India's tour of England

KM said:
India paying for it's negativity. The ball and pitch was doing nothing and still we were going at around 2.5 runs per over and blocking out Moeen Ali.

I know it's test cricket and all, but you've to take the initiative sometimes. Teams like Australia and Saffers are excellent at this.
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I think even if we'd be attacking, we'd be in a pretty similar position with some 20 extra runs. Basically it was Vijay who playing like a plodder and he's still around. Pujara played pretty positively, as did Dhawan. Of course, it's not as straight forward as that but yea.

I think Vijay's been excellent in SA and in England till now. Today in the 2nd session however, he was still batting on the 1st innings pitch in his mind while the pitch flattened out.

Now, though, it's irrelevant how he gets his runs as long as he's around and gets them.
 
Haddock said:
Any Indians here? Anyone else who likes Andy Zaltzman? Took the piss with that made up stat about Matt Prior the first man to save 9 runs in 14 overs against India since Herbert Sutcliffe? :lol:
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Yea, funny guy. Think his style of humour would be lost on the majority of Indians, though.
 
I think we've established one thing very clearly though -- our top 5 in this game(maybe Dhawan excepted who needs to prove himself more, did well in NZ) aren't flat track bullies, much to the disappointment of 1 or 2 Indians on here.

This is England's game, for me.

People talk about 250 being the par score, but that's for normal teams. With our bowling attack, we need 350+ easily.
 
Nice game, lot more fun than first test. We can afterall have 250-270 target on 5th day match which are always very interesting.
 
zing said:
I think we've established one thing very clearly though -- our top 5 in this game(maybe Dhawan excepted who needs to prove himself more, did well in NZ) aren't flat track bullies, much to the disappointment of 1 or 2 Indians on here.

This is England's game, for me.

People talk about 250 being the par score, but that's for normal teams. With our bowling attack, we need 350+ easily.
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When you say that are you excluding Kohli because you feel he's already proved himself in Tests or because you're including ODI contributions?

I've got to admit to having not watched India much at all when we're not playing them, hence missing his biggest contributions in away test series such as against SA and Aus but I've never been impressed with him in whites vs England. Not trying to provoke an argument or anything, just interested.

I really, really like Pujara and that Rahane knock on day 1 should be spoken of unbelievably highly.
 
NinjaFletch said:
When you say that are you excluding Kohli because you feel he's already proved himself in Tests or because you're including ODI contributions?

I've got to admit to having not watched India much at all when we're not playing them, hence missing his biggest contributions in away test series such as against SA and Aus but I've never been impressed with him in whites vs England. Not trying to provoke an argument or anything, just interested.

I really, really like Pujara and that Rahane knock on day 1 should be spoken of unbelievably highly.
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I think Kohli needs to prove himself a lot more personally, but I think he's a bit of a cnut so I may not be the most objective person.

Before the SA tour, I thought he wasn't defensively tight enough for test cricket. Leaving the ball didn't come naturally to him. In SA, he did really well and I'm going off general opinion more than anything else here. My personal opinion's that he has to show a lot more and I don't buy into this "He's world class" stuff. Pujara for me is a MUCH better player but people here talk about both in the same breath.


Mostly, people criticize Dhawan, Vijay and Rahane -- I've defended Vijay and Rahane, and they've really really proven themselves. Some people do this simplistic thing of judging players by them getting centuries and I don't buy into that -- I think Vijay has made 30/40 type scores which were far more impressive than some of his 100s -- and Rahane would rate his 96 vs SA as his best knock. But now, they've got even the centuries to show.
 
zing said:
I think we've established one thing very clearly though -- our top 5 in this game(maybe Dhawan excepted who needs to prove himself more, did well in NZ) aren't flat track bullies, much to the disappointment of 1 or 2 Indians on here.

This is England's game, for me.

People talk about 250 being the par score, but that's for normal teams. With our bowling attack, we need 350+ easily.
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Thinly veiled, pathetic dig at Kohli who averages 48 in Aus, 68 in SA and 71 in NZ. Nice.
 
akash02 said:
Thinly veiled, pathetic dig at Kohli who averages 48 in Aus, 68 in SA and 71 in NZ. Nice.
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...:lol: what a bizarre post. There was a veiled dig at you earlier in this thread when I posted about Rahane -- this wasn't a veiled dig at anyone. You can quote and reply on that maybe.
 
zing said:
...:lol: what a bizarre post. There was a veiled dig at you earlier in this thread when I posted about Rahane -- this wasn't a veiled dig at anyone. You can quote and reply on that maybe.
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And I see Matthews played another blinder against Steyn and co. Just a patch of form I'm sure...:wenger:
 
Haddock said:
Yes, he's very British. Commentary on Star has been quite good apart from Wum lord Nasser Hussain and Harsha 'the BCCI bugle'. Wasim does his usual routine of swallowing words but his insights into swing bowling is second to none.
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My friend pointed out that Wasim Akram just reads the stats on screen and says little else..

Can't unhear that after that.
 
