But this thread is about Islam. Its bad even if it is done in the name of Christianity and if it is done, People would still crticise the lunatics who call death penalty for blasphemy
How peaceful is Islam?
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But this thread is about Islam. Its bad even if it is done in the name of Christianity and if it is done, People would still crticise the lunatics who call death penalty for blasphemy
Silva
Full Member
Sure, but most churches have reformed beyond that. If enough Mosques did the same we wouldn't be having this conversation.I define "religion" as what is written in holy books and "religious people" as those who follow it. Going by that definition, blasphemy is pretty much gets the same treatment in bible and quran i.e. no difference in 'religion'. It's the religious people who react differently to similar texts.
I'm just pointing out that it was not something that is unique to Islam.
And I'm sure we've had threads on here criticising the churches involvement in implementing the death penalty for homosexuality in Africa. Bringing in the failings of another ideology in these threads is pointless because it comes across as an attempt to justify it, when there's really no justification. We should be able to call Mo all sorts of things without fearing the death penalty. He's just an old time charlatan after all.
Sure, but most churches have reformed beyond that. If enough Mosques did the same we wouldn't be having this conversation.
And I'm sure we've had threads on here criticising the churches involvement in implementing the death penalty for homosexuality in Africa. Bringing in the failings of another ideology in these threads is pointless because it comes across as an attempt to justify it, when there's really no justification. We should be able to call Mo all sorts of things without fearing the death penalty. He's just an old time charlatan after all.
Hate speech!!! Death to You!!!!!
Edgar Allan Pillow
Ero-Sennin
But this thread is about Islam. Its bad even if it is done in the name of Christianity and if it is done, People would still crticise the lunatics who call death penalty for blasphemy
Yeah, but it's never a standalone statement is it? How peaceful is Islam....compared to other religions is the obvious inference. And if you have something in Islam as a religion that is not there in other religions we can take a crack at seeing whether one is more or less peaceful than the other. Just saying OMG, Islam wants to kill blasphemers when other religions also propagate the same kinda dilutes the big picture.
Sure, but most churches have reformed beyond that. If enough Mosques did the same we wouldn't be having this conversation.
And I'm sure we've had threads on here criticising the churches involvement in implementing the death penalty for homosexuality in Africa. Bringing in the failings of another ideology in these threads is pointless because it comes across as an attempt to justify it, when there's really no justification. We should be able to call Mo all sorts of things without fearing the death penalty. He's just an old time charlatan after all.
My point being nothing much has changed in the religions in past 100 years or so. Bible and Quran are pretty much the same they were during middle ages and before. When Christianity was burning pagans, Islam was doing quite peacefully. The only thing that has changed from then to now is people. The question to be asked is not "How peaceful is Islam?" but rather "What has changed to cause an increase of radicals in Islam?" and the answer is certainly not religion.
Silva
Full Member
What does another religion's failing have to do with it? Again, we're not disputing the bibles barbarism but that doesn't justify the korans barbarism. Saying Communism sucked isn't a justification for Capitalism sucking. It's one hell of a cop out. And no one doubts the political motivations of religious leaders, but why should we pretend Islam is a peaceful religion when they're killing people for pointing out Mo's failings as a human being? (and in many cases, killing people for even less).My point being nothing much has changed in the religions in past 100 years or so. Bible and Quran are pretty much the same they were during middle ages and before. When Christianity was burning pagans, Islam was doing quite peacefully. The only thing that has changed from then to now is people. The question to be asked is not "How peaceful is Islam?" but rather "What has changed to cause an increase of radicals in Islam?" and the answer is certainly not religion.
If you want to say Islam is peaceful, feel free to make the case. But justifying it with the churches failings is a bullshit argument.
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Yeah, but it's never a standalone statement is it? How peaceful is Islam....compared to other religions is the obvious inference. And if you have something in Islam as a religion that is not there in other religions we can take a crack at seeing whether one is more or less peaceful than the other. Just saying OMG, Islam wants to kill blasphemers when other religions also propagate the same kinda dilutes the big picture.
You are either on a WUM or cannot understand the basic logical fallacies you are commiting even after it has been pointed out so many times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Edgar Allan Pillow
Ero-Sennin
You are either on a WUM or cannot understand the basic logical fallacies you are commiting even after it has been pointed out so many times.
You either haven't read or understood my posts. In simpler terms, I believe 'How peaceful is Islam" should be a comparative question and not a standalone one. Seeing that there is no standard definition of 'peaceful' looking at it on a standalone basis will only reinforce the bias you may already have. I don't disagree with the context of the thread, just that it is being look at from a wrong angle.
What does another religion's failing have to do with it?
See point above on standalone vs comparative.
Silva
Full Member
The first that comes on google is the standard definition. It's a pretty well understood word.You either haven't read or understood my posts. In simpler terms, I believe 'How peaceful is Islam" should be a comparative question and not a standalone one. Seeing that there is no standard definition of 'peaceful' looking at it on a standalone basis will only reinforce the bias you may already have. I don't disagree with the context of the thread, just that it is being look at from a wrong angle.
See point above on standalone vs comparative.
peaceful
ˈpiːsfʊl,-f(ə)l/
adjective
- 1.
free from disturbance; tranquil.
