Howard Webb's Performance

peterstorey said:
It was a professional foul to stop Elia from going into the area with the ball. Definite foul and probably a booking (though Ramos' first one was harsh).
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Boss said:
You've said in the Premier League it's not a foul, this isn't the Premiership, this is the World Cup, just like the Champions League refs aren't as lenient as they apply the rules very strictly.

Rooney gets away with swearing at refs in the Prem but before the tournament started he was warned he wouldn't get away with it at the World Cup. It's a whole different stage and Webb can't be a Premiership ref at this world cup, he has to an International one.

What Ramos did was a foul, especially when you compare it to all the very soft fouls Webb was blowing earlier. There was no consistency with the decision and I was in disbelief as Navas charged up the field with the ball. Ramos intentionally blocked the players path. I don't see why it's a debate, he clearly blocked him off, Webb made a mistake.

I say I'm not interested because posters have annoyed you so much with their agendas during this World Cup that I just think you're siding with the Spanish just because of that. I don't even know if you believe what you're saying anymore. This is not about picking sides, as a neutral, was that not a foul?

I'm not saying Webb didn't do well under the circumstances, all I'm saying is that he made a mistake, and the Dutch who have lost their biggest match of their lives, as human beings have a right to be upset about that mistake.
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no i agree it was a foul...but I think it was a marginal foul...one that we see not given all the time, and nothing to get that uppity about...because we see it not given all the time (thus it's marginal) and it was hardly much different to a sheilding obstruction, which is always allowed (however stupid I think that is)

Yes I understand why the Duth are upset to a degree, but the sheer hypocrisy of being blatant thugs, having Webb keep them in the game by showing leniency to De Jong, Van Bommel and Robben, and then flinging insults at him for a little barge is pathetic and I think it's farcial to go on about it the way they - and you - seem to be. Even the pundits on the beeb said it was iffy...yes they may be complete and utter spastic spastics, but that's at least some evidence that it's hardly just me going on about it cos I wanted spain to win...I just wanted a good game, but find the Dutch behavior since reprehensible, and really didn't see that as much of a big deal in the scheme of things...They wanted a physcial game? They got it there..tough shit.

Now the corner they never ot was a much bigger deal...and a much bigger mistake. But all in all, I still feel Webb did well in the face of complete anarchy

and I don't see how you can say otherwise...anyway, I'm not interested
 
I think Webb was too fussy and should have been stronger against the Spanish diving & pestering and the Dutch's take on the cheating textbook from the very beginning. He tried to stamp his authority on the game by flashing the cards - but as I seem to have to point out every week this is not the way to do it and often backfires.

Other than that I can only echo what has already been said about what a difficult game it was to referee. So much pressure was put on him by both sets of players not only with their attempts to con him but also by surrounding him at every opportunity. He could have been stronger but many refs would have completely lost the plot. For the record I think it was a foul on Elia, but even then Holland have only themselves to blame.
 
ENGLISH referee Howard Webb may be the most hated man in Holland today — after handing out a record 15 cards during the World Cup final.

Dutch players blamed the ref for their extra-time defeat to Spain yesterday.

And newspapers in the Netherlands have also rounded on Webb today, branding him a "chump".

An article in AD Sportwereld said: "The Dutch national team perished in the World Cup final — thanks largely to a chump of a referee.

Dishing them out ... Webb


"It was a riveting battle, emerging through the tension but the Philistines were helped by Howard Webb, a controversial referee from England.

"He hopped across the pitch, handing out cards, each time preceding the act with an irritating address of the culprit.

"The teams deserved a referee in top form but that was certainly not the case with Webb.

"Spain's winning goal was understandably celebrated passionately by the Spaniards but the blunder by Webb which came before — he missed an obvious corner for Holland, took the shine off it, at least for the Dutch."

MySun users have also slammed the ref.

One wrote: "In true Howard Webb style, the post-match talk is about him rather than the game. Webb, like most other premier league refs, applies a warped agenda to the games he referees.

"As an Englishman, I am embarrassed that our representative in the final fell for Spanish histrionics."

Another added: "Mrs Webb knew what she was talking about when she was surprised to hear that hubbie Howard was appointed referee for the World Cup final — and said he can't even control his own children.

"What a poor display by this referee. He is to blame for letting the game get completely out of hand.

"Both teams should have left the pitch after the final whistle with 9 players at the most."

Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf noted: "The referee failed to calm the mood in 120 minutes.

"That he was booed at the final ceremony by both the Dutch and Spanish fans was significant."


However, Fifa President Sepp Blatter has backed the former police sergeant.

Criticism of Webb also appeared in the Spanish media, whose members appeared not to have forgiven him for errors in the group stages.

