How peaceful is Islam?

shivab said:
Did you conveniently ignore the rest of the post because it doesn't suit your rhetoric? This discussion is happening because of IS. So why are we beating around the bush. Let's talk about IS. Why has it been created do you know? Why has it suddenly risen out of nowhere and become so strong? Does Islam give them guns as well? Does the prophet come down and hand it to them? Go read about it and come back and tell me if its because of Islam or because of 20 other reasons which are more pertinent.
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I think you are mistaken. This thread is not about ISIS - it is about the fact that currently a very large percentage of the violence in the world is happening in the name of Islam. ISIS, Taliban, Al-Qeada, Boko Haram, Hamaz, Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad - these are probably the most prominent groups, but there are many others. Read the OP - radical Islamists are involved in 73% of the armed conflicts in the world and responsible for 98.6% of the victims of terrorist attacks.
Actually these stats are already outdated - since the Paris attacks there were another 12 terrorist attacks around the world, claiming the lives of another 96 innocent people, plus more than 268 injured - suicide bombings by Boko Haram in Nigeria, stabbing by ISIS followers in Marceille France, shooting and suicide bombing by Salafi movement follower in Bosnia, shooting and stabbing by Palestinians in Israel, hostage taking and shooting by Al-Mourabitoun in Mali, bombing of a mosque and suicide bombing by ISIS in Iraq, suicide bombing by Boko Haram in Cameroon, arson by NPA in the Philippines. 11 out of the 12 attacks were performed by radical Islamists. Only one attack was by radical Communist group and that particular attack didn't leave any dead or injured people. These are the stats only for the last week!
 
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Classical Mechanic said:
Do married Muslims have to abstain from sex during Ramadan?

I wouldn't class the consumption of food and water as coming from desire though, they are fundamental needs for survival.
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Only from sunrise to sunset they have to abstain from it.

Hunger humbles oneself.

When it comes to eat, one is more grateful for such a basic thing as a regular meal, which leads one to realise how easy / blessed their life really is. Considering there are kids in Syria eating grass and cats as they have no real food, and people asking if their fast will be accepted if they have no food to break it with, this really drives the point home.
 
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UnitedinRed said:
Nothing in the qaran is clear cut. It's not even in its chronological order and highly contradictive, so don't claim otherwise. You interpret it to be as you understand it. This doesn't make it clear cut.
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Yes it really is.

For a layman to read it, I can understand why it might not be, but that is also the whole point. One is meant to contemplate on it and research it further. With jihad specifically we have a clear cut definition from our Prophet (SAWS) so there is no ambiguity.

It's divided into Makkan and Medina surahs. The Makkan tend to be more shorter and direct, whereas the Medina one tend to be more legislative, and historical.
 
LeChuck said:
Yes it really is.

For a layman to read it, I can understand why it might not be, but that is also the whole point. One is meant to contemplate on it and research it further. With jihad specifically we have a clear cut definition from our Prophet (SAWS) so there is no ambiguity.

It's divided into Makkan and Medina surahs. The Makkan tend to be more shorter and direct, whereas the Medina one tend to be more legislative, and historical.
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The definition of Jihad is cause for huge current and historical debate. Both in and out of the Muslim world. A quick google, and that's all it was, reveals this to be the case. It also details confusion over the meaning by the followers. A poll by Gallop of Indonesian muslims for example suggested that the majority believed Jihad to involve fighting for ones religion/go. Military action, not an inner fight.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
 
Can you please read this to put in prespective why IS aren't comitted to Islamic laws?
"To support beheadings, the group cites the Quran as calling on Muslims to "strike the necks" of their enemies. But other clerics counter the verse means Muslim fighters should swiftly kill enemies in the heat of battle, and is not a call to execute captives. Moreover, IS ignores the next part of the verse, which says Muslims should set prisoners of war free as an act of charity or for ransom."
Actually the prisoners law also says prisoners should be let free if they teach a child how to read.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Why go back so far in time? Let's just go back roughly 70 years. How many Muslims were out killing in the name of Islam? Or let's go back to when Saddam was in power and the middle east wasn't a political clusterfeck?
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One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter .... out of interest, how many people have been killed because of Western policy in the same time frame?
 
