India's tour of England

Rednotdead said:
Only in England would this situation be allowed to continue.

Just because there's seemingly "no credible alternative" it's no reason to keep on a captain who can't captain or bat to save himself. If he dropped dead today would there be no one capable of taking over? Would we just give up playing Test cricket?
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Not really. India won their first away match in 3 years, and Dhoni was never asked to step down as a captain.

It seems there is a general lack of natural leaders these days. Smith was the last "good" captain. Gone are the days of Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh, Hansie Cronje, etc.
 
Aldo said:
Not really. India won their first away match in 3 years, and Dhoni was never asked to step down as a captain.

It seems there is a general lack of natural leaders these days. Smith was the last "good" captain. Gone are the days of Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh, Hansie Cronje, etc.
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But is it really doing Cook any favours keeping the pressure on him in this fashion? Is it any good either for him or the team?
 
Aldo said:
Of course not, I was just making a point that England aren't the only one who have to make do with a mediocre captain.
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Mediocre captain is one thing, but both mediocre captain and completely out of form/devoid of confidence batsman is another entirely.
 
peterstorey said:
Well let's see shall we? Stokes has to be put out of his misery and Woakes is just a county trundler.
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Word is that both Woakes and Jordan will come into the side. I think both deserve another chance, and Broad needs a rest anyway, especially if he's to come back into the side when Anderson is banned. Stokes needs some time out of the side but I definitely think he's a big player for the future.

Dropping Kerrigan from the squad seems bizarre. He wasn't going to play but he's the only proper spinner, he wasn't replaced and it's hardly going to help his confidence if he's seen as the only long term option.
 
KM said:
Also think Anderson will be banned for the rest of the series. What will be your Eleven for the next match, mate?
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I would keep the same batting lineup, there's great potential there and some of the younger lads have done well. There is concern with the openers but hopefully they can regain some form. Buttler for Prior is straightforward. I would have dropped Stokes and maybe played Kerrigan but he has been dropped from the squad so looks like England will be sticking with 4 seamers. If thats the case, I would like to see Woakes instead of Stokes. He is playing well at county level and deserves his chance. Plunkett needs to be used more as an impact bowler. Long term, hopefully Riley from Kent who is a spinner and Finn can work their way back into the team to help our bowling. Perhaps even Rashid from Yorkshire.

I would also like to see a bit more agression from our batting.
 
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Rednotdead said:
Only in England would this situation be allowed to continue.

Just because there's seemingly "no credible alternative" it's no reason to keep on a captain who can't captain or bat to save himself. If he dropped dead today would there be no one capable of taking over? Would we just give up playing Test cricket?
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Cook has already said he will try to turn it around by the end of the series otherwise he offered the hint he would step down. Changing captains in the middle of a series isn't a great idea and can destablise the side even further.
 
Haddock said:
No it's not. I don't think England are that good but they certainly aren't as bad as the 90s side. You can't tell me Nasser and Atherton's mediocre side with such luminaries like Nick Knight, Mark Butcher and Ramprakash along with the captains themselves are worse than this, Cook (surely the worst player to ever get 8000 test runs) and co are better by some distance. I actually believe if England bring in some replacements, Jordan for Stokes, Compton for an Opener and Panesar they could yet win this. India's bowling if pretty mediocre and the batting good as it is (Rahane , Kohli and Pujara are going to be here for a long long time) will fail at some point.

Ultimately I feel it's the management's fault. Moores I think kept going on about 'attacking the short ball if you can't defend it' in an interview with some Aussie paper during the Ashes. That worked out well didn't it? If you don't have the technique to defend it in the first place, they how can you attack it?
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Your hatred of Cook now is getting quite tiresome and is proved by that silly remark above.

Pansear is not even playing for his county team and is having all sorts of disciplinary problems, he is a long way from the England team.
 
TheGame said:
Onions should have been on the plane Australia but he is injured at the moment.
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I thought he might have been, actually, it rang a bell but I checked his twitter when I posted and he'd said something on the 13th about getting back to playing.
 
