Howard Webb's Performance

It must have been a horrible game to referee. But I thought he should have sent off De Jong for his tackle/assault on Alonso. I watched the replay again, and it's pretty clear to me that he has a look, knows he's not getting the ball and sticks one on Alonso at chest height. No excuse for it, WC final or not. Seems to me that for that decision at least, he refereed the occasion not the game. I think he'd have sent him off in the Premier League for that.

But otherwise he did okay in trying circumstances.
 
Mockney said:
What was the atmos like?....Shocking game to watch for football, but I'd imagine it was quite tense, possibly in a good way...or not?
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The atmosphere was great but incredibly tense as I sat smack bang in the middle of a huge Holland contingent. Everyone was glued to their seats even though the match was not that great.
 
Mockney said:
What was the atmos like?....Shocking game to watch for football, but I'd imagine it was quite tense, possibly in a good way...or not?
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It was very tense and that's why I said it was a good game to watch. I was in the middle of both Dutch and Spanish fans. It seems like the type of game that would be horrid to watch on television. Not so bad in person.

It was quiet like a funeral for the first 20 minutes, but then picked up. FREEZING cold, though.

Flew to Amsterdam for 4 days before going home. Just went down to the parade. Lots of these shirts around.

lMEZ0.jpg
 
Jopub said:
You do surprise me sometimes mate

..wtf has that got to do with anything ?
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I do believe he's a bit bitter about that game

Either peterstory is a schizo or he likes his drinks like me and post under the influence. I enjoy his posts when he's in the right mood.
 
ERICSAGOD said:
Exactly.

It was almost a Catch 22 situation for Webb, if he had followed the letter of the law on every occasion, we would probably have had 5 or 6 players sent off, and he would have been criticised for that.

Overall, I think he did a great job under difficult circumstances.
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Q80 said:
Hollands qualms are pish.

If it wasnt for Webb, they'd be two players down. Dont know what they're complaining about.
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Dans said:
More Dutch moaning here: World Cup 2010: Holland attack 'chump' Howard Webb for refereeing 'scandal' - Telegraph

Frankly, I lost all respect for the Dutch after their approach became clear. Players on both sides are guilty of diving all game long so for the dutch to moan about Iniesta diving is a non point - in fact they should look at Van Bommels reaction to nothing more than a mild retaliatory kick from Iniesta after Van Bommel has again spent the previous 10 seconds clattering Iniesta. Van Bommel is the king of exaggerated reaction to minimal contact. Robben does it all the time too.

De Jong should have been sent off and plenty of their players could have seen 2nd yellows. Webb did all he could to keep the game a contest, whilst the players, mainly on the Dutch side, did all they could to con the referee all night long.

Webb made a mistake on the corner - agreed. But mistakes happen. For me the decision not to award the foul on the edge of the area after Elia goes down without even actually trying to get past the two men was spot on.

The players are to blame for this sour taste, not Howard Webb. The Dutch are nothing more than bad losers. Robben is the main reason they lost - he had two chances (including the one where he successfully held of the illegal challenge from Puyol) and fluffed both.
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Jopub said:
Bang on the money

Look at what they'd be saying now if he'd sent off three of their players two of them before half time (which he could easily have done).

They'd have gone on to lose the match probably 5/6-0 and would be screaming about him for that.

Have to say, like you, not have I only lost respect for them in the manner in which they played that game (during the game) but the way they're carrying on about it now makes them look even fking worse

I've always loved the Dutch and their whole ethic about football
.........but not any more
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I agree with all this. I was hoping for a Dutch win but now I'm glad they lost, they played despicably and they are now behaving worse than Argentines. I'm not a particular fan of Webb, but barring the corner mistake I find it hard to see how he could have improved it.
 
I hate refs who bottle it when it comes to red cards and book one player for something but ignore another doing exactly the same thing....if Holland ended up with 2 or 3 players sent off then so be it....it's not the ref's job to do all he can to keep it 11 v 11...Webb was shit.
 
Then tough...if they deserved to go it's not the ref's problem.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
For putting his studs into a man's chest?

