with Leigh RL and with other teams/clubs who were hiring LSV - but that "work around other groups arrangement" fell apart during COVID of course.

Casey Stoney was promised that United were working on a home for them (initially planned to be the Cliff then later switched to Carrington) back in 2018.
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Is it true that the academy will get their own section at the mens new building and that the women will have the "womens center" to their own without the academy there when the mens building is done? (as you know the academy had their gym and other stuff in the same building as the women)
 
Wixqaz said:
I also liked the Cliff idea.

But I think when they started it was realised very quickly that it was already to small. They did do some cold weather training there because when they were at LSV they didn’t have indoor pitches and the outdoor pitches froze. But that’s all.

The gym before they came on Carrington was the concourses at LSV in front of the concessions stand. They couldn’t all train at the same time as it wasn’t big enough.
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Weirdly enough I did delete a part of my post before I posted that included the fact that I don't believe Carrington is necessarily suitable to house everything that the club may want to there. Hence why they had been looking at Golf Courses and large plot of land for a potential new training facility.
 
https://x.com/KathrynBatte/status/1806704612801409269
https://archive.ph/eDbQv

This is a good summary of where we are. This list from just the last year is a good explainer for why the womens fans/players are feeling the way they are.

If United’s new owners were to undertake a 12-month review of the women’s team, it may read something like this:
- Lost Alessia Russo on a free transfer to a WSL rival, despite spending over a year trying to negotiate with her to stay.
- Dragged their female players into the Mason Greenwood debacle, leading to England’s World Cup stars receiving abuse on social media on the eve of their quarter-final due to reports claiming they would play a significant role in whether he would return to the club.
- Spent the first three months of the season without an assistant manager.
- Lost prominent coach Luke Wright and head physiotherapist Ibrahim Kerem to the men’s set-up.
- Saw their head of women’s football, Polly Bancroft, leave to join League 2 club Grimsby Town.
- Let their players find out their end-of-season awards night had been cancelled through the media.
- Despite winning the FA Cup, United ended the season in fifth place - their worst ever finish to a WSL season.
- Sir Jim Ratcliffe said plans for the women’s team are ‘TBC’ in an interview with Bloomberg.
- Mary Earps decided to leave after failing to be convinced by the club’s long-term ambitions.
- Reports emerged that the women’s team will be moved out of their new £10million facility to accommodate the men while work is completed at Carrington during the 2024-2025 season.
- Katie Zelem, their captain, decides not to sign a new contract.
 
Unfortunately the reality of the situation is that the club has been neglected for years, trying to fix that is going to take time and will probably involve some very difficult/unpopular decisions. It’s a bit of a no win situation as there would be plenty of complaints if the men were having to use temporary facilities.

The short term pain is inevitable but they quickly need to demonstrate that there is a plan going forward for the women’s team and start making progress.
 
Roboc7 said:
Unfortunately the reality of the situation is that the club has been neglected for years, trying to fix that is going to take time and will probably involve some very difficult/unpopular decisions. It’s a bit of a no win situation as there would be plenty of complaints if the men were having to use temporary facilities.

The short term pain is inevitable but they quickly need to demonstrate that there is a plan going forward for the women’s team and start making progress.
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Does the club plan to adress the giant shitstorm that has been escalating during the last week? Or do they just plan to ignore it with silence and then carry on like nothing ever happened, like on previous occasions when the mistreatment of the womens team has been brought to light?

Dont they realize how damaging it is to have this stuff fill the press world wide? Especially in todays society.
 
Lightbringer said:
Does the club plan to adress the giant shitstorm that has been escalating during the last week? Or do they just plan to ignore it with silence and then carry on like nothing ever happened, like on previous occasions when the mistreatment of the womens team has been brought to light?

Dont they realize how damaging it is to have this stuff fill the press world wide? Especially in todays society.
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They probably will ignore it because it isn’t a giant shitstorm and it isn’t that damaging, if the men’s team start badly that will be a much bigger shitstorm and create a lot more negativity.

Everything has been neglected, huge improvements are required throughout the club and it’s not all going to change at once. Rightly or wrongly the womens team is going to be well down the pecking order.
 
Roboc7 said:
They probably will ignore it because it isn’t a giant shitstorm and it isn’t that damaging, if the men’s team start badly that will be a much bigger shitstorm and create a lot more negativity.

Everything has been neglected, huge improvements are required throughout the club and it’s not all going to change at once. Rightly or wrongly the womens team is going to be well down the pecking order.
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Right, IT has to be tidied first.
 
Great facilities but a bit of a trek from Manchester - probably better off at Carrington long term

But would be a nice change for a few weeks

Anyway, as I said before, once Ashworth etc were in the building I'm confident the Women will get the focus they need
 
Those dates for the St George's Park thing would be before a big chunk of the first team team return from internationals. The UK players are playing until the 16th July and will presumably need a holiday after that. Some of our other players are at the Olympics so they may not be back until late August.

So maybe just a shortterm thing for pre season fitness training and for final rehab stuff for the ones who had serious injuries last year etc. At any rate it's good to hear that someone can take decisions like that.
 
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