TheGame said:
Cook has already said he will try to turn it around by the end of the series otherwise he offered the hint he would step down. Changing captains in the middle of a series isn't a great idea and can destablise the side even further.
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Wasn't he going to "turn it round" after Australia? It's not only his captaincy that's the problem, if it were I could see the logic of keeping him on - he's been completely failing with the bat for too long now too.

I have to wonder about Moores as well. Very serious error of judgment (I presume Cook was also party to the decision) in bringing back Stokes, who now has 6 ducks, with an average of 1.8 and a highest score of 5, in his last 10 Test innings.

All in all it's a complete shambles and there's no leader worth the name either on or off the field.
 
Rednotdead said:
Wasn't he going to "turn it round" after Australia? It's not only his captaincy that's the problem, if it were I could see the logic of keeping him on - he's been completely failing with the bat for too long now too.

I have to wonder about Moores as well. Very serious error of judgment (I presume Cook was also party to the decision) in bringing back Stokes, who now has 6 ducks, with an average of 1.8 and a highest score of 5, in his last 10 Test innings.

All in all it's a complete shambles and there's no leader worth the name either on or off the field.
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Well yes, and to be fair to him he went to Essex and scored a century (or two I forget) made the changes he thought was needed i.e. sacking Pietersen, Gooch, Mushi and is clearly captaining differently to how he was in Australia.

The problem is that his form for Essex didn't translate to test cricket, in fact he's actually batting worse, his doing more retarded things because he's trying to show he's proactive and his senior players aren't playing very well.
 
Aldo said:
Not really. India won their first away match in 3 years, and Dhoni was never asked to step down as a captain.

It seems there is a general lack of natural leaders these days. Smith was the last "good" captain. Gone are the days of Mark Taylor, Steve Waugh, Hansie Cronje, etc.
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Michael Clarke and Brendan McCallum are both good captains.

Both excel in particular in their rotation of the bowlers, finding the bowlers giving particular batsmen trouble and then sticking with them for a while, or if you're not looking threatening you get taken off quickly. It's a stark contrast to England who's bowling rotation seems to be bowl Anderson as much as humanly possible, regardless of if he's looking threatening, bowl Broad a bit, then shift round the other bowlers a bit, with lesser considered bowlers like Stokes and Ali sometimes getting taken off even when they've taken a wicket the last over or when they're looking threatening.
 
Haddock said:
Most runs
PlayerSpanMatInnsNORunsHSAve100500
SR Tendulkar (India)1989-20132003293315921248*53.78516814
RT Ponting (Aus)1995-2012168287291337825751.85416217
JH Kallis (ICC/SA)1995-2013166280401328922455.37455816
R Dravid (ICC/India)1996-2012164286321328827052.3136638
BC Lara (ICC/WI)1990-2006131232611953400*52.88344817
KC Sangakkara (SL)2000-2014125215171159331958.5536499
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)1997-2014146246151150637449.80334814
S Chanderpaul (WI)1994-20141562664611414203*51.88296314
AR Border (Aus)1978-1994156265441117420550.56276311
SR Waugh (Aus)1985-2004168260461092720051.06325022
SM Gavaskar (India)1971-19871252141610122236*51.12344512
GC Smith (ICC/SA)2002-201411720513926527748.25273811
GA Gooch (Eng)1975-19951182156890033342.58204613
Javed Miandad (Pak)1976-1993124189218832280*52.5723436
Inzamam-ul-Haq (ICC/Pak)1992-200712020022883032949.60254615
VVS Laxman (India)1996-201213422534878128145.97175614
ML Hayden (Aus)1994-200910318414862538050.73302914
V Sehwag (ICC/India)2001-20131041806858631949.34233216
IVA Richards (WI)1974-199112118212854029150.23244510
AJ Stewart (Eng)1990-200313323521846319039.54154514
MJ Clarke (Aus)2004-2014105180208240329*51.5027279
DI Gower (Eng)1978-199211720418823121544.2518397
KP Pietersen (Eng)2005-20141041818818122747.28233510
AN Cook (Eng)2006-201410619010816229445.3425357
G Boycott (Eng)1964-1982108193238114246*47.72224210
GS Sobers (WI)1954-197493160218032365*57.78263012


Go on then. How many of those players are inferior to Alastair Cook? i'll give you Alec Stewart. Anyone else?
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So Cook isn't the worst then?:rolleyes: Having not even seen all those players play it would be difficult to make that assumption just because he is going through some patchy form. 8000 runs in test cricket is a great achievement and players who get that always have some talent.
 
