How peaceful is Islam?

UnitedinRed said:
Who's culture? Certainly not the Arab culture that predates Islam. They had a thing for prostitution and had little interest in marriage.
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Forced marriages have their roots in tribal factions / mentalities, and it's permeated in every culture, even the West. Tribes would often want to keep the women 'in the family' so to speak and would marry them off to a cousin so that the wealth would also stay within the family. This is why the genetic make up of civilisation has only really been diversified in the last couple of centuries, as these tribal mentalities have always kept themselves to one another. You can see it in Mayan / Aztec / Native American culture as well.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
The simple point is they choose people who are either children which can be fed with anything or people so far of religion that anything told to them will be treated as gospel and they would believe it.
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No, that's not a simple point. You keep repeating this over and over but it's not true.
I just gave you several examples. Did you look into them?
 
syrian_scholes said:
You're asking completely biased people, that's not proving a point, of course for me Islam is perfect, it calls for justice and making people equal, my sister wears hijab and lives in the US and she's been abused many times because of it which proves there are idiots from each religions, what isn't perfect are people who practice it especially now.
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That's the issue then and why you and others are incapable of accepting criticism. Every single one has been dismissed as lies, a lack of understanding or not representative of Islam. Which as you have pointed out is a biased opinion.
 
UnitedinRed said:
That's the issue then and why you and others are incapable of accepting criticism. Every single one has been dismissed as lies, a lack of understanding or not representative of Islam. Which as you have pointed out is a biased opinion.
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We've all countered with facts and I've told you examples from my own family yet you chose to ignore what proved your point actually wrong, criticism is one thing but calling Muslims violent because of the doings of extremists is on a whole different level.
 
LeChuck said:
Forced marriages have their roots in tribal factions / mentalities, and it's permeated in every culture, even the West. Tribes would often want to keep the women 'in the family' so to speak and would marry them off to a cousin so that the wealth would also stay within the family. This is why the genetic make up of civilisation has only really been diversified in the last couple of centuries, as these tribal mentalities have always kept themselves to one another. You can see it in Mayan / Aztec / Native American culture as well.
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Culture under religion is generally intertwined though, would you not say. Both have impacts on the other.
 
Momochiru said:
How about the right of free movement? Can a women walk freely in Saudi Arabia if she is not accompanied by a male family member?
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How about every other Muslim country? How about my country as an example? Or UAE? or Jordan? Or Palestine? Iraq? Turkey? Can you find an example other than Saudi?
 
syrian_scholes said:
We've all countered with facts and I've told you examples from my own family yet you chose to ignore what proved your point actually wrong, criticism is one thing but calling Muslims violent because of the doings of extremists is on a whole different level.
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Calling Islam violent is what is happening. Not the followers (Muslims).

You have to separate the two and look objectionally. Which as you pointed out, isn't so easy for a Muslim. Criticism of Islam is not criticism of Muslims.
 
Regarding the issue of jihad again, here are three examples of historically well respected Muslims interpreting it as sanctioning offensive war against non-Muslims.

First Ibn Kathir, whose commentary (tafsir) on the Qur'an is regarded as one of the most authoritative by Sunni Muslims. An English translation is available to browse here - http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php

Here's what he says about the famous Surah 9:29, which reads:

"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Since no translation of the Qur'an into English can be regarded as 100% accurate, here is the translation from the copy I own by Muhammad Marmaduke Pickhall:

"Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah has forbidden by his messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low."

Ibn Kathir interprets this verse in the following way:

"Therefore, when People of the Scriptures disbelieved in Muhammad , they had no beneficial faith in any Messenger or what the Messengers brought. Rather, they followed their religions because this conformed with their ideas, lusts and the ways of their forefathers, not because they are Allah's Law and religion. Had they been true believers in their religions, that faith would have directed them to believe in Muhammad , because all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad's advent and commanded them to obey and follow him. Yet when he was sent, they disbelieved in him, even though he is the mightiest of all Messengers. Therefore, they do not follow the religion of earlier Prophets because these religions came from Allah, but because these suit their desires and lusts. Therefore, their claimed faith in an earlier Prophet will not benefit them because they disbelieved in the master, the mightiest, the last and most perfect of all Prophets .

Hence Allah's statement "Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture." This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination. The Messenger sent his intent to various Arab areas around Al-Madinah to gather forces, and he collected an army of thirty thousand. Some people from Al-Madinah and some hypocrites, in and around it, lagged behind, for that year was a year of drought and intense heat. The Messenger of Allah marched, heading towards Ash-Sham to fight the Romans until he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to its water resources. He then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Al-Madinah because it was a hard year and the people were weak, as we will mention, Allah willing."
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Ibn Kathir goes on to say that the dhimma pact made by the Caliph 'Umar with the Christians of Syria was designed to ensure "their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace."

Next, al-Mawardi, a scholar whose work "The Ordinances of Government" (available for download here - https://archive.org/details/TheOrdinancesOfGovernment-Al-ahkamAs-sultaniyyahByAbuAl-hasanAliIbn) is regarded as one of the most authoritative statements of Islamic political theory. Al-Mawardi describes one of the prescribed duties of the caliph to be to "make jihad against those who resist Islam after having been called to it until they submit or accept to live as a protected dhimmi-community - so that Allah's rights, may He be exalted, 'be made uppermost above all [other] religion' (Qur'an 9: 33)"

Finally, Saʿd ibn Abī Waqqās, a companion (ṣaḥābī) of Muhammad who led the Islamic conquest of Persia. According to the great medieval Muslim historian al-Tabari (author of his own authoritative tafsir), Saʿd' gave the following speech to his troops before battle (it's in vol. 12 in the translation by Yohanan Friedmann):

"This land is your inheritance and the promise of your Lord. God permitted you to take possession of it three years ago. You have been tasting it and eating from it, and you have been killing its people, collecting taxes from them, and taking them into captivity...You are Arab chiefs and notables, the elect of every tribe, and the pride of those who are behind you. If you renounce this world and aspire for the hereafter, God will give you both this world and the hereafter."