Since the Islamic scholars are considered as the leaders of Islam now and those whose Fatwa should be followed by muslims, why have they all talked against ISIS and many came with a Fatwa against joining ISIS if Islam is such a violent relegion and the reason for ISIS?
 
Its really sad that Muslims have to defend this ISIS crap as if their faith had something to do with it. It would be a bit like Christians having to defend their religion because of Koran burning pastor Terry Jones. Nearly all religions get manipulated by various factions/cults etc. What this is all about is power.
 
Raoul said:
Its really sad that Muslims have to defend this ISIS crap as if their faith had something to do with it. It would be a bit like Christians having to defend their religion because of Koran burning pastor Terry Jones. Nearly all religions get manipulated by various factions/cults etc. What this is all about is power.
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Their faith doesn't. It's personal. Their religion does.
 
UnitedinRed said:
The definition of Jihad is cause for huge current and historical debate. Both in and out of the Muslim world. A quick google, and that's all it was, reveals this to be the case. It also details confusion over the meaning by the followers. A poll by Gallop of Indonesian muslims for example suggested that the majority believed Jihad to involve fighting for ones religion/go. Military action, not an inner fight.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad
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Any source that says Jihad Al-Nikah is a kind of jihad is a false source as there is no such thing in Islam, there are no different opinions on jihad, this claim is absurd, jihad has many strict rulse to be followed stated fully by Muhammad SAWS here is what Jihad is know to Sunni Muslims really is:
  • If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.
  • Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment.
WHAT JIHAD IS NOT
  • Jihad is not a violent concept.
  • Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.
  • Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.
  • Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications
Also in a Hadith Muhammad SAWS said that one asking for knowledge is a jihad, one defending family or his homeland is a jihad...
Also defend the faith against others means against someone who is killing muslims for the sake of being muslims.
 
Why are muslims even defending themselves in this thread ? Why give a feck what some tweeps in the west or anywhere else think ?
 
By the way I put those from the source as things I can validate as true from what I learnt in mosques and from Islamic scholars.
 
Raoul said:
Well since all religions are interpreted by individuals, then maybe the emphasis should be on the individuals not the religion.
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The guidelines are set out for then. In a very confusing and contradictory manner. That is the religion.

That's what people are questioning. Its difficult as every and all criticism of the Islamic religion is deemed a personal attack on every and all Muslims. When it quite clearly isnt.
 
UnitedinRed said:
The guidelines are set out for then. In a very confusing and contradictory manner. That is the religion.

That's what people are questioning. Its difficult as every and all criticism of the Islamic religion is deemed a personal attack on every and all Muslims. When it quite clearly isnt.
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As mentioned, irrespective of what is literally written in the texts, religion is innately interpretative. A more cogent discussion would center on how to better integrate people into societies, who might otherwise find themselves using religion as an excuse to vent their grievances.
 
syrian_scholes said:
Any source that says Jihad Al-Nikah is a kind of jihad is a false source as there is no such thing in Islam, there are no different opinions on jihad, this claim is absurd, jihad has many strict rulse to be followed stated fully by Muhammad SAWS here is what Jihad is know to Sunni Muslims really is:
  • If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.
  • Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment.
WHAT JIHAD IS NOT
  • Jihad is not a violent concept.
  • Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.
  • Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.
  • Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications
Also in a Hadith Muhammad SAWS said that one asking for knowledge is a jihad, one defending family or his homeland is a jihad...
Also defend the faith against others means against someone who is killing muslims for the sake of being muslims.
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Well that's all one big lie. Theres many opinions on Jihad. Many of which believe it to incite military conflict not personal conflict.

Its very much like those who claim Dhimmi status was a good thing.
 
VidaRed said:
Why are muslims even defending themselves in this thread ? Why give a feck what some tweeps in the west or anywhere else think ?
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Dialogue and discourse leads to understanding and tolerance. If someone does not understand you it's probably better in the long run to educate them than ignore them.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Was Hitler a christian? And I am pretty sure some pretty massive reforms took place in Europe after his demise.

And some terrorism is localised to a particular region. Some is global. How many terrorist attacks are currently being commited by Hindus and Christians? It doesn't excuse it of course, or any form of terrorism but its hardly a global issue.
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Yes. There are a lot of quotes from his book and speeches when he mentions himself to be a Christian, to do things in the name of Almighty God etc.
 