Chris Jordan warming up at Horsham skittling out the first 3 Warks wickets (10 for 3). 5-3-3-3.
 
Haddock said:
Ok second worst. :angel:.
No doubt it takes some talent to get to 8000 runs and I'm not saying he's shite. Far from it but he's massively overrated as a batsman. Also , I forgot Mark Waugh also made 8000 runs, he's below Sobers.

Stepping away from Cook for a second - that list - Ponting, Tendulkar, Lara and Dravid wow they had a tough time of it. The opposition was Warne,Murali,Mcgrath,Waqar,Wasim,Donald,Pollock,Vaas,Ambrose,Bishop,Walsh,Mcdermott,Cork,Cairns,Kumble,Saqlain,Marshall,Merv. Even the second string you had Zimbabwe's Streak, Srinath, Gough,Vaas,De villers,Dillon,an emerging Shoaib and Lee,Macgill,Gillespie and Klusner....

That is some serious stuff right there.

Also, a solid ten minutes of Sir Curtly Elconn Lynwall Ambrose knocking stumps over.
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That's certainly something we agree on, they don't make bowlers like they used to.
 
Haddock said:
Ok second worst. :angel:.
No doubt it takes some talent to get to 8000 runs and I'm not saying he's shite. Far from it but he's massively overrated as a batsman. Also , I forgot Mark Waugh also made 8000 runs, he's below Sobers.

Stepping away from Cook for a second - that list - Ponting, Tendulkar, Lara and Dravid wow they had a tough time of it. The opposition was Warne,Murali,Mcgrath,Waqar,Wasim,Donald,Pollock,Vaas,Ambrose,Bishop,Walsh,Mcdermott,Cork,Cairns,Kumble,Saqlain,Marshall,Merv. Even the second string you had Zimbabwe's Streak, Srinath, Gough,Vaas,De villers,Dillon,an emerging Shoaib and Lee,Macgill,Gillespie and Klusner....

That is some serious stuff right there.

Also, a solid ten minutes of Sir Curtly Elconn Lynwall Ambrose knocking stumps over.
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Agree with the point,batsmen of nineties or even before that are the best ones when compared to the todays.
I would say todays game more tilted in the favor of batsmen than the bowler with more flat pitches.
I'm not sure how many kids out there would be happy to be a bowler these days.
 
India seem a little complacent after the win.

Ishant is the worst of the lot. Remember him giving an interview saying 'the worst is behind me' after atking 4 wickets against Bangladesh.

Rohit to start. I would be interested in seeing something like:

Rohit/Rahane, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit/Rahane, Ashwin, Dhoni, Jadeja, Bhuvaneshwar, Shami, Ishant


The fantasy cricket muppet in me would love to see the above.

Dhawan had a decent tour of NZ, though.
 
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zing said:
India seem a little complacent after the win.

Ishant is the worst of the lot. Remember him giving an interview saying 'the worst is behind me' after atking 4 wickets against Bangladesh.

Rohit to start. I would be interested in seeing something like:

Rohit, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Ashwin, Dhoni, Jadeja, Bhuvaneshwar, Shami, Ishant


The fantasy cricket muppet in me would love to see the above.

Dhawan had a decent tour of NZ, though.
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I honestly won't be surprised to see Rohit open.

Anyway Ishant has every right to give some back after being criticised quite heavily. 25 wickets in last 4 matches is quite decent too.
 
I hope India don't get sucked into the short-ball-gets-wickets trap. Frankly, Dhoni was lucky that the 'tactic' worked. It was just inept batting. Cook said teh team management instructed the team to be aggressive with the short ball. England were just the stupider team.