These are the type of traditions modern-day jihadists draw upon to justify their actions and agendas. However, that is not to say that these traditions are the primary reason, or the reason at all, why modern-day jihadists decide to fight in the first place. There are equally many other traditions exhorting believers to an alternative, peaceful understanding of jihad. Depending on a wide range of circumstances, different traditions and interpretations will appeal at different times.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Calling Islam violent is what is happening. Not the followers (Muslims).

You have to separate the two and look objectionally. Which as you pointed out, isn't so easy for a Muslim. Criticism of Islam is not criticism of Muslims.
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But it's not really, you've ignored multiple facts that shows it not to be violent, how is the right for defending ones self is violent when being attacked? Should I die if attacked just so you can say my religion is so peaceful?
 
syrian_scholes said:
You're asking completely biased people, that's not proving a point, of course for me Islam is perfect, it calls for justice and making people equal, my sister wears hijab and lives in the US and she's been abused many times because of it which proves there are idiots from each religions, what isn't perfect are people who practice it especially now.
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She lives in the USA and wearing a hijab is her choice, however in many countries this wouldn't be her choice - it would be mandatory and her not wearing it might get her punished pretty severely. That's another basic human right, by the way - the right to choose what to wear.
 
syrian_scholes said:
But it's not really, you've ignored multiple facts that shows it not to be violent, how is the right for defending ones self is violent when being attacked? Should I die if attacked just so you can say my religion is so peaceful?
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Well, technically, using the very definition of peace, yes.....

I wouldn't expect anyone too, because we are all human and out fight or flight response would kick in.
 
Momochiru said:
She lives in the USA and wearing a hijab is her choice, however in many countries this wouldn't be her choice - it would be mandatory and her not wearing it might get her punished pretty severely. That's another basic human right, by the way - the right to choose what to wear.
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You ignored all my posts yet you conveniently replied to the one with the word hijab in it, go figure.
 
MJJ said:
The TV series, and yes women can walk around without a male accompanying them in pakistan.
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Never seen it.

I was referring to more than just freedom of movement. Freedom of education for example.
 
Momochiru said:
I was away for half an hour and when I came back I replied on the first post I saw, it's not because I'm avoiding the rest. What was the point of the rest of your post, that there are idiots everywhere? Yes, I agree with that.
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I didn't mean this post, I mean the post were I say that my Mom works as a doctor in a Muslim country and that her and my dad fell in love before getting married, the one where I say that Muhammad SAWS forbid forced marriage?
 
UnitedinRed said:
Never seen it.

I was referring to more than just freedom of movement. Freedom of education for example.
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Islam urges people to get knowledge and education, Muhammad SAWS said: "The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than a blood of a martyr"
Also Aisha RA used to give lessons to people in mosques, actually if you read the article about women rights in Islam you would've already seen that Islam urges women towards education.
 
syrian_scholes said:
I don't know about the rest of the Gulf but in Syria it's not a restriction.
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The restrictions on women, which differ greatly seem to occur more in Islamic nations which are not currently experiencing conflict. Iraq, Syria, Palestine for example are considered pretty relaxed regarding women. Nations like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc are quite strict.

At least that's then impression.
 
We find replacement for oil and suddenly Islam is not an issue, we from West are guilt in supporting the elite from those countries for cheap oil and the elite's are very happy to make sure their population stays ignorant and religion=power.
 
UnitedinRed said:
The restrictions on women, which differ greatly seem to occur more in Islamic nations which are not currently experiencing conflict. Iraq, Syria, Palestine for example are considered pretty relaxed regarding women. Nations like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc are quite strict.

At least that's then impression.
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It's been like that in Syria then the 50s from what I know so it isn't the reason for the conflict if that's what you're trying to say.
 
syrian_scholes said:
Islam urges people to get knowledge and education, Muhammad SAWS said: "The ink of a scholar is worth a thousand times more than a blood of a martyr"
Also Aisha RA used to give lessons to people in mosques, actually if you read the article about women rights in Islam you would've already seen that Islam urges women towards education.
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Over 60% of Pakistani women are illiterate. It ranks 115th in terms of women's rights.
 
syrian_scholes said:
I didn't mean this post, I mean the post were I say that my Mom works as a doctor in a Muslim country and that her and my dad fell in love before getting married, the one where I say that Muhammad SAWS forbid forced marriage?
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That's good for them. I'm aware that Syria used to be quite progressive, especially in the bigger cities. With the war and ISIS, I'm afraid things will change for the worse. I have experience with Turkey and in my opinion it is a progressive Muslim country too. If all Muslim countries were like that things would be much better, however it looks to me that there is a higher chance of the progressive Muslim countries to become more conservative and fundamental than the other way around.
 
As a person who've lived in a conservative society and in the West, some of the objections of 'Women not able to drive in Saudi Arabia', 'Women having to wear a hijab' etc are a bit overblown. I agree that it doesn't look good compared the Western societies, but it is not reason enough for a 'Islam is a bad idea' tirade by Bill Maher and company.
 
Momochiru said:
That's good for them. I'm aware that Syria used to be quite progressive, especially in the bigger cities. With the war and ISIS, I'm afraid things will change for the worse. I have experience with Turkey and in my opinion it is a progressive Muslim country too. If all Muslim countries were like that things would be much better, however it looks to me that there is a higher chance of the progressive Muslim countries to become more conservative and fundamental than the other way around.
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Indeed. As we can see happening right now.
 
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