We had 5 senior centrebacks.
Ferdinand, Vidic, Brown, Evans, Oshea.
We had a few youngsters like Cathcart and Chester also, not sure if they were injured too or they were on loan.
How bad have our injuries really been this season?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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We had 5 senior centrebacks.
Ferdinand, Vidic, Brown, Evans, Oshea.
We had a few youngsters like Cathcart and Chester also, not sure if they were injured too or they were on loan.
If by taking aim you mean me saying it's highly unlikely a manager will ever blame their own training methods for injuries (and here's the important bit) even if they know/suspect they are at fault.
Then yes I am saying (hypothetically) they will always look out for themselves.
No it doesn't if you read my posts mate, because I am not actually blaming any managers training methods for causing injuries.
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I have read your posts. I’ve read and understood them.
From September
Ok you won't accept when I tell you that you've misinterpreted my post, bit rude but common on here recently.
Please quote the part of one of my posts where I've blamed managers or a manager for causing inuries? And also please explain exactly how I am blaming them.
I wait with bated breath.
Martial and Varane are the ones that come to mind, Rashford another one of late.
Martial probably but Varane has only played under Solskjaer and Ten Hag really and he's just genuinely injury prone.
Rashford has played through some pretty serious arm and back injuries for the club.
How about understand that the way of playing on the pitch and on training is causing so much injuries? He should just nip it in the bud earlier. He should until the transfer window and then get more suitable players who can handle the intensity.
This isn’t entirely in defence of ETH, as I believe his stubbornness tactically will ultimately get him sacked, but people simply can’t dismiss the injury record this season. Questions need to be raised as to WHY it’s as bad as it is, but the fact remains it’s an unprecedented level of player absence.
A few years ago when Van Dijk and Gomez got injured, Liverpool had a spell with Fabinho at the back, breaking up their first choice midfield, and they simply weren’t the same outfit. Now that was with TWO injuries.
This squad, thin enough as it is, currently has 5 CBs and a total of 7 defenders on the shelf - tell me any team that survives that kind of decimation? And it’s not been for a game or two, these players have been out for weeks and months respectively. So look at how we line up:
GK - Onana - first choice
RB - Dalot - first choice
CB - Casemiro - our first choice DM and 6th choice CB
CB - Evans - 5th choice CB and only fit natural CB
LB - AWB - Both natural LBs out injured and decided Dalot is better suited staying on the right
CM - Mainoo - First choice
CM - Eriksen - Casemiro would be here, except he’s covering CB, so we need our back-up CM, McT, BUT HE’S OUT TOO!
So the foundation from which we’ve had to ‘build’ includes a 5th and 6th choice CB ‘options’ a RB playing LB as both LBs are injured, and 3rd choice CM playing because the first choice is covering CB and the second choice is ALSO injured.
We've covered individual games with lots of injuries before, but I can never in my lifetime remember when it’s been as bad as this.
A few years ago when Van Dijk and Gomez got injured, Liverpool had a spell with Fabinho at the back, breaking up their first choice midfield, and they simply weren’t the same outfit. Now that was with TWO injuries.
This squad, thin enough as it is, currently has 5 CBs and a total of 7 defenders on the shelf - tell me any team that survives that kind of decimation? And it’s not been for a game or two, these players have been out for weeks and months respectively. So look at how we line up:
GK - Onana - first choice
RB - Dalot - first choice
CB - Casemiro - our first choice DM and 6th choice CB
CB - Evans - 5th choice CB and only fit natural CB
LB - AWB - Both natural LBs out injured and decided Dalot is better suited staying on the right
CM - Mainoo - First choice
CM - Eriksen - Casemiro would be here, except he’s covering CB, so we need our back-up CM, McT, BUT HE’S OUT TOO!
So the foundation from which we’ve had to ‘build’ includes a 5th and 6th choice CB ‘options’ a RB playing LB as both LBs are injured, and 3rd choice CM playing because the first choice is covering CB and the second choice is ALSO injured.