In El Mundo Deportivo it said: "Holland were able to count on an unexpected ally: referee Howard Webb, who allowed the Dutch to get away with brutal fouls time and time again.

"Holland committed 28 fouls and the referee should have sent off De Jong for a karate kick on Xabi Alonso.

"(Wesley) Sneijder was also let off and Howard Webb failed to award a penalty for a Heitinga foul on Xavi."

Read more: Webb is 'Holland's most hated' | The Sun |News
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haha, at the contrasting reactions from the Spain and Holland press
 
The Dutch should be hating Robben more than anyone else. All tournament he's been playing for himself and it's his misses and his non-pass to RVP that would have been a definite goal that probably cost them the cup.

Selfish cnut of a cnuty player.
 
B Cantona said:
I've not read the thread through, people are seriously criticising him for that?

Tools. He got it absolutely spot on, it's a clearcut case in the rule book, no interpretation needed. Criticise the rule sure, don't criticise the ref correctly implement it

That's where ref criticism becomes farcical. That and criticising a ref for making a right decision, because last week another ref gave a different decision in the same circumstances, and so there's 'inconsistency'

Absolute garbage!

The Dutch are making fools of themselves. All those so quick to criticise English fans after elimination might do well to realise there's plenty others who react the same if not worse
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Please... the only thing that was garbage was Webb's performance in extra time.... and to claim that the Iniesta yellow card call was spot on shows how out of touch with the game he really is.

And I am criticizing the ref for a series or poor calls, I'd rather the ref get all of the other calls right, the ones which count in a football match... especially on the goal itself... and let the player take off his shirt to memorialize a former team mate. I hope whoever is evaluating his performance looks at each of the missed calls in Extra time and says to Mr. Webb "well you blew all of the actual important 'footballing' calls, but thank god you applied the letter of the law to booking the guy for taking off his shirt to commemorate a fallen comrade, we can't have players doing that, people might think they are human... and next time keep better track of how often the managers step outside of the technical area... thats a rule too, and we must enforce it"

I'll bet each and everyone of you this... if that had happened to a United player doing that to commemorate a former team mate, and he got booked for it, you would all be up in arms over it. There is a time and place to let things go, Webb let a great deal of things go in that match, like the clear yellow card Iniesta should have received 10 mins earlier for that retaliatory foul off the ball, right in front of the referee, no less. That too is an iron clad yellow card... yet Web chose to keep his card in his pocket on this occasion... so why single out the celebration moment for punishment? it makes no sense and shows someone who is out of touch with the game.

I'll accept that it was a difficult game to referee, but Mr Webb's performance did not cover him in glory, considering there is no higher accolade for a referee than to officiate the world cup final.
 
SEPP BLATTER has come out in defence of under-fire World Cup final referee Howard Webb.

The FIFA president insisted the English official had a "very hard task" in last night's fiery clash, where Spain beat 10-man Holland 1-0 in extra-time.

Webb produced a record 14 yellow cards, as well as a red for Johnny Heitinga, and the furious Dutch players have claimed he favoured the Spanish.

But other critics have suggested Webb should have been even tougher and sent off Nigel de Jong and Mark van Bommel rather than just booking them for some horrendous challenges.

Blatter said: "The final was not exactly what I expected in terms of fair play.

"It's not up to me judge the performances of the officials, I can only say it was a very hard task that the referee trio had on the field of play.

"It was not easy, really not easy and they were really not helped in this task I can say."

Blatter refused to comment on the rugged approach by Holland but did say "the side that played football won".

At a news conference in Johannesburg, he added: "Even though I have seen all the irregularities as a spectator, I cannot answer this question as president of FIFA.

"I could answer it as a fan of football but I am here as president.



"Football is a school of life because it is based on discipline and respect.

"It's a combat game but in the spirit of fair play.

"You have to learn to win and you have to learn to lose, and should not forget the basis which is discipline and respect."

When asked whether Webb should have shown a red card to Van Bommel and De Jong, Blatter said: "In football we have to live with the errors of players and of referees. I don't think perfection exists in this world.

"But I have to compliment the winners the Spanish national team. Finally we had a winner playing good football.

"And big compliments to South Africa. The wonderful hospitality given by the people was something very great.

"Africa has proven they can organise this World Cup and can organise a big competition. We trusted South Africa and with our trust they got their confidence and they should be proud."

The FIFA president apologised to England and Mexico for refereeing mistakes earlier in the tournament — over Frank Lampard's disallowed goal and a Carlos Tevez header against Mexico that was blatantly offside.

