How peaceful is Islam?

How this ISIS and Al Qaida recruit and brainwash people to committ them in to suiciding is, firstly they are smart they recruit children who are uneducated because no educated person would ever believe that our religion would ask us to kill innocent people. Then they brainwash them and similar to this verse they have other verses which are told in the different context, because Quran wasn't like a book ready made sent to Prophet Muhammad, it was slowly and gradually sent verse by verse and according to the situations and circumstances so that people would know the context.

To clearify my point, there is a verse in Quran which says curse on the person who prays, and then follows it by saying who prays just to show of people and not for the love of Allah.

The concept of Jihad is similar its a verse translated which actually explains how much Allah rates people who give their life to fight of people who are hell bent of killing muslims. It says those who have given their life for Islam and Allah although in the eyes of people they are dead, but they are not they live in the eternal life.
 
I would like to quote What Hazrat muhammad SAW said about groups like ISIS, Al- Qaida and etc
"Their speech is beautiful, yet their actions are ugly, they quote the Quran, yet have absolutely no understanding of it, and those whom they fight in the name of Islam (ie., the majority of the Muslim world!) are closer to Islam than they are".
 
LeChuck said:
Muhammad bin al Hajjaj is his short name, and literally means Muhammad son of the Hajjaj.

Muhammad ibn al-Hajjaaj al-Lakhami Abu Ibraaheem al-Waasiti is his full name and literally means Muhammad son of the Hajjaj, the Lakhaami, father of Ibrahim the Waasiti.

The second one contains a grammatical error which I've bolded (I had copy pasted his name from a website, so it wasn't me typing that mistake).

Both ibn and bin mean 'son of'.

However, if we are going to refer to people as 'son of' without the first name, we always should use Ibn and not bin. This is why when people say 'bin Laden', they are grammatically incorrect, it should be 'Ibn Laden'. But if you are going to use his full name it should be Osama bin Laden. You can also use Osama ibn Laden, but bin is used when the full name is used.

bin/ibn isn't really a name, just means son of. The female version is bint. So Asma bint Marwan translates as Asma daughter of Marwan.
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Thanks. I though that was going to be the case.

Just reading about this now. One thing I am confused about is how they proclaim one thing to be true and another to be a lie. What is the basis for this and on who's authority?
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
How this ISIS and Al Qaida recruit and brainwash people to committ them in to suiciding is, firstly they are smart they recruit children who are uneducated because no educated person would ever believe that our religion would ask us to kill innocent people. Then they brainwash them and similar to this verse they have other verses which are told in the different context, because Quran wasn't like a book ready made sent to Prophet Muhammad, it was slowly and gradually sent verse by verse and according to the situations and circumstances so that people would know the context.

To clearify my point, there is a verse in Quran which says curse on the person who prays, and then follows it by saying who prays just to show of people and not for the love of Allah.

The concept of Jihad is similar its a verse translated which actually explains how much Allah rates people who give their life to fight of people who are hell bent of killing muslims. It says those who have given their life for Islam and Allah although in the eyes of people they are dead, but they are not they live in the eternal life.
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The most recent attacks in Europe were committed by middle class European Muslims from a free land.
 
Eboue said:
Er, no. There are lots of highly educated Islamic terrorists.
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The leader or the master mind might be, but the recruits are all young, and from the age of 12 onwards they are fed up with bullshit about how killing those people will lead you to heaven etc, the whole context is changed just to suit there agenda.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Thanks. I though that was going to be the case.

Just reading about this now. One thing I am confused about is how they proclaim one thing to be true and another to be a lie. What is the basis for this and on who's authority?
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Who do you mean?
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
I would like to quote What Hazrat muhammad SAW said about groups like ISIS, Al- Qaida and etc
"Their speech is beautiful, yet their actions are ugly, they quote the Quran, yet have absolutely no understanding of it, and those whom they fight in the name of Islam (ie., the majority of the Muslim world!) are closer to Islam than they are".
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Isis believe strongly that they are right. They believe they are true muslims. So others claiming they are not Muslim only enforces their beliefs that everyone else is an infidel or heretic.
 
A peep into Muslim households.

The talks and arguments in our households are generally about football, cricket, education and TV soaps.

Muslim households do not discuss Jihad, stoning, gays, apostacy, suicide bombers, ISIS or have any idea about their existence. Discuss these subjects away from a computer/Google and most people except the very learned will be lost including almost all Muslims.