Ridiculous.
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The worst challenge of the match was Van Bommel on Iniesta

I'm not disagreeing they could and probably should have both been red cards, but let's be fair, you can understand Webb's thinking here. The world and his wife would be at him for ruining the contest if he sends the Dutch down to nine men in the first half. He tried to manage the game but sadly, the Dutch were unmanageable

I hate that all this energy is spent criticising the ref, who did as good a job as he could in the circumstances. It takes away from the fact both sets of players were a disgrace, for differing (and some similar) reasons throughout the tournament, and the fact that clearly referee's need more help in this day and age to referee a football match

The ludicrous thing is that it's the Dutch leading the criticisms of Webb, and he gave them such leniency, I can't believe they have the front quite frankly!!!
 
Dans said:
I hope there is a reaction from the Dutch players, FA and coach to what Cruyff said. Granted, he's almost Spanish (Catalan?) these days, but he nailed it in his scathing criticism. But then, he's old school, like we are and liked the game more before there was too much to lose.
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Cruyff has just gone up even more in my estimation, unlike the rest of his countrymen.

FIFA need to give a clear mandate for referees to do the right thing, and blame the players if red cards ruin the game as a contest.
 
It says a lot about Webb's performance that the Dutch are complaining about it, and the main response is not that Webb made the correct decisions, but that he made several horrific decisions in their favour as well so they should shut up. His linesmen had a good World Cup, but in the Final Webb himself was absolute garbage. Probably the worst performance from any Englishman at the World Cup.
 
Dans said:
I hope there is a reaction from the Dutch players, FA and coach to what Cruyff said. Granted, he's almost Spanish (Catalan?) these days, but he nailed it in his scathing criticism. But then, he's old school, like we are and liked the game more before there was too much to lose.
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Cruyff fecking murdered them...and you'd like to think that would hurt some of them to hear their idol say what he did...Particularly their manager and his commander in chief...sorry, son in law.
 
204Red said:
Of all the things he did wrong, I think Webb booked Iniesta after he scored the winning goal in the world cup final for taking his shirt off to reveal a memorial notice to dead player and former team mate Dani Jarque... really, kind of sums up what a small man he really is.

If we can learn something about from this world cup it is that football is not, and should never be, about the referees... we should be talking about the players and not the quality of the officials.
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What a stupid post, from start to finish.

Stretch said:
The atmosphere was great but incredibly tense as I sat smack bang in the middle of a huge Holland contingent. Everyone was glued to their seats even though the match was not that great.
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Shocker, you'd think it was the World Cup final!
 
i thought he handled it very well. it was the biggest match of the tournament and he could have kept handing out yellows and reds until the game was a complete joke. he left it to the players to decide as much as he could. i'm fine with his performance.
 
Marching said:
I hate refs who bottle it when it comes to red cards and book one player for something but ignore another doing exactly the same thing....if Holland ended up with 2 or 3 players sent off then so be it....it's not the ref's job to do all he can to keep it 11 v 11...Webb was shit.
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Blimey Marching c'mon, you cannot end up in a situation where by half time its already 8 against ten, you just can't - that's absolutely ludicrous

The players have huge responsibility here to play the game, at worst, up to the limit of the rules, not beyond them and thereby forcing a ref to present us with an endless catalogue of sendings off in a world cup final

Jesus, you cannot surely just blame the ref in these circumstances. As I said imagine he'd done that by the 70th minute the Dutch would be down to 7 men and would have been slaughtered 6/7 -0

,,,,and what would they be saying now about that ?
 
Jopub said:
Blimey Marching c'mon, you cannot end up in a situation where by half time its already 8 against ten, you just can't - that's absolutely ludicrous

The players have huge responsibility here to play the game, at worst, up to the limit of the rules, not beyond them and thereby forcing a ref to present us with an endless catalogue of sendings off in a world cup final

Jesus, you cannot surely just blame the ref in these circumstances. As I said imagine he'd done that by the 70th minute the Dutch would be down to 7 men and would have been slaughtered 6/7 -0

,,,,and what would they be saying now about that ?
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If the Dutch had a player sent off they wouldn't have continued to play so aggressively, and if they did then that's down to their own stupidity, and they'd have had no chance of winning.
 
NextSeason said:
What a stupid post, from start to finish.