He said: "A goal was not given in a match between England and Germany and it went all around the world, it was like a cry, an alarm that something very, very important has happened.

"It was said 'will you reopen the file of technology' and I have said 'yes, goal-line technology will be looked at again by the International FA Board', but only goal-line technology."
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Read more: Sepp Blatter has defended referee Howard Webb | The Sun |Sport|Football

Very interesting words from a Fifa president
 
Mockney said:
hose criticising him, tell me, how should he have controlled this game? Sent 2 dutch players off in the first half? Not book anyone and let it all flow whilst the Dutch kicked seven shades of shit out of the Spanish? Eh?...I'm lost as to how anyone is actually that bothered by Webbs performance, he was put in a situation harder than any ref in any WC final has ever been in, and dealt with it with common sense...He made a few mistakes, but when you set out your stall to be a dirty team, you can't complain about having a few innocuous decisions go against you...It's madness
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Exactly.

It was a terrible match for a referee, no matter what he did he was going to be castigated afterwards. It was one of those matches that I don't think any referee in the world (not even that mythical beast of Colina) would have been able to get under control, but Webb did as well as you could expect. He tried to keep it 11 vs 11 so as not to destroy the game as a spectacle, but wasn't afraid to hand out yellows when needed and to try to restrain the dirty-ness. He did get a few individual decisions wrong to both teams, but his overall game was quite good.
 
Grinner said:
The Dutch should be hating Robben more than anyone else. All tournament he's been playing for himself and it's his misses and his non-pass to RVP that would have been a definite goal that probably cost them the cup.

Selfish cnut of a cnuty player.
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Ha. Had you been there you might have said differently. Van Persie was fecking horrendous. Worst player on the pitch, especially in the second half.
 
Mockney said:
no i agree it was a foul...but I think it was a marginal foul...one that we see not given all the time, and nothing to get that uppity about...because we see it not given all the time (thus it's marginal) and it was hardly much different to a sheilding obstruction, which is always allowed (however stupid I think that is)
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It was nothing like a shielding obstruction, it was a pro foul to defuse a very dangerous situation. It was also really obvious to anticipate if you can read the game to a basic level since Ramos was in big trouble.
 
I think Webb done well, tough game to ref. Got the decision on the corner wrong and the dutch are conveniently using him as a scapegoat to cover up the dire defending which led to the goal. Not to mention the numerous fouls they committed.
 
204Red said:
Please... the only thing that was garbage was Webb's performance in extra time.... and to claim that the Iniesta yellow card call was spot on shows how out of touch with the game he really is.

And I am criticizing the ref for a series or poor calls, I'd rather the ref get all of the other calls right, the ones which count in a football match... especially on the goal itself... and let the player take off his shirt to memorialize a former team mate. I hope whoever is evaluating his performance looks at each of the missed calls in Extra time and says to Mr. Webb "well you blew all of the actual important 'footballing' calls, but thank god you applied the letter of the law to booking the guy for taking off his shirt to commemorate a fallen comrade, we can't have players doing that, people might think they are human... and next time keep better track of how often the managers step outside of the technical area... thats a rule too, and we must enforce it"

I'll bet each and everyone of you this... if that had happened to a United player doing that to commemorate a former team mate, and he got booked for it, you would all be up in arms over it. There is a time and place to let things go, Webb let a great deal of things go in that match, like the clear yellow card Iniesta should have received 10 mins earlier for that retaliatory foul off the ball, right in front of the referee, no less. That too is an iron clad yellow card... yet Web chose to keep his card in his pocket on this occasion... so why single out the celebration moment for punishment? it makes no sense and shows someone who is out of touch with the game.

I'll accept that it was a difficult game to referee, but Mr Webb's performance did not cover him in glory, considering there is no higher accolade for a referee than to officiate the world cup final.
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Ridiculous post.
 
This was a dirty game with dishonest players all over the pitch. The Dutch was in for a war and did their best to kick the shit out of their opponents. The blue team was doing their best to con the referee in every single incident.

Howard Webb was in a loose and loose situation. It was just a matter of time before he was going to do a crucial mistake. If he get a yellow or two wrong is irrelevant. In extra time he was trapped several time's but he did his best in a impossible game.

I blame two teams who has for the whole tournament trying to dive, con or kick the shit out of each other.

Van Bommel and Capedevile! Same shit in different colours.
 
My thinking is that if that game is led by the Uzbek or the Japanese or the Brazilian, we would probably have 8 vs 8 at the end of the game.
 
Thought he did fine. Think the dutch staff and players and coach criticising him have got a right cheek. REd cards should have been given in the first half but he wanted to keep a spectacle of it and he'd have been criticised if he'd have sent people off.