All the lectures and talks at the mosque, books provided are only ever based on belief in the existence and the oneness of God, submission to Him - which basically means worshipping Him and thanking Him for His blessings. Respecting our elders, neighbours, Friendliness towards the human race.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
The leader or the master mind might be, but the recruits are all young, and from the age of 12 onwards they are fed up with bullshit about how killing those people will lead you to heaven etc, the whole context is changed just to suit there agenda.
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No that's just not true. Look at the backgrounds of the 9/11 terrorists for a start.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Isis believe strongly that they are right. They believe they are true muslims. So others claiming they are not Muslim only enforces their beliefs that everyone else is an infidel or heretic.
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They can claim all they want, it won't make them right, the fact is they are hateful human beings which don't even deserve to be called human beings, who in the name of Islam embarrass others Muslims, and the sooner they die the better it will be for this world.
 
syrian_scholes said:
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You can't blame Islam for her niece's idiot father, women has the right to choose who to marry and a Muslim man should always treat his wife the right way and be good with her, also Islam allows women to work and gave them many many rights so the reason she's basing her fight against Islam on is wrong.
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syrian_scholes said:
Why is that? So the Islamophobic woman isn't biased but because I'm a muslim I'm biased?
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syrian_scholes said:
Here's a link of some of women rights in Islam. @Fearless
http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e2510
And by the way my mom is a working muslim woman.
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I don't know what to say - there are millions of women who have their basic human rights taken away from them because of Islam and it's Sharia law, yet you claim you are not biased? Sorry, but you are losing a lot of credibility.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
They can claim all they want, it won't make them right, the fact is they are hateful human beings which don't even deserve to be called human beings, who in the name of Islam embarrass others Muslims, and the sooner they die the better it will be for this world.
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I don't think you can tell anyone what their faith is tbh. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone. I might question it and scratch beneath the surface, or what's accepted in this day, but I wouldn't tell someone they weren't a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu etc.

Its not something for me or you to decide.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Isis believe strongly that they are right. They believe they are true muslims. So others claiming they are not Muslim only enforces their beliefs that everyone else is an infidel or heretic.
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Not true, when you say they are doing things that Islam has strictly forbidden like taking the soul of another human being who caused no harm then they can't be considered Muslims, if someone wants to be a Muslim they have to follow the whole religion not twist it in their own ways.
 
syrian_scholes said:
Not true, when you say they are doing things that Islam has strictly forbidden like taking the soul of another human being who caused no harm then they can't be considered Muslims, if someone wants to be a Muslim they have to follow the whole religion not twist it in their own ways.
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Highly debatable. Which is why we have this thread.

If Muslims have to follow the whole religion, why isn't there just one kind of Muslim? Do you see how its simply not possible.
 
Momochiru said:
I don't know what to say - there are millions of women who have their basic human rights taken away from them because of Islam and it's Sharia law, yet you claim you are not biased? Sorry, but you are losing a lot of credibility.
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So you haven't read the article yet you claim I'm being dishonest and biased, just read the article, I had to read extensively on the marriage issue and ask a Sheikh because I didn't know if I can marry my gf if her parents don't agree, all the Fatwas says that forbidding two people of getting married is haram and may cause suffering of those two who want to get married.
 
Eboue said:
No that's just not true. Look at the backgrounds of the 9/11 terrorists for a start.
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The problem actually stems from this simple fact, are you close to religion and understand it, it is easier for them to recruit people who don't have proper understanding(which is usually children), and people who although may appear to be educated, but are so far away from religion that whatever any tom dick and harry explain them they will buy into it.

Pakistan's Army is doing an operation against Al- Qaida like groups after the Attack in Peshawar at School. They found seperate rooms for every suicide bomber and verses of quran which are taken into wrong context written just to solidify their beliefs and pictures of heaven attached to their walls. The simple point is they choose people who are either children which can be fed with anything or people so far of religion that anything told to them will be treated as gospel and they would believe it. Just put it into context how thick you have to be that you go and committ suicide thinking not once about your family, friends, close relatives, children etc.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Highly debatable. Which is why we have this thread.

If Muslims have to follow the whole religion, why isn't there just one kind of Muslim? Do you see how its simply not possible.
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The Sunnis are all alike, there some difference on some small stuff between some Sheikhs but no about killing of people and the most important stuff, I can't talk about Shia as I know next to nothing about their religion.
 
Momochiru said:
I don't know what to say - there are millions of women who have their basic human rights taken away from them because of Islam and it's Sharia law, yet you claim you are not biased? Sorry, but you are losing a lot of credibility.
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@LeChuck Can you back me up on this issue since it's a pretty major issue? you speak better than me brother.
 
