ICC Cricket World Cup 2011

Saffers...only bowling attack to take 40 wickets, ie, bowled out the opposition four times in a row now. Impressive. My worry is still our middle order. Du Plessis and Van Wyk are very inexperienced at this level and it showed vs England.

Is all very impressive. Will be even more impressive when they will choke and eveyone will wonder how they manage not to win with good teams.
 
All I've said Tendulkar needs to win the WC to be considered the greatest and look at the reaction I get. And you wonder why I call some of you fanboys...

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, but you ask anyone outside India and there's still very much a debate to be had about whether Tendulkar is the greatest.

Regardless of whether he wins a world cup or not, he's still not regarded higher then Bradman

-Bradman
-
-
- Warne, Tendulka, Lara
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- The Rest

I'm sorry mate, but 99.94 on utterly shit wickets rather then the runways that the likes of Tendulka and Ponting have made their careers on stands out a hell of alot more. You also can't use that football esq terminology of 1 world cup and he's the undisputed best.. especially when the likes of Bradman etc never had the option of playing in such competitions.

A world cup really means feck all. Ponting, Gilchrist and McGrath have each won 3 but they're not renowned for them in terms of their career stats. They are 3 great players because they were just that in every form of the game.
 
Is all very impressive. Will be even more impressive when they will choke and eveyone will wonder how they manage not to win with good teams.

I don't know about that. This side doesn't carry all that baggage I think. If they lose it will be because they were outplayed and not playing to their full potential. SA vs Australia, Klusener Donald was choking, but I just don't see it in this side. That doesn't mean they will win it but the 'choker' tag will be comfortably thrown around if they lose. If that is the case, then you might say England are 'chokers' or for that matter any big side that is expected to win.

And keep in mind, this side was not considered a clear favourite before the tournament. Unlike other years where we were ranked no1 in ODI's and came into the WC unbeaten. That's not been the case this time.
 
Regardless of whether he wins a world cup or not, he's still not regarded higher then Bradman

-Bradman
-
-
- Warne, Tendulka, Lara
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- The Rest

I'm sorry mate, but 99.94 on utterly shit wickets rather then the runways that the likes of Tendulka and Ponting have made their careers on stands out a hell of alot more. You also can't use that football esq terminology of 1 world cup and he's the undisputed best.. especially when the likes of Bradman etc never had the option of playing in such competitions.

A world cup really means feck all. Ponting, Gilchrist and McGrath have each won 3 but they're not renowned for them in terms of their career stats. They are 3 great players because they were just that in every form of the game.

I certainly won't begrudge anyone for regrading Bradman as the best.

But personally I don't consider him solely on the fact that the game he played a cricket so different it was almost a different sport. It's like the 'open era' in tennis that includes players of a certain time who are considered because that was the sport as it became known.

As far as I know,

Bradman played against one country and in two countires as compared to traveling all around the world playing against 8 test nations on a whole host of ALIEN environments and pitches. Bradman basically played in his backyard all the time.

Bradman played such few tests each year as compared to in addition to all that travellning the schedule that exists today where you play so much cricket it's ridiculous. 40 one dayers a year, lots of tests, tours, T20's, IPL, World Cups, Champions Trophies, Champions League's.

Bradman played in an era where the media was nothing like it is today. The demands and pressures today, especially in Pakistan and India, on players to perform is madness. It's like the English national team. A sport is very different when you have that sort of pressure on you.

All in all, as I said I won't criticize anyone for considering him the best. But for me cricket changed a great deal since then and I can't consider someone whose played a sport so different from the one we know today. Which doesn't mean you disregard all the great players before today, but I think Bradman's cricket was one step too far. It just cannot be compared to the one today, even as a sport, forget its players. In my humble opinion of course.
 