To be fair, Kohli is going thru a slump right now (carrying on from the IPL and maybe even a bit earlier than that).
 
Gambhir's shown plenty of times that he's a flat track specialist.

I would rather see Rahane take a crack at opening -- he is naturally an opener, plays #3 for Mumbai I think. Top order player.

I'm sure we've got 1 or 2 middle order batsmen who would do well. Rohit needs to come in for Binny and we can find 1 more from somewhere.

Maybe slot Gambhir into the middle order somewhere -- he's a great player of spin. Not much use it would be against England though.
 
Ganguly, Manjrekar and Dravid are so, so better than Sivaramkrisan, Shastri and Gavaskar.
 
KM said:
Ganguly, Manjrekar and Dravid are so, so better than Sivaramkrisan, Shastri and Gavaskar.
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I switch channels the moment Arun Lal comes on. I hope they've got some way of tracking this as I'm sure everyone else does.
 
zing said:
I switch channels the moment Arun Lal comes on. I hope they've got some way of tracking this as I'm sure everyone else does.
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He has stopped commenting in English on Star I think.

Oh and disagree about Rahane going to open. I won't change his place at all and I don't trust Rohit in these conditions. I'm racking my brains for an opener but can't seem to find a good alternative.
 
Evenly balanced but I can't see England chasing more than 250 on a fourth and fifth day pitch.

The top order barring Ballance and Root is out of form.
 
KM said:
He has stopped commenting in English on Star I think.

Oh and disagree about Rahane going to open. I won't change his place at all and I don't trust Rohit in these conditions. I'm racking my brains for an opener but can't seem to find a good alternative.
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Man, this guy is the best young player around after Pujara for me. Or I wouldn't think so much about calling him as good as Pujara. There is a crispness to his stroke play and judgment to his game that is just impeccable. Michael Vaughan tweeted the same thing on day 1.

I didn't have any expectations from him because he was not so good in his debut here in India, but the 40 he made in the first innings in SA was damn good.

One side of the coin is that you think he's so good at #5 or #6, but the other side is that he is always running out of partners. He would complement Vijay well who has changed his test game to be really defensive.

Rahane, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Gambhir, Rohit -- wouldn't be a bad top 6 to try. Have we got any other middle order batsmen knocking about? Don't really rate Rayudu. Openers.. you'd probably be going for Jiwanjot Singh from Punjab.
 
TheGame said:
Shastri was on Sky verdict yesterday trying to explain the Indian reasons for not using DRS, after harping on for 15 minutes, I am still unsure what he is on about and what the reasons are.
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There's no reason, it's just BCCI being stubborn.
 
Haddock said:
He's a good player but nothing special ,he's faced some pretty crap bowling in his career so far. Matthew Hayden (another player I love) had the good fortune of getting 30 centuries but wasn't as good as his stats show.

8 or 9? don't kid yourself. England play more tests than anyone else , he will last 5-6 more at best. I like the look of Ballance and Root. Boycott was talking Ballance in particular up in the Cricinfo podcast, Glad to see he's good. We need better players on all sides if Cricket is to thrive.

I'm a bit concerned about James Anderson. Will he ever get a rest? Bowls waaaay too much for a strike bowler , he's easily got 5 years left if they handle him with care.

Also, my respect for M.Vijay has increased like crazy. He knows as a TN Player he doesn't have the luxury of failing like a Delhi boy like Dhawan, so it's good to see him taking his chances.
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You said he was mediocre, I was responding to that. 5 or 6 years is still enough time for him to leave his mark on test cricket and have a great record. Balance has a great county record. I think Ali is a great prospect, he needs to sort some shots to poor balls as they have been his undoing. James Taylor is another great prospect, I hope he gets another shot and hopefully Trott can come back as well.

We are short of bowlers, hopefully Finn who is having a great county season can come back strong as he has the makings of a great test bowler.
 
zing said:
I think Kohli needs to prove himself a lot more personally, but I think he's a bit of a cnut so I may not be the most objective person.

Before the SA tour, I thought he wasn't defensively tight enough for test cricket. Leaving the ball didn't come naturally to him. In SA, he did really well and I'm going off general opinion more than anything else here. My personal opinion's that he has to show a lot more and I don't buy into this "He's world class" stuff. Pujara for me is a MUCH better player but people here talk about both in the same breath.


Mostly, people criticize Dhawan, Vijay and Rahane -- I've defended Vijay and Rahane, and they've really really proven themselves. Some people do this simplistic thing of judging players by them getting centuries and I don't buy into that -- I think Vijay has made 30/40 type scores which were far more impressive than some of his 100s -- and Rahane would rate his 96 vs SA as his best knock. But now, they've got even the centuries to show.
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Agree with all of that and I like dhawan's style of play.Reminds me of sehwag a bit, am not a fan of vijay's though.
 
zing said:
Man, this guy is the best young player around after Pujara for me. Or I wouldn't think so much about calling him as good as Pujara. There is a crispness to his stroke play and judgment to his game that is just impeccable. Michael Vaughan tweeted the same thing on day 1.