UnitedinRed said:
I don't think you can tell anyone what their faith is tbh. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone. I might question it and scratch beneath the surface, or what's accepted in this day, but I wouldn't tell someone they weren't a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu etc.

Its not something for me or you to decide.
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As far as ISIS or these other groups are concerned, I would tell them if they are potraying the wrong picture of my Religion, and being totally wrong and baseless, obviously i wouldn't want to question or debate any hindu, Christian, Jew because they are from different religion, it is actually forbidden for a Muslim to defame anybody's religion or its religious views and mock them, the most you can do is invite them and tell them about your religion, and if they choose to accept it, then they are more than welcome but they can't be forced thats the principle, while ISIS and others want people to follow them and they try to use coercion if they don't and fight against all those who refuse.
 
syrian_scholes said:
The Sunnis are all alike, there some difference on some small stuff between some Sheikhs but no about killing of people and the most important stuff, I can't talk about Shia as I know next to nothing about their religion.
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Ok. That causes only further confusion if I am honest. Now there isn't just one understanding of the qaran but at least two, possible even more within those two.
 
syrian_scholes said:
@LeChuck Can you back me up on this issue since it's a pretty major issue? you speak better than me brother.
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I don't know what backing up you need and why it is so difficult for you to admit that there is a massive gender inequality in Islam. And this is not only an issue in Islam but also in Judaism and Christianity. The Haredim in Israel are fighting for gender segregated buses. Some Christian denominations do not permit women to be ordained and have the same level of responsibility as men. Similar and even worse injustices exist in Islam as well. I am a Christian but I could write an essay on things that suck in religion, religious practice, internal and external denominational quarrels and sticking to outdated, archaic traditions, etc. Why are you so defensive?
 
LeChuck said:
Which basic human rights?
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The woman in the video said that she fights islam because of a terrorist attack on her college and that because the father of her niece forced the niece to marry her cousin, I tried telling him that it's cultural and Islam doesn't allow on forcing marraige on women and that my mom is a working devoted Muslim who is a doctor btw.
 
Mihajlovic said:
I don't know what backing up you need and why it is so difficult for you to admit that there is a massive gender inequality in Islam. And this is not only an issue in Islam but also in Judaism and Christianity. The Haredim in Israel are fighting for gender segregated buses. Some Christian denominations do not permit women to be ordained and have the same level of responsibility as men. Similar and even worse injustices exist in Islam as well. I am a Christian but I could write an essay on things that suck in religion, religious practice, internal and external denominational quarrels and sticking to outdated, archaic traditions, etc. Why are you so defensive?
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The point was that Islam doesn't force marriage on woman and allow woman to work and pursue knowledge contrary to public belief.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
As far as ISIS or these other groups are concerned, I would tell them if they are potraying the wrong picture of my Religion, and being totally wrong and baseless, obviously i wouldn't want to question or debate any hindu, Christian, Jew because they are from different religion, it is actually forbidden for a Muslim to defame anybody's religion or its religious views and mock them, the most you can do is invite them and tell them about your religion, and if they choose to accept it, then they are more than welcome but they can't be forced thats the principle, while ISIS and others want people to follow them and they try to use coercion if they don't and fight against all those who refuse.
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Eh? If the Quran forbids defaming other religions, how do you explain Dhimmi? Who were deemed lesser because of their faith. They were only granted this status and not subject to genocide because they in fact followed the same religion at its roots. They were considered people of the book.

The status of the Dhimmis in Muslim lands is very interesting. Another that on one hand is denied because of its negative implications on Islam but has a very different story from those considered Dhimmi.
 
@Mihajlovic @Momochiru I'm giving you an example from my own family, my mom is a doctor and my father is a doctor she drives him to work actually and she boss him around all the time, my girlfriend is in Med school with me and all of that is in a Muslim country where ISIS originated from so how is that not getting their rights? What more rights do you want?
 
syrian_scholes said:
The woman in the video said that she fights islam because of a terrorist attack on her college and that because the father of her niece forced the niece to marry her cousin, I tried telling him that it's cultural and Islam doesn't allow on forcing marraige on women and that my mom is a working devoted Muslim who is a doctor btw.
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We're going back to Wafa Sultan, the Alawi.

@Momochiru - forced marriage is forbidden. I watched the video, and undoubtedly, it is a sad story, but blaming that on religion, as opposed to culture and tribal mentality seen in Arab countries is where she went wrong. It happens in Pakistan, India, and other countries, and it is a facet of culture / tradition as opposed to religion.