Shocker, you'd think it was the World Cup final!
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Pedantic little shit. If you couldn't work out that I was trying to imply that it was a much better match to see live than on TV then shut the feck up, mmmk? :smirk:
 
World Cup 2010: Howard Webb defends handing out 14 yellow cards in the final - Telegraph

“It is one of the toughest games we will ever be involved in and we feel that we worked hard to keep the focus on the football as much as possible,” he said.

“Whatever the match, you always hope that the officials won’t need to be heavily involved. However, we had to raise our profile in order to keep control.

“We don’t feel that we had much choice except to manage the game in the way we did. From early on in the match we had to make decisions that were clear yellow cards.

“We tried to apply some common-sense officiating given the magnitude of the occasion for both sides – advising players early on for some of their tackling, sending players away when they were surrounding the officials, and speaking to their senior colleagues to try and calm them down.

“We came away feeling satisfied that we’d done a tough job in difficult circumstances.”
 
Jopub said:
Blimey Marching c'mon, you cannot end up in a situation where by half time its already 8 against ten, you just can't - that's absolutely ludicrous

The players have huge responsibility here to play the game, at worst, up to the limit of the rules, not beyond them and thereby forcing a ref to present us with an endless catalogue of sendings off in a world cup final

Jesus, you cannot surely just blame the ref in these circumstances. As I said imagine he'd done that by the 70th minute the Dutch would be down to 7 men and would have been slaughtered 6/7 -0

,,,,and what would they be saying now about that ?
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Are you really suggesting the rules of the game should change depending on the game being pplayed? :wenger:

Of course players have responsibilties but surely the ref is simply there to apply the laws to the game and if, one side decides to foul their way through it, it's surely their problem and certainly isn't the opposition.

If Webb had not appeared weak and inconsistent by booking a Spanish player for kicking the ball away yet not booked a Dutch player for doing the exact same thing or if he'd had the balls to send a player off earlier the Dutch captain/manager might have had a word with his players to tone their aggression down a little.

I hope you get Webb in the title deciding game. ;)
 
Marching said:
Are you really suggesting the rules of the game should change depending on the game being pplayed? :wenger:

Of course players have responsibilties but surely the ref is simply there to apply the laws to the game ...... ;)
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Course not, however it is down to the discretion of the ref to interpret them as he sees fit in a game of such magnitude.

People are talking like he reffed the Sunday League at Hackney Marshes - christ its the World Cup final and as he explained in his Telegraph comments he was trying to keep the game a spectacle as well as trying to discipline two very ill-disciplined sides particularly Holland and as he ses he did have words with players of both side and particularly the more senior players but clearly Hollands thought fk that we'll kick our way to a win if thats what it takes

Actually I feel there is very good reason to punish the Dutch in some way for their whole attitude and demeanor in this game. They've made a mockery of any goodwill or spirit that the game had, which lets face it, with the perpetual cheating is in shreds anyway.

You simply cannot have a side that undermines the whole point of playing the game in the first place

...what a thing to teach the kids

...and for me nothing else Webb would have done could have made any difference to them other than making them end up with 6/7 players on the field which would have been worse than what actually happened
 
Jopub said:
clearly Hollands thought fk that we'll kick our way to a win if thats what it takes
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The Dutch conceded less free-kicks in 120 minutes than Man Utd did in 90 against us last season at OT.
 
kouroux said:
Again with this.Can you not get over it ?
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Offcourse he can't - what else does he have to hang his hat on last season other than ... we should have beaten United at OT if not for their rough housing.
 
B Cantona said:
The worst challenge of the match was Van Bommel on Iniesta

I'm not disagreeing they could and probably should have both been red cards, but let's be fair, you can understand Webb's thinking here. The world and his wife would be at him for ruining the contest if he sends the Dutch down to nine men in the first half. He tried to manage the game but sadly, the Dutch were unmanageable

I hate that all this energy is spent criticising the ref, who did as good a job as he could in the circumstances. It takes away from the fact both sets of players were a disgrace, for differing (and some similar) reasons throughout the tournament, and the fact that clearly referee's need more help in this day and age to referee a football match

The ludicrous thing is that it's the Dutch leading the criticisms of Webb, and he gave them such leniency, I can't believe they have the front quite frankly!!!
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I'm in Amsterdamn right now. They are furious with his inconsistency, which he was. And very much so.