We've covered individual games with lots of injuries before, but I can never in my lifetime remember when it’s been as bad as this.
No one has mentioned the "fit" players who have to play week in week out because there are no replacements. These include the 3 kids, Dalot, AWB and Evans dragged straight back in after 4 weeks out and would not have been match fit. Teenagers cannot keep this pace going without being sustituted now and again then get rubbished for having a poor game.
Your not winning games with CBs of Casimero and Evans... Dalot to be fair has played a lot of football and in both positions RB and LB..
Mainoo has had to pick up slack.. ..
Big misses Martinez.. Varane .. Shaw.. Lindelof . Willy .. was starting to do better.. its been bad injuries worst I've seen it..
Mainoo has had to pick up slack.. ..
Big misses Martinez.. Varane .. Shaw.. Lindelof . Willy .. was starting to do better.. its been bad injuries worst I've seen it..
Decisions I wish journalists would bring up with Ten Hag when he points to injuries as an excuse for abject performances:
Selling Elanga to Forest for £15m
Selling Fred to Turkey for £8m
Selling Alex Telles to moneybags Saudi Arabia for £4m
Sending Van de Beek on loan to Frankfurt for £2.5m
Sending Daniel Gore on loan to Port Vale for free
Sending Brandon Williams on loan to Ipswich for free
Sending Alvaro Fernandez on loan to Benfica for free in January when we'd already spent half the season in the grip of a left back injury crisis
Sending Reguillon back to Tottenham in January when we'd already spent half the season in the grip of a left back injury crisis
Spending £60m on Mason Mount when we already had a Donny Van de Beek at home
Spending £9m to loan Sofyan Amrabat
Deciding against spending £16m on a lad who wanted to stay, and who has since done fairly well in a Dortmund midfield that just reached the CL final
~
Now there are a few of those decisions that were probably the right ones, and a few that only look wrong with the benefit of hindsight. But there are a few that are absolutely glaring mistakes and it was his job to see those coming.
Selling Elanga to Forest for £15m
Selling Fred to Turkey for £8m
Selling Alex Telles to moneybags Saudi Arabia for £4m
Sending Van de Beek on loan to Frankfurt for £2.5m
Sending Daniel Gore on loan to Port Vale for free
Sending Brandon Williams on loan to Ipswich for free
Sending Alvaro Fernandez on loan to Benfica for free in January when we'd already spent half the season in the grip of a left back injury crisis
Sending Reguillon back to Tottenham in January when we'd already spent half the season in the grip of a left back injury crisis
Spending £60m on Mason Mount when we already had a Donny Van de Beek at home
Spending £9m to loan Sofyan Amrabat
Deciding against spending £16m on a lad who wanted to stay, and who has since done fairly well in a Dortmund midfield that just reached the CL final
~
Now there are a few of those decisions that were probably the right ones, and a few that only look wrong with the benefit of hindsight. But there are a few that are absolutely glaring mistakes and it was his job to see those coming.
It seems funny that the injuries are nearly all around the defence. Perhaps they are doing/not doing something in training the rest of the squad aint? just throwing it out there, as it is a definite anomoly.
I feel like defensive injuries have been a concern for us for a long time. Smalling and Jones could never stay fit, Bailly and Rojo weren’t much better. I remember games with Carrick and Fletcher playing at CB that must have been ten years ago at least.
Yes remember those times as well. When you put it like that, It's a bigger anomoly than first thought then.
Don’t worry guys, uncle Jim is on the case!!
I don't think our injuries are much to cry about, to be honest. Look at WW2, for example. A lot more injuries.
The left back position puzzles me a lot. Williams, Alavro, regulion, cucurella .. all options at one point. I'm surprised we do not play Amas, yes is youth, but the only legit left back we have left.
Less about signings but also decisions on the pitch Are concerning. Playing casemiro at CB, yes it was okay for the first game, but since he has been awful, he does not have the discipline to play that role. Awesome midfielder on his day, but 3 goals he was at fault for against Palace, all driven by lack of discipline.