Raoul said:
As mentioned, irrespective of what is literally written in the texts, religion is innately interpretative. A more cogent discussion would center on how to better integrate people into societies, who might otherwise find themselves using religion as an excuse to vent their grievances.
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Perhaps the religious texts should not be open to interpretation. Would have saved a whole lot of bother.
 
Bestie07 said:
He is right though, muslims have no reason to defend themselves, why should they? It's like saying every United fan should defend the actions of idiots who sing the Hillsborough songs.
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No, he's wrong.

Shutting down debate, regardless of how heated is wrong. Youre preventing progress. Stop.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Well that's all one big lie. Theres many opinions on Jihad. Many of which believe it to incite military conflict not personal conflict.

Its very much like those who claim Dhimmi status was a good thing.
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That is not a lie, don't disrespect me by saying I'm lying, I have no need to change your view on islam, sorry if me stating facts got in the face of the wrongful things you've been spouting, it's not like I've got education through mosques and practice on the matter.
 
Revan said:
Yes. There are a lot of quotes from his book and speeches when he mentions himself to be a Christian, to do things in the name of Almighty God etc.
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Was he really? He wasn't. He believed in a god so to speak and was raised a catholic but he was anything but christian.

Hitler despised the catholic church. Only due to convenience did he rarely if ever express this publically.

Most Germans were Christian though.
 
Raoul said:
I'd rather they be completely open to interpretation than be taken literally. That would be far more dangerous imo.
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Depends on the content. If it was written in a comprehendable fashion, in some sort of order then it may not be such an issue.
 
syrian_scholes said:
Any source that says Jihad Al-Nikah is a kind of jihad is a false source as there is no such thing in Islam, there are no different opinions on jihad, this claim is absurd, jihad has many strict rulse to be followed stated fully by Muhammad SAWS here is what Jihad is know to Sunni Muslims really is:
  • If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.
  • Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment.
WHAT JIHAD IS NOT
  • Jihad is not a violent concept.
  • Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.
  • Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.
  • Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications
Also in a Hadith Muhammad SAWS said that one asking for knowledge is a jihad, one defending family or his homeland is a jihad...
Also defend the faith against others means against someone who is killing muslims for the sake of being muslims.
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You really believe what you post?

Let's look a bit into it:

Jihad is not a violent concept
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Well, if you interpret Jihad as a personal war on becoming a better person, then sure. If you interpret it as real war against other people (be it attacking or defensive) then surely it is a violent concept.
Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam
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You mean bar the wars caused by Mohammed, and then continued by Abu-Bekr, Umar, Uthmann and Ali. And by the other Arab caliphs up to Saladin. Or by Ottomans. Well, wait, it is like in the entire history (and especially at the time when Arabs were strong) military action in the name of Islam was omnipresent.

Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications
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Completely agree here. However, Crusades (and Inquisition) were a few centuries ago, while many Muslim groups are currently making religious wars. The West has moved from it (although wars are still present, but not religious), many Islamic groups haven't.

Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims
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Quran has more contradiction that GOP member speeches. Jews might be mentioned as (misguided) people of the book in one verse, and then descendents of apes and pigs in some other verse.

However, there is some merit on your post. Uthman for example, apparently allowed Jews to be returned in their homeland, centuries after they were exciled from Roman Empires.
 
syrian_scholes said:
That is not a lie, don't disrespect me by saying I'm lying, I have no need to change your view on islam, sorry if me stating facts got in the face of the wrongful things you've been spouting, it's not like I've got education through mosques and practice on the matter.
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No disrespect but if you genuinely think there's no difference of opinion on the word Jihad from within Muslim communities, this conversation is futile. You're clearly biased towards Islam (as you see it)
 
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UnitedinRed said:
Was he really? He wasn't. He believed in a god so to speak and was raised a catholic but he was anything but christian.

Hitler despised the catholic church. Only due to convenience did he rarely if ever express this publically.

Most Germans were Christian though.
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A lot of Christians might despise the Catholic Church, but they are still Christians.