But it doesn't matter what happened before, if a WC final ends on a horrible call, people are going to blame the ref. I was there, watched a team win it at the last minute in extra time and it was emotionless because we all saw the error on the other end. Doesn't matter how logical you want to be, the final play was what won the game and that's the only definitive moment. Everything else is what would have been.

For me, in the stadium, it was the worst possible ending and sadly one I predicted the minute Webb was put in charge.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
I'm in Amsterdamn right now. They are furious with his inconsistency, which he was. And very much so.

But it doesn't matter what happened before, if a WC final ends on a horrible call, people are going to blame the ref. I was there, watched a team win it at the last minute in extra time and it was emotionless because we all saw the error on the other end. Doesn't matter how logical you want to be, the final play was what won the game and that's the only definitive moment. Everything else is what would have been.

For me, in the stadium, it was the worst possible ending and sadly one I predicted the minute Webb was put in charge.
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It's irrelevant if you watched the match in the stadium or saw the whole thing on TV at home or in a bar. If Webb hadn't been lenient with the Dutch and allowed them to keep 11 on the field as long as he did, and if he'd sent off two Dutchmen in the first half and maybe another one later - they would not have had the players to be upfield and try to win a corner.

Yes it was a howler, but far bigger mistakes were made by the Dutch coaching team who instructed their players to behave in such a cynical and despicable way, and their players who followed such disgraceful instructions. I'm no Webb fan and was cheering for the Dutch, but I am now so pleased that they lost. If they had won it would have been a travesty; it was bad enough that the serial cheats of Spain won but they were that little bit more sporting than the Netherlands.
 
green demon said:
It's irrelevant if you watched the match in the stadium or saw the whole thing on TV at home or in a bar. If Webb hadn't been lenient with the Dutch and allowed them to keep 11 on the field as long as he did, and if he'd sent off two Dutchmen in the first half and maybe another one later - they would not have had the players to be upfield and try to win a corner.
.
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As I said, would of, could of doesn't really mean shit.

The only definitive moment was when he made an error that led to the winning goal.
 
Jopub said:
Course not, however it is down to the discretion of the ref to interpret them as he sees fit in a game of such magnitude.

People are talking like he reffed the Sunday League at Hackney Marshes - christ its the World Cup final and as he explained in his Telegraph comments he was trying to keep the game a spectacle as well as trying to discipline two very ill-disciplined sides particularly Holland and as he ses he did have words with players of both side and particularly the more senior players but clearly Hollands thought fk that we'll kick our way to a win if thats what it takes

Actually I feel there is very good reason to punish the Dutch in some way for their whole attitude and demeanor in this game. They've made a mockery of any goodwill or spirit that the game had, which lets face it, with the perpetual cheating is in shreds anyway.

You simply cannot have a side that undermines the whole point of playing the game in the first place

...what a thing to teach the kids

...and for me nothing else Webb would have done could have made any difference to them other than making them end up with 6/7 players on the field which would have been worse than what actually happened
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And I say it's not his fecking job to keep the game a spectacle and if he'd been a better ref the ill disciplined players would have soon got the message.
 
Marching said:
And I say it's not his fecking job to keep the game a spectacle and if he'd been a better ref the ill disciplined players would have soon got the message.
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Exactly, it is his job to apply the rules correctly, not ignore the rules to make the game more exciting. If the Dutch had been 2-0 down with 5 minutes to go and Sneijder had scored with his hand, nobody would have expected him to allow the goal because it would be more exciting.
 
Mockney said:
Cruyff fecking murdered them...and you'd like to think that would hurt some of them to hear their idol say what he did...Particularly their manager and his commander in chief...sorry, son in law.
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Give me a break, Cruyff is Catalan these days, he expressed his support for Spain before the game, and I'm sure none of the Dutch were too bothered about Cruyff.

As for Van Bommel, I thought he played well. He is a super annoying player, always on the fringe of what is legal, always trying to interfere, but you can't deny he interpreted his role very well on Sunday. One hard foul on Iniesta, that was it. Iniesta made a meal of it all game long. He's lucky Claudio Gentile wasn't around to mark him.
 
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