It happens in sub Saharan Africa (predominantly Christian).
It happens in Indian (predominantly Hindu).

This should show you that it isn't the religion, but the culture of these places.
 
syrian_scholes said:
The woman in the video said that she fights islam because of a terrorist attack on her college and that because the father of her niece forced the niece to marry her cousin, I tried telling him that it's cultural and Islam doesn't allow on forcing marraige on women and that my mom is a working devoted Muslim who is a doctor btw.
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The culture is very much engrained in the religion.

Would calling it a marriage of convenience be better? Its still not a marriage of love, which is the best way, surely.
 
LeChuck said:
We're going back to Wafa Sultan, the Alawi.

@Momochiru - forced marriage is forbidden. I watched the video, and undoubtedly, it is a sad story, but blaming that on religion, as opposed to culture and tribal mentality seen in Arab countries is where she went wrong. It happens in Pakistan, India, and other countries, and it is a facet of culture / tradition as opposed to religion.
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Well Pagan Arabs didn't especially believe in Marriage. So it certainly didn't come from their culture. This practice seems to appear after the three major religions each had their own hold on the middle east.
 
UnitedinRed said:
The culture is very much engrained in the religion.

Would calling it a marriage of convenience be better? Its still not a marriage of love, which is the best way, surely.
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It's completely cultural, my parents come from well educated families and the fell in love and got married, I fell in love with my gf and I'm going to marry her.
 
syrian_scholes said:
It's completely cultural, my parents come from well educated families and the fell in love and got married, I fell in love with my gf and I'm going to marry her.
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Who's culture? Certainly not the Arab culture that predates Islam. They had a thing for prostitution and had little interest in marriage.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Who's culture? Certainly not the Arab culture that predates Islam. They had a thing for prostitution and had little interest in marriage.
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It became cultural after Islam because uneducated men use their power to do as they please, as Lechuck said it happens in India too but it's only talked about when Muslims do it.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Eh? If the Quran forbids defaming other religions, how do you explain Dhimmi? Who were deemed lesser because of their faith. They were only granted this status and not subject to genocide because they in fact followed the same religion at its roots. They were considered people of the book.

The status of the Dhimmis in Muslim lands is very interesting. Another that on one hand is denied because of its negative implications on Islam but has a very different story from those considered Dhimmi.
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This is ignorant, and factually incorrect.

Dhimmis were protected minorities, and had equal rights when it came to law, property, contracts etc. In fact, dhimmis were granted a huge deal of autonomy and were allowed to self govern according to their own rights / religions and weren't castigated in the wider state. Many Jewish men held high positions in the Ottoman's cabinet is just one example. And it wasn't reserved for Christians / Jews. When Islam came to the subcontinent, Islamic and Hindu (and Buddhists) people flourished side by side. If anything it was the Hindus at the time that would look down on Muslims as lower caste members of societies. The Mughal emperor, Akbar, is held in high esteem by both Muslims and Hindus alike, and the land was under an Islamic rule at the time.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Can I ask, to those of us who are Muslims. Is Islam perfect?
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You're asking completely biased people, that's not proving a point, of course for me Islam is perfect, it calls for justice and making people equal, my sister wears hijab and lives in the US and she's been abused many times because of it which proves there are idiots from each religions, what isn't perfect are people who practice it especially now.
 
LeChuck said:
This is ignorant, and factually incorrect.

Dhimmis were protected minorities, and had equal rights when it came to law, property, contracts etc. In fact, dhimmis were granted a huge deal of autonomy and were allowed to self govern according to their own rights / religions and weren't castigated in the wider state. Many Jewish men held high positions in the Ottoman's cabinet is just one example. And it wasn't reserved for Christians / Jews. When Islam came to the subcontinent, Islamic and Hindu (and Buddhists) people flourished side by side. If anything it was the Hindus at the time that would look down on Muslims as lower caste members of societies. The Mughal emperor, Akbar, is held in high esteem by both Muslims and Hindus alike, and the land was under an Islamic rule at the time.
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This is very much the view from within Islam. Its hardly going to be fair and just, is it? Let's be honest.

Google The Dhimmis - Life of a Jew in Muslin Lands. Its a short film on the subject without bias to any religion.

Gives you a look from the Jewish side. While it does state that it wasn't always bad, it very much relied upon whomever was in charge.

Can you honestly say that any form of second class citizenship is acceptable? Doesn't matter how they are treated, they are deemed inferior than you. Not all Americans treated black people like second class citizens and some even thrived in such a world. It was a dark page of human history regardless.
 
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