Tx
 
tintedsepia said:
Thought he did fine. Think the dutch staff and players and coach criticising him have got a right cheek. Red cards should have been given in the first half but he wanted to keep a spectacle of it and he'd have been criticised if he'd have sent people off.
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Exactly.

It was almost a Catch 22 situation for Webb, if he had followed the letter of the law on every occasion, we would probably have had 5 or 6 players sent off, and he would have been criticised for that.

Overall, I think he did a great job under difficult circumstances.
 
Hollands qualms are pish.

If it wasnt for Webb, they'd be two players down. Dont know what they're complaining about.
 
Grinner said:
You may have been there but I don't think you understood what you were watching.
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Sorry, I was talking about the guy who didn't appear to complete a pass in the second half and spent quite a bit of time not moving much,
 
More Dutch moaning here: World Cup 2010: Holland attack 'chump' Howard Webb for refereeing 'scandal' - Telegraph

Frankly, I lost all respect for the Dutch after their approach became clear. Players on both sides are guilty of diving all game long so for the dutch to moan about Iniesta diving is a non point - in fact they should look at Van Bommels reaction to nothing more than a mild retaliatory kick from Iniesta after Van Bommel has again spent the previous 10 seconds clattering Iniesta. Van Bommel is the king of exaggerated reaction to minimal contact. Robben does it all the time too.

De Jong should have been sent off and plenty of their players could have seen 2nd yellows. Webb did all he could to keep the game a contest, whilst the players, mainly on the Dutch side, did all they could to con the referee all night long.

Webb made a mistake on the corner - agreed. But mistakes happen. For me the decision not to award the foul on the edge of the area after Elia goes down without even actually trying to get past the two men was spot on.

The players are to blame for this sour taste, not Howard Webb. The Dutch are nothing more than bad losers. Robben is the main reason they lost - he had two chances (including the one where he successfully held of the illegal challenge from Puyol) and fluffed both.
 
Dans said:
More Dutch moaning here: World Cup 2010: Holland attack 'chump' Howard Webb for refereeing 'scandal' - Telegraph

Frankly, I lost all respect for the Dutch after their approach became clear. Players on both sides are guilty of diving all game long so for the dutch to moan about Iniesta diving is a non point - in fact they should look at Van Bommels reaction to nothing more than a mild retaliatory kick from Iniesta after Van Bommel has again spent the previous 10 seconds clattering Iniesta. Van Bommel is the king of exaggerated reaction to minimal contact. Robben does it all the time too.

De Jong should have been sent off and plenty of their players could have seen 2nd yellows. Webb did all he could to keep the game a contest, whilst the players, mainly on the Dutch side, did all they could to con the referee all night long.

Webb made a mistake on the corner - agreed. But mistakes happen. For me the decision not to award the foul on the edge of the area after Elia goes down without even actually trying to get past the two men was spot on.

The players are to blame for this sour taste, not Howard Webb. The Dutch are nothing more than bad losers. Robben is the main reason they lost - he had two chances (including the one where he successfully held of the illegal challenge from Puyol) and fluffed both.
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Bang on the money

Look at what they'd be saying now if he'd sent off three of their players two of them before half time (which he could easily have done).

They'd have gone on to lose the match probably 5/6-0 and would be screaming about him for that.

Have to say, like you, not have I only lost respect for them in the manner in which they played that game (during the game) but the way they're carrying on about it now makes them look even fking worse

I've always loved the Dutch and their whole ethic about football
.........but not any more
 
I hope there is a reaction from the Dutch players, FA and coach to what Cruyff said. Granted, he's almost Spanish (Catalan?) these days, but he nailed it in his scathing criticism. But then, he's old school, like we are and liked the game more before there was too much to lose.
 
- De Jong should have been sent off in the first half.
- Van Bommel should have been sent off in all halves.
- His incident with Iniesta started by him going with high studs on Iniesta's leg. That's how Eduardo and Ramsey got their legs broken!! Can't believe the dutch are talking about this incident. If Iniesta deserved a red card for it, Van Bommel deserved a black card..whatever that means. (not to mention Van Bommel made the most of it).
- Heitinga's cards are deserved
- Robben should have been sent off for a second yellow after kicking the ball half an hour after hearing the whistle
- Puyol should have been sent off if Robben fell off. Surprisingly, Robben forgot his diving theatrics at that particular moment.
- Should have been a corner of course for the dutch, but blaming this for the goal is a feckin' pathetic excuse!!!
- In my opinion, it wasn't a foul on Elia. We see that many times in each and every match . Even if it was a foul, blaming it for the goal is another pathetic excuse. De Jong says "what could we do?". How about defending properly you Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime!!