I don't know about that. This side doesn't carry all that baggage I think. If they lose it will be because they were outplayed and not playing to their full potential. SA vs Australia, Klusener Donald was choking, but I just don't see it in this side. That doesn't mean they will win it but the 'choker' tag will be comfortably thrown around if they lose. If that is the case, then you might say England are 'chokers' or for that matter any big side that is expected to win.

And keep in mind, this side was not considered a clear favourite before the tournament. Unlike other years where we were ranked no1 in ODI's and came into the WC unbeaten. That's not been the case this time
.

Now, thats not true, is it? RSA are firm favourites aside the hosts to win this thing.

I think you're forgetting the many times in other world cups when South Africa have choked. You forget Shaun Pollock 2003. West Indies 1996. T20 World Cup when they won the first 2 matches in the Super 8s only to massively choke against India. Its a trend. I won't be surprised if it happened again.

The choker tag won't be thrown out if they lose comprehensively against someone in the knockouts. But it'll play out something like this: The opposition will score 250ish. RSA will be 100-2 and end up 170 all out. THAT is choking.
 
To be honest, I find it hard to call Klusner a choker. He was absolutely amazing at finishing games and was stunning in that world cup games when the going got tough. He was your go to guy if you needed someone a rescue act and a blistering one at that. One moment of indecision doesn't make one a choker and doesn't define someone. Sometimes luck just isn't with you. That was all it was IMO.
 
Now, thats not true, is it? RSA are firm favourites aside the hosts to win this thing.

I think you're forgetting the many times in other world cups when South Africa have choked. You forget Shaun Pollock 2003. West Indies 1996. T20 World Cup when they won the first 2 matches in the Super 8s only to massively choke against India. Its a trend. I won't be surprised if it happened again.

The choker tag won't be thrown out if they lose comprehensively against someone in the knockouts. But it'll play out something like this: The opposition will score 250ish. RSA will be 100-2 and end up 170 all out. THAT is choking.

I haven't forgotten about that. And you're wrong. We're only ranked 4th in the world and we were certainly not seen as favourites to win this thing. I'm sure betting odds just before the WC started would confirm this. Unlike in 96, 03 and T20 where we considered as one of the out right favourites next to the Aussies.

Again, the scenario you've painted can happen (and has happened) to a number of teams but you won't hear them being labelled as serial 'chokers' do you?
 
I certainly won't begrudge anyone for regrading Bradman as the best.

But personally I don't consider him solely on the fact that the game he played a cricket so different it was almost a different sport. It's like the 'open era' in tennis that includes players of a certain time who are considered because that was the sport as it became known.

As far as I know,

Bradman played against one country and in two countires as compared to traveling all around the world playing against 8 test nations on a whole host of ALIEN environments and pitches. Bradman basically played in his backyard all the time.

Bradman played such few tests each year as compared to in addition to all that travellning the schedule that exists today where you play so much cricket it's ridiculous. 40 one dayers a year, lots of tests, tours, T20's, IPL, World Cups, Champions Trophies, Champions League's.

Bradman played in an era where the media was nothing like it is today. The demands and pressures today, especially in Pakistan and India, on players to perform is madness. It's like the English national team. A sport is very different when you have that sort of pressure on you.

All in all, as I said I won't criticize anyone for considering him the best. But for me cricket changed a great deal since then and I can't consider someone whose played a sport so different from the one we know today. Which doesn't mean you disregard all the great players before today, but I think Bradman's cricket was one step too far. It just cannot be compared to the one today, even as a sport, forget its players. In my humble opinion of course.

Thing is, it didn't matter who Bradman was up against, his average never dipped below 74 and his first class cricket record 'this is also towards you comment about cricket played' is outstanding with over 28,000 runs at an average of 95 in 230+ games. You forget as well that current players live in relative comfort and earn massive amounts of dollars. 90% of the old cricketers still had full time jobs and they traveled around the world on boats. They also didn't have the comfort of full time training staff and physio therapists. Before you start that pressure crap, go and read about body line and diplomatic incident that nearly occurred because of it.
 
