Television House of the Dragon (GoT Prequel) - No book spoilers allowed

Gehrman said:
The series isnt terrible by any means but it lacks what made prime GOT great. Having Aemond with a eyepatch as the main villain brings me back to that villian with an eyepatch from GOT. Greyjoy something?
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Think you might be thinking of Euron who was pirate-like but didn’t have an eyepatch. Or maybe he does in the books - where he’s apparently 10x the character - based off a quick search.

Aemond is a bit cartoonish but he’s a better character than that disaster.
 
RDCR07 said:
This season has been good. Yes there are slow parts to it but they can’t have an action scene every episode. And while I agree Alicent’s character is pretty useless and Olivia being bad at acting doesn’t help but Emma is a very good actor and her character is getting interesting.
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Interesting how things are perceived differently since even though I agree that Alicent's character is pretty redundant now, I think Olivia is doing a good job with what she is being given. While I find Emma actually not doing a good job for her character when the young actress seemed to own it much better.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Think you might be thinking of Euron who was pirate-like but didn’t have an eyepatch. Or maybe he does in the books - where he’s apparently 10x the character - based off a quick search.

Aemond is a bit cartoonish but he’s a better character than that disaster.
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Oh my memory was off. Its because Euron has a eyepatch in the books.
 
crappycraperson said:
Interesting how things are perceived differently since even though I agree that Alicent's character is pretty redundant now, I think Olivia is doing a good job with what she is being given. While I find Emma actually not doing a good job for her character when the young actress seemed to own it much better.
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The younger actress in S1 played the best character in the show so far. I know the new actress is playing an older, more mature and responsibility laden character - but the show is definitely poorer for it.

That said, it’s a good watch. It’s nowhere near as good as seasons 1-5 of GOT but it’s way, way better than seasons 6-8.
 
Do people genuinely like the show? I see a lot of reviews online and think it’s super fans afraid to say anything negative about it.

I watched season 1 and it was one of the most boring shows I’ve ever watched. The fact they can do time jumps between episodes highlights the fact that nothing happens. Following GoT was never going to be an easy task as it really is prime viewing but HOTD seems limp in comparison. I struggled through the first season, watching a few episodes when it initially came out and then leaving it for a year to try again and it still disappointed and bored me.

Then we the lazy script writing, names f characters either copying directly or a slight variation of the name that makes it sound the same as GoT charcters.

No clever or cunning plots being hatched behind people’s backs, it’s all out in the open. Even that one guy who is whispering to Alicent and helping her is a poor attempt at Little Finger. Don’t remember his character name as he’s not that memorable a character.

Reading online and it seems to be filler episode after filler episode for season 2, which is a repeat on season 1.
 
AbusementPark said:
Do people genuinely like the show? I see a lot of reviews online and think it’s super fans afraid to say anything negative about it.

I watched season 1 and it was one of the most boring shows I’ve ever watched. The fact they can do time jumps between episodes highlights the fact that nothing happens. Following GoT was never going to be an easy task as it really is prime viewing but HOTD seems limp in comparison. I struggled through the first season, watching a few episodes when it initially came out and then leaving it for a year to try again and it still disappointed and bored me.

Then we the lazy script writing, names f characters either copying directly or a slight variation of the name that makes it sound the same as GoT charcters.

No clever or cunning plots being hatched behind people’s backs, it’s all out in the open. Even that one guy who is whispering to Alicent and helping her is a poor attempt at Little Finger. Don’t remember his character name as he’s not that memorable a character.

Reading online and it seems to be filler episode after filler episode for season 2, which is a repeat on season 1.
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all of that is sort of true and yet almost not important at all. the fans, vast majority of them at least, want something close to GoT but they know they're not getting it any time soon, and more important, they're not getting it from other shows.

House of the Dragon isn't a perfect show or even close to prime GoT, but it's good on its own and there's nothing to bash here bar that simple fact.
 
Bole Top said:
all of that is sort of true and yet almost not important at all. the fans, vast majority of them at least, want something close to GoT but they know they're not getting it any time soon, and more important, they're not getting it from other shows.

House of the Dragon isn't a perfect show or even close to prime GoT, but it's good on its own and there's nothing to bash here bar that simple fact.
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Maybe it was my expectations of the show that it would be a repeat of GoT, or at least have the same flow to it, it’s missing that spark.

I did complete GoT again before starting to watch HOTD so it’s fresh on the memory how good GoT is. The first few episodes I did enjoy as it was building the story and offered a lot of promise, Daemon looked to be the main the agitator for the series but it never panned out that way at all. Then it was just all filler episodes.