I didn't have any expectations from him because he was not so good in his debut here in India, but the 40 he made in the first innings in SA was damn good.

One side of the coin is that you think he's so good at #5 or #6, but the other side is that he is always running out of partners. He would complement Vijay well who has changed his test game to be really defensive.

Rahane, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Gambhir, Rohit -- wouldn't be a bad top 6 to try. Have we got any other middle order batsmen knocking about? Don't really rate Rayudu. Openers.. you'd probably be going for Jiwanjot Singh from Punjab.
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He's excellent. Loved the way how he attacked Anderson and Broad after they took the new ball in the first innings. Also seems a very composed guy.

Him and Bhuvi might be my favorites due to the way they play the game.
 
Also I disagree about Kohli. Did well in Australia, SA and NZ. Going through a rough patch which is understandable because he's been in Superhero form for the last two-three years. He's a class act.
 
zing said:
Man, this guy is the best young player around after Pujara for me. Or I wouldn't think so much about calling him as good as Pujara. There is a crispness to his stroke play and judgment to his game that is just impeccable. Michael Vaughan tweeted the same thing on day 1.

I didn't have any expectations from him because he was not so good in his debut here in India, but the 40 he made in the first innings in SA was damn good.

One side of the coin is that you think he's so good at #5 or #6, but the other side is that he is always running out of partners. He would complement Vijay well who has changed his test game to be really defensive.

Rahane, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Gambhir, Rohit -- wouldn't be a bad top 6 to try. Have we got any other middle order batsmen knocking about? Don't really rate Rayudu. Openers.. you'd probably be going for Jiwanjot Singh from Punjab.
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I'd worry about moving a young player up on the strength of their performances at 5. Joe Root is as good an example as any.

Naman Ojha's form in Aus has to see him on the cusp of the side?
 
NinjaFletch said:
I'd worry about moving a young player up on the strength of their performances at 5. Joe Root is as good an example as any.

Naman Ojha's form in Aus has to see him on the cusp of the side?
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Not sure how good Ojha is tbf, I have liked his clean stroke play at times in IPL but that's not a good yardstick to judge anything by. Not seen him play in wihtes. He can definitely be trialed in place of Dhoni, though, who basically gets a free ride in test cricket outside Asia for doing feck all.


And Rahane's a natural top order player who slots into our middle order only due to lack of slots at the top. But yea, fair point.
 
TheGame said:
Shastri was on Sky verdict yesterday trying to explain the Indian reasons for not using DRS, after harping on for 15 minutes, I am still unsure what he is on about and what the reasons are.
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One of the reasons must be "we are the world champions so we can do what we want."
 
zing said:
Not sure how good Ojha is tbf, I have liked his clean stroke play at times in IPL but that's not a good yardstick to judge anything by. Not seen him play in wihtes. He can definitely be trialed in place of Dhoni, though, who basically gets a free ride in test cricket outside Asia for doing feck all.


And Rahane's a natural top order player who slots into our middle order only due to lack of slots at the top. But yea, fair point.
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So was Joe Root to be fair, he came into the England team largely off the back of runs opening for Yorkshire, that was why there was such the huge clamour to see him open ahead of Compton who had been batting at 3 for Somerset.
 
Haddock said:
Kohli is THE outstanding player of his generation and he knows it. He's going to smash nearly every record there is.

Finn is pretty good. His action is slightly awkward too close to the stumps and all that. Will England every try Hales and Jordan in Tests?

I cannot believe we left Umesh Yadav at home! Perfect bowler to knock over the tail and cut down on the extra 30 runs that India invariably concede.
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No and they already have.
 
Finn must be the biggest frustration for you English fans.
 
Haddock said:
Kohli is THE outstanding player of his generation and he knows it. He's going to smash nearly every record there is.
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This is the kind of opinion I don't get.

Averages 42. He's not really done anything phenomenal consistently in test cricket.

He's the 3rd best batsman in the Indian team, let alone the world. A lot of people are mixing up ODIs and test cricket.
 
KM said:
He has stopped commenting in English on Star I think.

Oh and disagree about Rahane going to open. I won't change his place at all and I don't trust Rohit in these conditions. I'm racking my brains for an opener but can't seem to find a good alternative.
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Based on his showing in Australia, how about Naman Ojha?
 
zing said:
This is the kind of opinion I don't get.

Averages 42. He's not really done anything phenomenal consistently in test cricket.

He's the 3rd best batsman in the Indian team, let alone the world. A lot of people are mixing up ODIs and test cricket.
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He's the 2nd best batsman in the Indian team and that too because Pujara is fecking class. Not sure how Rahane can be rated above Kohli yet when Kohli was amazing in South Africa and rpetty good in New Zealand. You underrate Kohli because he's a dick.
 
Pujara is probably ahead of Kohli right now (though Kohli has a better record away) but you must be Ajinkya Rahane himself to think he is better than Kohli.
 
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