And just to add to that, when we lost against England it was just assumed we're 'choking' again when in fact England bowled well on a shitty pitch. Yes, we should've won but then we didn't lose because we 'choked'. England just did a better job than us. Because if it were that we're chokers, then how do we then go on and beat India on their own patch, who are regarded as the favourites in close finish?

Make no mistake, SA have choked and bottled it hard in other world cups but this is a very young side with no baggage.
 
Group B

Teama..............Mat Won Lost Tied N/R Pts
India.................5 3 1 1 0 7
West Indies ........4 3 1 0 0 6
South Africa....... 4 3 1 0 0 6
Bangladesh.........5 3 2 0 0 6
England..............5 2 2 1 0 5

Ireland...............4 1 3 0 0 2
Netherlands........5 0 5 0 0 0

Knock out time :cool:

Even if Bangladesh don't manage to make it, they have done enough to make their presence known. Anyway, I have a feeling West Indies will beat England anyway.
 
Really wish Bravo was playing for the Windies. I can't see Ingerlund fecking up for a third time tbh

Glad to see a clinical display against Holland today. Bowling was so-so, with the exception of Shafiul, who was excellent, but there was a fair bit of maturity shown by the batsmen.

Only downside is Shahriar Nafees' return to the side. The way he batted today, he looked like he'd been introduced to his first cricket bat during the innings break. I really hope he hasn't done enough to be retained because he's going to be a liability in this sort of form.

He's also probably the worst player of pace bowling out of anyone currently involved in the set-up and will be a sitting duck for Dale Steyn and the SA pace attack.
 
Thing is, it didn't matter who Bradman was up against, his average never dipped below 74 and his first class cricket record 'this is also towards you comment about cricket played' is outstanding with over 28,000 runs at an average of 95 in 230+ games. You forget as well that current players live in relative comfort and earn massive amounts of dollars. 90% of the old cricketers still had full time jobs and they traveled around the world on boats. They also didn't have the comfort of full time training staff and physio therapists. Before you start that pressure crap, go and read about body line and diplomatic incident that nearly occurred because of it.

Did you just compare the pressure faced by Sachin and by Bradman?
 
I haven't forgotten about that. And you're wrong. We're only ranked 4th in the world and we were certainly not seen as favourites to win this thing. I'm sure betting odds just before the WC started would confirm this. Unlike in 96, 03 and T20 where we considered as one of the out right favourites next to the Aussies.

Again, the scenario you've painted can happen (and has happened) to a number of teams but you won't hear them being labelled as serial 'chokers' do you?

Doesn't happen consistently to all teams consistently one big tournament after another. Thats the difference.
 
All I've said Tendulkar needs to win the WC to be considered the greatest and look at the reaction I get. And you wonder why I call some of you fanboys...

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, but you ask anyone outside India and there's still very much a debate to be had about whether Tendulkar is the greatest.

Slightly narrowminded don't you think?

Anyway fanboys was more referring to zing and KM...

Nothing wrong with being a fanboy anyways especially for a player like tendulkar. I'd happily admit to being a Scholes fanboy, for instance.



I'm tempted to add Lara > Tendulkar to that collection now. :D

I think you'd have gotten a elaborate reply from either me or KM if you'd made a single decent post on this topic in your 5 years on the caf. As it stands, you're the anti-fanboy. The one who turns up and whines like a bitch about a topic without knowing what he's talking about. If you can find a single post wherein you elaborate why you think what you think, I'm more than willing to reply.

Right now, what you're essentially saying is that the single one match in the final of the WC 2003 is the deciding factor between Sachin being the greatest ever and not the greatest ever. I have no problem with people who have other opinions on who the best ever is, but the basis on which your argument stands implies that you're a bit simple.
 
Doesn't happen consistently to all teams consistently one big tournament after another. Thats the difference.