I agree with you about the left back thing. We’ve been without a left back for most of the season, despite loaning out two left backs in the reserves who could have filled in, which was a very stupid decision.
Ha ha. When you put it like that.
Mount and Shaw have suffered setbacks in their recovery.
The Casemiro case earlier on in the season was interesting. He was given the all clear to play by our physios but didn't feel right in himself so went to Spain to see the doctor there and was told he was not good to play.
It's concerning that these players keep coming back and getting reinjured so clearly they are not fit to play but perhaps they are being given the go ahead?
It's concerning that these players keep coming back and getting reinjured so clearly they are not fit to play but perhaps they are being given the go ahead?
A bad luck season is two players getting a broken leg or ACL injury(long term injury in a season). This is complete incompetent people in their role, including ETH. The medical department is a disgrace, the Martinez situation at start of the season was a sign. Rehabilitation and being reintroduced to team, not good enough. Obviously something wrong in training and managing these players. It's not bad luck! It's a pure farce and nobody is surprised anymore.
Its bad mate! Look at it like this. Your thread was back in Feb. and at that point we already knew it was an issue. Hell to be honest, at that point we were breaking records for number of different starting 11's. fecking crazy.
12 pages later and its an even bigger issue.
I literally came here to post about injuries after reading about Mount today. How in the hell do out people keep getting hurt? WTF is going on? I watch other teams parade the same players practically every week and we got damn near a starting 11 on the sideline unable to play.
United need to sort that shit out!
12 pages later and its an even bigger issue.
I literally came here to post about injuries after reading about Mount today. How in the hell do out people keep getting hurt? WTF is going on? I watch other teams parade the same players practically every week and we got damn near a starting 11 on the sideline unable to play.
United need to sort that shit out!
I could understand it more if we were deep into all competitions again. Like last season where we were understandably run to the ground at the end of the season after so many games.
But this season.. we had 9 says preparation for Palace. Another week for Arsenal.. A week between matches all season. I remember when we got a week between matches before, you'd get most of your players back and it would be a God send.
I do have to wonder though how many are seriously unable to play and how many are declaring it themselves and not pushing themselves. I reckon if ETH got the bullet after Palace that we'd have more players available for Sunday than we actually will.
Yep, it’s not luck, most of these aren’t freak injuries. Big priority for INEOS to diagnose and fix.
Yes. There's no way this is bad luck.
Thought this was an interesting article.
Seems various “ injury “ league tables have been generated but many focus on purely on players in the squads and ignore under 21s
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ars...ue-injury-table-this-season-/view/news/437159
Seems various “ injury “ league tables have been generated but many focus on purely on players in the squads and ignore under 21s
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ars...ue-injury-table-this-season-/view/news/437159
Yes, but our injured players matter more than yours thus we have been hit hardest by injuries this season. Unprecedented!
And my Dads bigger than your dad!
Of course we have no idea how players that have had huge amount of time on the sidelines may have impacted . For us Forfana may or may not have made a huge difference just like we may have been far more balanced if James and Chillwell had been available but then Gusto may not have been able to flourish. Or had Lavia been available who knows.
It’s the importance of certain players to how we play that’s cost us more than the sheer amount. Having Martinez out practically the whole season aswell as Luke shaw and varane has been challenging at best.
The only injury league table that’s relevant is the one about first team squads.
Oh, I am actually just saying what EtH in crowd has been claiming. That objective facts do not matter, we have been hit more from injuries cause Martinez and Shaw something (ignoring that we were as shit when they were available).
I think it is just nonsense. When facts do not confirm the theory (we have had an unprecedented injury crisis) change the facts (that we aren’t even the team with most injuries this season).
Is first team the starting XI or the entire 25 player squad? If you mean by starting XI, I do not buy your argument especially cause very often is very unclear who is in the starting XI (Maguire or Varane, Sancho or Antony, Mainoo/Erikson/Mount etc).