"his peaceful mood vanished"
synonyms: tranquil, calm, restful, pleasant, quiet, still, relaxing, soothing, sleepy,silent, soundless, hushed, noiseless, undisturbed, untroubled, private,secluded, solitary, isolated, free from disturbance/interruption/interference More
- 2.
not involving war or violence.
"a soldier was shot at an otherwise peaceful demonstration"
synonyms: harmonious, at peace, strife-free, peaceable, on good terms, amicable,friendly, cordial, non-violent, unwarlike; More
The question to be asked is not "How peaceful is Islam?" but rather "What has changed to cause an increase of radicals in Islam?" and the answer is certainly not religion.
I think this is the more important question too. Well said.
Edgar Allan Pillow
Ero-Sennin
The first that comes on google is the standard definition. It's a pretty well understood word.
You have a certain talent for responding to words whilst ignoring the context. So now you have a definition. I still don't see the point of rating a particular religion when majority of all religions are going to have the same defects! If the argument is all religions are not peaceful, then we could have said that in the religion thread. This thread infers that Islam is somehow less peaceful than other religions and I'm contesting that.
Silva
Full Member
It is less peaceful than other religions. The rest have largely reformed beyond the current version of Islam. There are far fewer examples of other religions being used as motivation to war in the last century or so. Even outside warzones it's worse. See the reaction to Salman Rushdie for his blasphemy vs. the reaction to Stewart Lee for his blasphemy.You have a certain talent for responding to words whilst ignoring the context. So now you have a definition. I still don't see the point of rating a particular religion when majority of all religions are going to have the same defects! If the argument is all religions are not peaceful, then we could have said that in the religion thread. This thread infers that Islam is somehow less peaceful than other religions and I'm contesting that.
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The question to be asked is not "How peaceful is Islam?" but rather "What has changed to cause an increase of radicals in Islam?" and the answer is certainly not religion.
On the rest of this argument I generally agree with @Silva but this is a great line, something to think about.
My point being nothing much has changed in the religions in past 100 years or so. Bible and Quran are pretty much the same they were during middle ages and before. When Christianity was burning pagans, Islam was doing quite peacefully. The only thing that has changed from then to now is people. The question to be asked is not "How peaceful is Islam?" but rather "What has changed to cause an increase of radicals in Islam?" and the answer is certainly not religion.
That is an interesting question and probably deserves a thread on its own. That doesn't mean what we are discusing in the current context is wrong.
After all, The link I posted is not about the "radicals" in Islam. Do you think, 100,000 people calling death for blasphemy is to do with Radicalisation. They use quran as a justification in the same way pro-life groups use bible as their justification.
RedTiger
Half mast
Good point EAP.Yeah, but it's never a standalone statement is it? How peaceful is Islam....compared to other religions is the obvious inference. And if you have something in Islam as a religion that is not there in other religions we can take a crack at seeing whether one is more or less peaceful than the other. Just saying OMG, Islam wants to kill blasphemers when other religions also propagate the same kinda dilutes the big picture.
RedTiger
Half mast
I meant this one EAP, sorry.My point being nothing much has changed in the religions in past 100 years or so. Bible and Quran are pretty much the same they were during middle ages and before. When Christianity was burning pagans, Islam was doing quite peacefully. The only thing that has changed from then to now is people. The question to be asked is not "How peaceful is Islam?" but rather "What has changed to cause an increase of radicals in Islam?" and the answer is certainly not religion.
Momochiru
Full Member
I disagree. You are assuming that people must follow a religion, and that leads you to compare the peacefulness of one religion to another and than conclude that because all of them are not very peaceful, then there is no point to question Islam. However following a religion is not a mandatory requirement, as plenty of atheists have shown. If the question was "How healthy is vegetarianism?", then you could've been excused to compare the health benefits of being vegetarian vs eating meat. After all, eating food is a basic necessity and there are just so many types of foods, but that's not the case with religion.Yeah, but it's never a standalone statement is it? How peaceful is Islam....compared to other religions is the obvious inference. And if you have something in Islam as a religion that is not there in other religions we can take a crack at seeing whether one is more or less peaceful than the other. Just saying OMG, Islam wants to kill blasphemers when other religions also propagate the same kinda dilutes the big picture.
If you really must make a comparison, than think of the question in this way: "Is there anything in Islam that would cause an avid follower to become more or less peaceful, compared to the same person if he/she didn't care about Islam?"
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Edgar Allan Pillow
Ero-Sennin
I disagree. You are assuming that people must follow a religion, and that leads you to compare the peacefulness of one religion to another and than conclude that because all of them are not very peaceful, then there is no point to question Islam. However following a religion is not a mandatory requirement, as plenty of atheists have shown. If the question was "How healthy is vegetarianism?", then you could've been excused to compare the health benefits of being vegetarian vs eating meat. After all, eating food is a basic necessity and there are just so many types of foods, but that's not the case with religion.
If you really must make a comparison, than think of the question in this way: "Is there anything in Islam that would cause an avid follower to become more or less peaceful, compared to the same person if he/she didn't care about Islam?"
Going by your own example, "How healthy us vegetarianism" and then someone starts talking about dieting, then it's becomes a totally different subject.
Momochiru
Full Member
Exactly! So, let's stick with Islam on this thread. If you want to discuss all the other religions, there is the Religion thread.Going by your own example, "How healthy us vegetarianism" and then someone starts talking about dieting, then it's becomes a totally different subject.
How about those 100,000 protesters. Peaceful or not?
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