Only 3 players in this SA squad have prior WC experience. I think calling any loss by them as 'choking' is stereotyping it too much. Shit happens in sport and that's what happened in Chennai.
 
Please can we STOP this thread becoming a Tendulkar vs Bradman thread. There is already one of those that exists so please take your comments there.

Mods - please help? This wonderful thread is getting totally derailed.
 
My last post regarding this topic but let me clarify that the reason why I called Psmith an "idiot" wasn't because he said that Sachin was the greatest player ever(that much is debatable) but for wonderful posts like these


The adulation Tendulkar gets is sickening at times. People are happy as long as he gets a 100 even if India lose. Yes he's the best batsmen in the world but he is not a God. The only other sportsman that I have seen get worshipped this much was Maradona and he did perform miracles. Maybe if Sachin had led us to a WC win or a series win in Australia I'd feel it was more justified.

Also our obsession with him probably in a way explains why we haven't produced a world class bowler and considering the amount we invest in the game that's pathetic.

Tendulkar bottles it in a 4th innings again . :rolleyes:

Ok maybe not Ganguly. But Tendulkar seems to consistently bottle it when we need him the most.

Time for Ganguly, Dravid and Tendulkar to call it a day



Time for Ganguly, Dravid and Tendulkar to call it a day
 
If someone can't appreciate how good Tendulkar really is and that he will still finish his career as one of the best ever, then there is no point explaining to him. It is best to leave it at there.

Spoony knows it too. He is just a Vaughan fanboy, and is aggrieved that he does not receive the credit like Sachin does.:D
 
I'm sorry but :lol::lol: at those posts.

I think a laughing smiley will suffice in response to Psmith from now on.

And I agree with sammsky1, but it seems praising Sachin, a national hero for us Indians and one of the games greatest icons, gets a negative reaction from someone or the other.

Anyways lets keep this thread on track and about the WORLD CUP 2011.
 
Half of me wants India vs Pakistan and the other part dreads it.

I'm feeling more confident of winning now than I was a week ago. Much improved bowling performance against the Saffers.
 
Half of me wants India vs Pakistan and the other part dreads it.

I dread it tbh, we are a better team than them but they are due a world cup victory over us.
 
I dread it tbh, we are a better team than them but they are due a world cup victory over us.

True, and I think these pitches suit them. Afridi is ATM in this form a better spinner than anyone we have. If the ball seams I'm more than happy to play against Pakistan because I think our batsman can deal with that better than theirs but on flat pitches I think they'll do well.

And yeah the fact that they surely have to beat us in the WC sooner rather than later.
 
The three pace bowling attack suit us better tbh, just keep Munaf away from bowling at death.
Genuinely think that the coaching staff should make all attempts to get Irfan Pathan back on track, a fully fit and inform Pathan would make this team the best in the world.
 
Doesn't happen consistently to all teams consistently one big tournament after another. Thats the difference.

India? England (only recently won a ICC tournament)? Nobody calls them 'chokers'. Funny, that label was started by the South African media and it's stuck.

Only 3 players in this SA squad have prior WC experience. I think calling any loss by them as 'choking' is stereotyping it too much. Shit happens in sport and that's what happened in Chennai.

Zing has already partially answered you. But on that, we have won a ICC trophy but nobody will mention that. Plus again, this side is totally different to previous ones. If we lose it will be because we weren't good enough, not because we choked.
 
The three pace bowling attack suit us better tbh, just keep Munaf away from bowling at death.
Genuinely think that the coaching staff should make all attempts to get Irfan Pathan back on track, a fully fit and inform Pathan would make this team the best in the world.



It's a bit late for that, IMO. Ship's sailed. I expect Sachin to retire from ODIs after the WC. We're still a very good side without him, but this side would've been immense with Irfan at 7 and other 2 seamers + 2 spinners.
 
It's a bit late for that, IMO. Ship's sailed. I expect Sachin to retire from ODIs after the WC. We're still a very good side without him, but this side would've been immense with Irfan at 7 and other 2 seamers + 2 spinners.