I think it is a dumb tactic.
 
Ishant Sharma injured, fecking bad luck :lol:

Pankaj Singh makes his debut.
 
Yea. Looked good when he was pitching it up in good lengths this series.

Shammi needs to up his game.

Hope Pankaj goes well. Looks a good first class record.
 
I am happy that Jordan + Woakes instead of Stokes + Plunkett. Stokes bowls well.
 
How fecking deep is this England batting?

I don't understand the reasoning of Plunkett's drop. How is Woakes as a bowler?
 
KM said:
How fecking deep is this England batting?

I don't understand the reasoning of Plunkett's drop. How is Woakes as a bowler?
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Plunkett is feeling tired, he had a slight hamstring problem in the last game. Cook said he hopes to be fit for the next test so think it was an enforced change. He mentioned it at the test. Woakes is actually more of a better bowler in the longer form of the game then the ODIs he has been used for. He has been playing well in the County level so he deserves his chance. Him and Jordan are good batters so yes it does deepen the batting which is what we need.

btw, how is Pankaj as a bowler, has he played ODIs?
 
KM said:
How fecking deep is this England batting?

I don't understand the reasoning of Plunkett's drop. How is Woakes as a bowler?
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I don't think its that unreasonable even if Plunkett has been dropped, he's had his moments where he's looked in the game, but they've been rare, whilst for someone who's been picked for his pace, he's rarely bowled as fast as he supposedly can, and actually a lot of his bowling last game was in the low 80's. Not to mention he was probably the worst culprit for bowling consistently short last game. I'd be amazed if he's still in the team come the Ashes next summer so I don't really see why we're going for such a short term gap, one that's not even particular good.

As for Woakes he's a bit underrated. It's highly questionable whether or not his bowling will be effective at test level, but he probably does deserve a chance, he's consistently been an excellent wicket taker in county cricket. Maybe if there were outstanding options out there you'd say he shouldn't be in the team, but frankly England's bowling is so poor at the moment there's precious little out there you'd say is obviously a better option than him.
 
Cook has been really lucky so far. Dropped chance, edges going in no mans land. That jadeja drop will be very costly.
 
TheGame said:
Plunkett is feeling tired, he had a slight hamstring problem in the last game. Cook said he hopes to be fit for the next test so think it was an enforced change. He mentioned it at the test. Woakes is actually more of a better bowler in the longer form of the game then the ODIs he has been used for. He has been playing well in the County level so he deserves his chance. Him and Jordan are good batters so yes it does deepen the batting which is what we need.

btw, how is Pankaj as a bowler, has he played ODIs?
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He's good.
Haven't played much international but have got 300 wickets at 25 on flat pitches. He's 29 but inexperienced at this level.

Its crazy how inexperienced this Indian team is.
 
Robson's not that good, I'm not really sure why they were so keen to have him, but equally the constant changing of the openers is getting somewhat farcical now so they should back him and stick by him for a while yet. I mean Carberry was not good in the Ashes, but he still scored the second most runs, and a lot more than Bell and Cook did. Seemed strange to throw him under the bus when the rest of the experienced players who should have been far better prepared for it struggled even more. Likewise Compton can consider himself unlucky to be permanently dropped when he was. Root is a far better batsmen coming in lower down the order than a opening or coming in 3rd so I think its a good decision to get rid of him, but the rest of the chopping and changing has largely been unneeded.
 
TheGame said:
But his batting is terrible, he's a good prospect but he needs more county games. Woakes has been a good county bowler for a while so he may surprise a few who underestimate him.
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But he was batting #8 -- he should be picked for his bowling, not his batting in that case.
 
Pankaj Singh looks alright. Better than expected.
 
Looks a flat pitch although nothing could be said until we play on this.
 
Good thing we're playing Rohit, IMO.

Avoid the follow on -- or go better and get to 400. And then go to Old Trafford 1-0 up, that has to be the target.
 
Ballance is such an underwhelming player but he's always getting runs.
 
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