Do you mean just players over the age of 21?
has there been any talk from the club, or respected sources, about the injuries? Look at today, arsenal have zero injuries or suspensions, despite a far more intense season.
Whether you think its a mitigating factor for ten hag or not, as a standalone issue it really is bordering on farcical/disgraceful. Our unavailable team today is comfortably stronger than the available one. Ranting and emotion aside, can somebody make any decent attempt to explain this and whether theres a way out of it
Whether you think its a mitigating factor for ten hag or not, as a standalone issue it really is bordering on farcical/disgraceful. Our unavailable team today is comfortably stronger than the available one. Ranting and emotion aside, can somebody make any decent attempt to explain this and whether theres a way out of it
One thing I have heard on the grapevine is that Ten Hag has a “one size fits all” fitness policy. Where players are driven equally hard to be as fit as possible and run as much as possible during training sessions. That is as far as that information extends.
if it is true, then it would seem to be a pretty big reasons for why we are seeing so many injuries, especially in defence. While the foundation for fitness has to largely be the same, defenders naturally have to cover a lot less ground than other players, and if they are older, this is a huge shock to the body. Generally speaking, as I understand it, most clubs have the finer details of fitness work tailored to the individual age, position, injury predisposition, and current condition of players. But we don’t under Ten Hag.
I have also heard that some players have been getting conflicting advice from their personal trainers or external doctors/surgeons. Someone posted above how Casemiro was told he was fit to play but consulted his doctor back in Spain who told him he wasn’t. I hadn’t heard any specific examples like that, but it certainly backs up what I was told.
What seems very, very clear to me, is that we need a complete overhaul of our medical and fitness department to integrate “best in class” technology, data, and personnel, to create an industry leading fitness department that operates almost autonomously from the head coach and his staff. That way when you change the head coach and his back room team, you keep these best in class assets in place. Their approach can be tweaked in concert with the head coach, but ultimately having the fittest and healthiest squad possible, is a universal principle surely?
The training and playing loads players have these days, mean that a rigorous evidence based approach is required. I would not leave it to the discretion of each head coach. Not at all. Players are our most valuable assets and as such the club should have the absolute best facilities and personnel to manage those assets irrespective of whether the coach is Pep PED Guardiola, or Olé Gunnar do what he wants Solksjaer.
if it is true, then it would seem to be a pretty big reasons for why we are seeing so many injuries, especially in defence. While the foundation for fitness has to largely be the same, defenders naturally have to cover a lot less ground than other players, and if they are older, this is a huge shock to the body. Generally speaking, as I understand it, most clubs have the finer details of fitness work tailored to the individual age, position, injury predisposition, and current condition of players. But we don’t under Ten Hag.
I have also heard that some players have been getting conflicting advice from their personal trainers or external doctors/surgeons. Someone posted above how Casemiro was told he was fit to play but consulted his doctor back in Spain who told him he wasn’t. I hadn’t heard any specific examples like that, but it certainly backs up what I was told.
What seems very, very clear to me, is that we need a complete overhaul of our medical and fitness department to integrate “best in class” technology, data, and personnel, to create an industry leading fitness department that operates almost autonomously from the head coach and his staff. That way when you change the head coach and his back room team, you keep these best in class assets in place. Their approach can be tweaked in concert with the head coach, but ultimately having the fittest and healthiest squad possible, is a universal principle surely?
The training and playing loads players have these days, mean that a rigorous evidence based approach is required. I would not leave it to the discretion of each head coach. Not at all. Players are our most valuable assets and as such the club should have the absolute best facilities and personnel to manage those assets irrespective of whether the coach is Pep PED Guardiola, or Olé Gunnar do what he wants Solksjaer.
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What I said. First team squad.
CB partnerships this season:
Arsenal: 3
United: 14
That really is the alpha and omega of it all.
Arsenal: 3
United: 14
That really is the alpha and omega of it all.