He still plays reasonably good in the IPL tbf, still at loss that how the hell did he lost his speed so much in so little time. He genuinely looked like a world beater in the first year of his international cricket.

and yes, agreed he would have been immense in this side. He's a better batsmen than Yusuf imo.
 
Yea.

On the subject of the Pakistan team, does anyone else find it strange how Razzaq regularly manages to get top order batsmen out? He's bloody ordinary..
 
Razzaq's a deceptive bowler, he manages to get it to move into the right hander and has decent pace despite looking as if he is jogging rather than running into bowl. His control is valuable, but I don't think he has enough about him to trouble the better openers.

Good win for Bangladesh, all or nothing now for England in a must win game, I reckon they'll drop Anderson.
 
The three pace bowling attack suit us better tbh, just keep Munaf away from bowling at death.
Genuinely think that the coaching staff should make all attempts to get Irfan Pathan back on track, a fully fit and inform Pathan would make this team the best in the world.

This topic depresses me :(
 
I think the winner will come from one of the following:

Australia
India
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Pakistan

Right now this looks like a tournament Sri Lanka can win, what with nobody being the outright favourite anymore.
 
Back to CWC 2011 .....

I have been crisscrossing the sub continent and been to quite a few of the games.

Here is a piece that I wrote and was that published in the Bangladeshi English language press 2 days ago. Thought some of you might enjoy it.




Bangladesh cricket's identity crisis


As a British born citizen from Bangladeshi origins, I found myself in a familiar contradictory dilemma as I sat in the Zohur Ahmed Chowdhury Stadium in Chittagong on Friday. An ex British cabinet minsister, Norman Tebbit once challenged all British citizens from an immigrant heritage to demonstrate where their loyalties lay: When England (or Scotland or Great Britain etc) played one's motherland at sport, he said we should all publicly support England.

These thoughts were running through my mind when the match started. I was joyfully sat in the heart of Bangladesh's world class support who were generating such a cacophony of passionate support that surely no other cricking nation can match them.

I never knew which way my feelings would go: I tried to decide before the match but could not come to a conclusion. I have long fought against some of the more regressive and shameful behaviours that Bangladeshis in London practice and believe in. Likewise, I deeply admire English values such as freedom, religious and racial equality and aspiring to live in a non corrupt and fair society. English people are some of the very best human beings on the planet and have been a force for advancement in so many areas of civilised life. I certainly am proud to be British and its feels very logical to me to feel so.

And yet as I watched Bangladesh's fans cheer every dot ball; as I saw the genuine love they have for their country etched into every single expression that their faces made, so I was also conscious of the deep love that I have for my motherland; that my parents had ensured to be deeply embedded into me from a very young age.

Bangladesh to me means family, its means spicy exotic food, its means passionate debate and emotional relationships, it means hospitality and generosity like you cant imagine. Being Bangladeshi means that I am never alone, have an small army of 'aunties' who will smother me with affection, it means that I will always have somebody to call up when I am in trouble, it means villages and rivers, lunghi's and sari's. Above all, it means heart and soul.

And so as I watched Bangladesh's excellent spinners toil away in the mid afternoon heat to contain England's superior batsmen to a very modest score, I was delighted for them as it was their sheer dedication that conquered England's technical skill. And then at the end, after Bangladesh's epic middle order batting collapse (a typical display of Bangladeshi chaos and disorder if ever I saw one!), my heart pounded with ecstatic joy as Shafiul thrashed England's bowlers around the park through the sheer force of his personality. Shafiul had clearly commandeered the spirit of the Bengal tiger and used it to slay his enemy into a rapid and surrendered retreat.

England are a better team and so possess all the characteristics such as technique, discipline and maturity. But once in a while, these logical functional characteristics are not enough. In a fair fight of 11vs11, sometimes its the team who wants victory more who will win. Its about men who dream the impossible, who put their heart and soul on the line not afraid they it may be trampled on. Shafiul was a man possessed with emotion that evening and its because he was prepared to put himself on the line that in the end he prevailed.