For the FIFA, I think Howard's main mistakes will be not sending De Jong and Robben off. Might have missed Van Bommel's high studs. And the corner is a simple mistake that can happen to anyone like calling a throw in for the wrong side. Puyol's arm slowed Robben for a sec. but he didn't fall and any ref. will probably wave play on.
 
I think the ref is stuck between a rock and hard place if teams come out to stick the boot in and / or dive, cheat and flash imaginery cards about. The attitudes of the two teams set the tone, not the ref, so I think the officials were pretty blameless myself...

If the Dutch want to moan, they should blame Robben, he had the game in his hands when he was through one on one versus Casillas and fluffed his lines..... to blame the ref when some of their challanges were scandalous is sour grapes...

As for the Spanish, they commit plenty of sly fouls themselves, and should "man up" when they take the whacks, instead of trying to take the moral high ground and be beyond a physical challenge...

to sum up , I don't blame the officials, and at least the decisive goal was during open play and not due to any controversial decision....

Hard luck Nederlands - you did damn well though ! Well done Espana - deserved winners but some of your players need to grow a pair
 
Very difficult game to ref...I think most refs would made dodgy decisions. Shame the one he got really wrong changed the game but Spain did well in the build up to the goal.
 
Jopub said:
Bang on the money

Look at what they'd be saying now if he'd sent off three of their players two of them before half time (which he could easily have done).
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You do realise that van Bommel made less fouls in 120 mins than Fletcher did against us in 90 at OT last season (with no card of any colour)?
 
kouroux said:
The nature of the fouls were different.Did Fletcher make a tackle like the one Bommel did on Iniesta ?
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Fletcher's worst foul was in the box denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Arshavin didn't squeal like a stuck pig though.
 
Spammy said:
Are we talking about Van Bommel's tackle on Iniesta in the first half? Are some of you seriously suggesting that was a red card offence?
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"Some"?

I see one poster who has suggested that Van Bommel made enough fouls in the game to have been sent off.

Have more than one poster suggested he should have been sent off for a foul on Iniesta?
 
peterstorey said:
You do realise that van Bommel made less fouls in 120 mins than Fletcher did against us in 90 at OT last season (with no card of any colour)?
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Ahh, the joy of Arsenal bitterness. How I've missed it this last month.

Its good that the season is getting ready to start.
 
I actually saw the game again and I retract my criticisms of Webb I made earlier in this thread. It really was a difficult game to referee and the two teams should be ashamed of themselves.
 
Boss said:
No he was dogshite, might aswell not have played

3/10
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kouroux said:
Yeah Van Persie was easily Holland's worst player
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I'm not entirely sure he meant to give Casillas the ball back from that corner...he was so shite that could easily have just been his attempt to take a corner..

ruddevil said:
My thinking is that if that game is led by the Uzbek or the Japanese or the Brazilian, we would probably have 8 vs 8 at the end of the game.
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At least there would've been more goals

Spammy said:
Are we talking about Van Bommel's tackle on Iniesta in the first half? Are some of you seriously suggesting that was a red card offence?
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Considering he was already on a yellow, and numerous cautions, yes. I don't think it was a straight red though.
 
Stretch said:
I actually saw the game again and I retract my criticisms of Webb I made earlier in this thread. It really was a difficult game to referee and the two teams should be ashamed of themselves.
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What was the atmos like?....Shocking game to watch for football, but I'd imagine it was quite tense, possibly in a good way...or not?
 
I thought Webb did a great job in:

a) trying to keep the FINAL of the Fifa WC competitive by having 11 v 11 for as long as he did.

b) neither sets of players were controllable - especially the Dutch, as they seemed to think that it was against the rules to send anyone off in the final - after Webb dishing out so many yellow cards, the players continued with their physical approach

c) the game was stop - start at times, especially the first half, but that was because the fouling wasn't just excessive and niggly, it was right thuggery at times. I am not sure what else Webb could have done, then blow up and book the guilty party!? (he tried to play advantage as much as he could)

d) as rightly pointed out, any other match would have ended 11 v 11 with a referee that "reluctant" to ruin the spectacle, so the Dutch does not have much to complain about as they should have been down to 9 men in the first half alone. Followed by Puyol and Robben...(of course 1 sending off would have changed those outcomes, but thats for another day).

I will congragulate Webb on a job well done, considering the circumstances and the 22 players involved.
 
Mockney said:
I'm not entirely sure he meant to give Casillas the ball back from that corner...he was so shite that could easily have just been his attempt to take a corner..
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Really true.It was a final ffs, even Kuyt tried looked more interested to try things whereas he's so limited
 
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