Here is a long list of religious quotes from Hitler:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/23/list-of-hitler-quotes-he-was-q/

Certainly, we can play the card that he isn't Christian despite those quotes, but that is similar to those who say that IS aren't Muslims. On the other side, I fully acknowledge that Christianity hasn't been the most important motivation to Hitler.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Depends on the content. If it was written in a comprehendable fashion, in some sort of order then it may not be such an issue.
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I actually don't believe it's that important. If you create the conditions for economic opportunity and a better quality of life, nearly all the problems we see today in terms of terrorism will be eliminated. Religion here, is merely an excuse to achieve power, much as nationalism, tribalism, etc have been in the past.
 
syrian_scholes said:
By the way I put those from the source as things I can validate as true from what I learnt in mosques and from Islamic scholars.
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Your post is a good one and seems pretty unambiguous to me. So ... what's up with the people who interpret it so very differently? Who are these violent, angry young Muslims who think their interpretation of their religion is right? Why are they so sure, despite scholars and leaders telling them that they've got it very wrong?

In a way, it's like mainstream Christianity v Westboro Baptists. We all know that what Westboro do is wrong, and twisted - but they still think they are right, and they call themselves Christians. Of course, they don't pose a threat to the world, as they are a small (but vocal) community who largely seem to rely on completely inappropriate demonstrations to get their 'message' across. But nevertheless, they think everyone else is wrong, and they don't care if they are cast out from society because of what they believe.

From the limited amount I know, mainstream Muslims share a lot of beliefs with Christians - I had a colleague who was very devout, and she told me a lot about the Muslim faith and the links between her religion and mine. I've had close working relationships with several practising Muslims, and I never felt that they were anything but respectful towards other people's faiths. I looked after hundreds of Muslim women when I was a midwife, and I was always (without exception) welcomed into their homes and offered hospitality. I always felt there were more similarities between us than differences.
 
Revan said:
A lot of Christians might despise the Catholic Church, but they are still Christians.

Here is a long list of religious quotes from Hitler:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/23/list-of-hitler-quotes-he-was-q/

Certainly, we can play the card that he isn't Christian despite those quotes, but that is similar to those who say that IS aren't Muslims. On the other side, I fully acknowledge that Christianity hasn't been the most important motivation to Hitler.
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Hitler was raised a catholic so of course had knowledge of the faith. No doubt he picked up many quotes along the way and like many politicians used then as part of his propaganda.
 
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Penna said:
Your post is a good one and seems pretty unambiguous to me. So ... what's up with the people who interpret it so very differently? Who are these violent, angry young Muslims who think their interpretation of their religion is right? Why are they so sure, despite scholars and leaders telling them that they've got it very wrong?

In a way, it's like mainstream Christianity v Westboro Baptists. We all know that what Westboro do is wrong, and twisted - but they still think they are right, and they call themselves Christians. Of course, they don't pose a threat to the world, as they are a small (but vocal) community who largely seem to rely on completely inappropriate demonstrations to get their 'message' across. But nevertheless, they think everyone else is wrong, and they don't care if they are cast out from society because of what they believe.

From the limited amount I know, mainstream Muslims share a lot of beliefs with Christians - I had a colleague who was very devout, and she told me a lot about the Muslim faith and the links between her religion and mine. I've had close working relationships with several practising Muslims, and I never felt that they were anything but respectful towards other people's faiths. I looked after hundreds of Muslim women when I was a midwife, and I was always (without exception) welcomed into their homes and offered hospitality. I always felt there were more similarities between us than differences.
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Both Muslims and Christians are just reformed Jews, after all. Both 'stole' their religions from Judaism, after all. And changed it to be used as a political weapon in their coutries (Arabia and Roman Empire).
UnitedinRed said:
Hitler was raised a catholic so of course had knowledge of the faith. No doubt he picked up many quotes along the way and like many politicians used then as part of his propaganda.
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Still, he was a Christian, and from his quotes it looks that he believed in God and the Bible.

I never said that it is comparable with IS, when religion is the biggest motivation. To Hitler, nationalism was the primary motivation. He was still Christian though, and just because he was evil, doesn't mean that we can excommunicate him.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Was he really? He wasn't. He believed in a god so to speak and was raised a catholic but he was anything but christian.

Hitler despised the catholic church. Only due to convenience did he rarely if ever express this publically.

Most Germans were Christian though.
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I think most scholars agree that he was religious in his early years, but probably not at all at the end. He however liked to use religion to legitimize some of his views. He even tried to form a new Christian church in the 30s, that would align closely with his Arian supremacy ideology, but eventually gave up on the idea.
 
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