What is it about this Bangladesh cricket team that gives it such a contradictory identity? When possessed, it plays such beautiful cricket, produces such magical players and wins the most magnificent of matches. And it wins matches regularly enough now for its fans to demand that it win more and be disappointed and criticise when it loses. And sometimes when it loses, it is capable of the most extraordinary of defeats, like the horrific display served up vs West Indies last week.

Watching Bangladesh score 58 runs all out in Dhaka last week and then watching her beat England in Chittagong 7 days later made me think that this team suffers the same identity contradictions that I face. What I have learnt over the years is that the best way to deal with such a dilemma is to create a unique identity for myself which involves cherry picking what I like about both cultures and living by that. I think thats what Team Bangladesh needs to do: understand what its cultural strengths are as well as acquire the behaviours teams like England and Australia adopt. But I do now believe that the future for Bangladesh's cricket is genuinely full of opportunity and potential.

The joyful feelings that I felt when Bangladesh's cricket team beat England's are now etched deep into my heart. I guess thats why in the end, I genuinely was thrilled that my mother country, Bangladesh beat my country of birth, England was because once in a while, the heart should win over the head.

My Bangladeshi identity resides deep in my heart and there she will always remain.
 
Dreadful shot from Afridi, Zimbabwe making a fight of this with 2 quick wickets. Pakistan still in the driving seat.
 
Only in a team as dysfunctional as Pakistan would that kind of a mental explosion be tolerated for years and years....

Afridi the bowler - thumbs up
Afridi the batsmen - GTFO.
 
Pakistan win and qualify for the quarter-finals. Good innings from Shafiq and Gul bowled well.

As expected Pakistan, Australia, Sri Lanka & NZ all qualify from Group A, just depends what order they finish now.
 
Looking at the cricinfo table, it looks like we won't be facing Pakistan.

I think we'll finish 2nd and Pakistan either finish 1st(if they win their game) or 4th otherwise.
 
Pakistan looking very good. Have cruised through so far almost on auto pilot. Unlike previous occasions, its seems as though coach Waqar and Captain Afridi are united. No doubt alot to do with the obvious respect Afridi has for his older mentor Waqar. As a result, the team seesm unified and enjoying one another company

They have almost gone under the radar so far. Aside from 4 kamikaze overs vs NZ, there have been no massive mistakes, no unexpected losses or even near losses, no scandals!, Even Shoaib Ackter seems to be behaving himself. And they have a team packed full of explosive talent and a genuine all rounder who really can influence the game entirely on his own in Shaeed Afridi.

If I was an opposition skipper, Afridi would worry me. His bowling is now in fine form and he is picking up wickets almost at will. I'd imagine that form will last until the end of Pakistanis tournament. No, what would worry me more is that he is yet to get going with his bat ... and still Pakistan have been winning. At some point, Afridi and his long time cohort Razzak will get going with the bat and cause some untold havoc ... converting a good score into an unbeatable one. Juts like everybody knew that Bangladesh would beat a big team at some point (sorry it had to be England) so Afridi/Razzak with the bat will happen at some point.

As good a bet as any to make it all the way.

I think they will finish 2nd or 3rd in the group. 3rd would be very interesting, as it looks likely India will finish 2nd in their group to set up a fixture we all want to see (pref in the final but if not then, any other time will do!) . I think thats would be hosted in Dhaka .... so a neutral venue with probably about the same amount of fans supporting each team.
 
Very unlikely they'll finish 3rd.

And host nations play all knock-outs at home. India will play Pakistan at Ahemedabad if it's in the QF, regardless of where they finish. The venus and the dates are pre-arranged, but the matches aren't.

And on another note..

Eden Gardens' WC 2011 debut tomorrow.
128035.jpg