Have Disney been listed as consultants on the show? It’s got that watered down vibe about it. Does anything meaningful happen in season 2 at all? I’m just expecting blood and gore, clever plots and scheming and it doesn’t deliver.
 
It was always going to fall shy off expectations, when they put themselves under 3-4 season limit. I've read up spoilers and expect the actual story to be massively cut/butchered to fall into timescales.
Bit like GoT after s7 announcing s8 was going to be 6 episodes. It was plain to see to a normal viewer, that even with story acceleration in season 7, season 8 was going to be a really tight squeeze.
End of the day, it's probably just HBO trying to maximize profit and move on.
 
Lots of you are very hard to please. It might lack a bit of the light relief of earlier seasons of GoT and the Daemon in Harenhal bits do drag a bit so far, but overall I've really enjoyed it, with some good Dragon action and presumably more to come. Maybe not the GOAT TV but very decent and I eagerly wait for the new episode to drop. Which has to be a good sign.
 
Bole Top said:
GOT is untouchable and sadly I can't see anyone putting a similar effort into a show any time soon.

we are at the end of the S2 now.

GOT, just in the first couple of episodes of S1, gave us Tyrion, Tywin, Hound, The Mountain, Varys, Baelish, Drogo, R. Baratheon, Ned and his sons + Theon, Jaime Lannister, Renly, Loras, Jorah Mormont, Alisser Thorne, Bronn etc :lol:

eyepatch? are you sure it was villain and not Berric?
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Exactly… so many memorable characters, while here I still don’t know the names of the majority.
 
Peak GoT had thousands of pages of amazing source material to use, source material that was basically perfect for TV adaption because of how detailed it was and how brilliant some of the quips, twists, and dialogue were. It's no surprise it completely fell off a cliff after that material started to run out. I actually think, that even though this isn't nearly as good, it's still pretty damn good considering all it has to go off is basically a historical recount of the time. We'll never get a GoT series anything like series 1-4 of GoT again, but this isn't half bad, all things considered. I think if you took it in isolation as a fantasy series it'd easily be one of the best out there.
 
Cina said:
Peak GoT had thousands of pages of amazing source material to use, source material that was basically perfect for TV adaption because of how detailed it was and how brilliant some of the quips, twists, and dialogue were. It's no surprise it completely fell off a cliff after that material started to run out. I actually think, that even though this isn't nearly as good, it's still pretty damn good considering all it has to go off is basically a historical recount of the time. We'll never get a GoT series anything like series 1-4 of GoT again, but this isn't half bad, all things considered. I think if you took it in isolation as a fantasy series it'd easily be one of the best out there.
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got was so good as it had a solid wanger to episode ratio. hod only had that one episode where we saw a blowjobbed cock and one-eye’s one-eye.
 
Cina said:
The boob to cock ratio in this is truly awful and a big part of the problem.
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agreed. it’s meant during some of the episodes i’ve had to spend time looking at my own.
 
rimaldo said:
agreed. it’s meant during some of the episodes i’ve had to spend time looking at my own.
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2 different opinions i found on youtube that describe exactly WHAT the problem with this show is:

I think the reason why HotD season 1 was a hit for me and season 2 missed the mark has very little to do with how slow it is. Shogun (2024) like HotD is a tv show punctuated with spurts of action (often accompanied with horrific violence) but most of its screen time can be described as "2 or 3 people in a room talking about an impending civil war". And yet Shogun captivated in a way HotD season 2 hasn't because of the remarkable concision in its storytelling and character development.Shogun is slow but it doesn't feel like it. Its writing has a certain quality (of confident, deliberate pen strokes) - everything that is shown or said is for a reason, even seemingly inconsequential moments like the hanging of the pheasant, or Mariko explaining to Blackthorne the meaning of "the eightfold fence" or Kiku explaining the meaning of "the willow world". Its all relayed to the viewer through a translator, who rewrites the meaning of the words for different people.It never repeats itself. Some new insight transforms our understanding of character that shapes the plot which makes us re-think character and thats on top of layers upon layers of additional meaning introduced by the imperfection of language and translation. This is a constant process that is happening both on and off screen for all of its central characters. The longer I watched Shogun, nothing seemed to happen and yet everything was happening right in front of me. It was like an epiphany when I realised it - as if all the people who made this show and wrote the book it was based on were waiting for me to get here. The Battle of Sekigahara isn't the war. The war is the prelude to it - the people talking in a room. Thats where all the decisions are made to reshape events that put the outcome of the battle beyond doubt. The battle itself is almost a formality because its over before it even begins (and it was a great creative decision to not show it).In HotD season 2, I felt like the plot and the characters are 2 separate things. Characters too often say and do things only when the plot requires them to, as opposed to plot emerging from the motivations (both explicit and implicit) of well realised characters. The Black Council stalls and repeats itself. The writers seem reluctant to portray their two queens (Alicent and Rhaenyra) as cruel and indifferent - something they will have to be because you can't drag an entire continent into a fantasy nuclear civil war over a family spat without being unusually cruel and indifferent.There are only so many times a vassal can act on their queen's behalf (with or without their consent or knowledge) and strengthen or weaken their position before I realised this is a show whose 2 main characters have no agency at all. While screentime is being gobbled up at Harrenhall and the Black Council, it leaves characters like Addam of Hull, Ulf and Daeron highly under-developed, on the eve of their grand entrance on the stage. They have screentime you can measure in seconds or no screentime at all and when they aren't shown they aren't developed offscreen either, requiring naked exposition dumps to get the viewer up to speed. One such example is the conversation between Gwayne and Alicent where Alicent has to refer to her own son (Daeron) by name and Gwayne has to tell Alicent how old he is, as if she doesn't know. Its only written this way for the viewer's benefit because Daeron has been totally absent up to now, but we are approaching the time where the plot needs him so here we go again with the late, disheveled entrance from left of stage.Some of the choices in the adaptation from book to screen make no sense to me and even seem wasteful. Why rewrite source material to leave open the possibility that Laenor is alive, only for him not to return and reclaim Seasmoke? Where they afraid to give Rhaenyra an unsympathetic streak? Thats ok. That would be good and Emma D'Arcy is a phenomenal actor who can carry it. That would help make their character more complex like Aegon II (wonderfully portrayed by Tom Glynn-Carney) who is paradoxically both sympathetic and unsympathetic - a weak king who abuses his power to indulge in hedonistic vice. He is capable of cruelty in ways that only a child can, because they have no concept of boundaries. And yet he seeks the validation of his family and wants to do the right things - he just doesn't know what they are. The writers are capable of writing complex characters and I think it is necessary for them to make changes in the adaptation from book to show. Show Viserys is so much more complex (and better) than book Viserys and I'm glad they chose to portray him this way.But for all the great adaptations there are an equal number that suggest its a bit random. It feels like the writing for the show is a painting from an artist unsure of their own considerable talent - the brush strokes are hesitant and sometime aimless. As if the artist is unsure of what it will look like when its finished and is almost afraid of making a mistake they don't have the confidence to paint their way out of.Shogun didn't feel like this at all despite having even less action and no truly spectacular set piece like the Battle of Rook's Rest. It felt like it was written with bold, confident strokes with a clear vision of what its characters are, what they will become and how the story will emerge from that. The adaptations from source material made sense and the result is wonderfully consistent, confident, efficient storytelling. HotD season 2 has the same highs but some baffling lows and its the inconsistency that I find a bit disappointing - because its not like they can't. They can and have, but they also can and haven't.
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This isn't on George. George wrote the outline for the screenwriters to adapt, dramatize... and to connect the dots between the events within the outline.The problem is the actual writers are NOT GOOD. Their collective work is terrible. Or in one case... non-existent. And the show runner himself was doing Rampage and Hercules. Two of The Rock's worst films in the previous decade. George gave them the "what". As in "what happens". It was up to the screenwriters to create the "how", and the "why" it happens. To give the audience a deep-dive into the souls and minds of the characters, as to WHY they decide to do what they do. And HOW their decisions play out. And that is where these writers have FAILED. They seem FAR more interested in how the characters FEEL about the results of these events. And as a result, they completely take for granted THE VERY THING THAT MADE GAME OF THRONES SUCH SENSATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. Which is realism, within the behavior of the characters themselves. We understood those characters. And how their journeys changed them. But when the show runners ran out of runway, and had to write beyond the books... THAT'S where the show failed. Not because of any lack of spectacle. But because the characters STOPPED being the people we knew so well. And started to behave in an unrealistic manner. More and more as the last few seasons progressed. The more these House of the Dragon writers change what George laid out for them, the more they take these characters off road into unrealistic territory. Which is incredibly BORING. We need to see, feel and understand WHY THEY DO WHAT THEY DO. We need to know that they are operating at the top of their own capabilities. And that the greatest surprises happen when these forces collide. NOT when someone suddenly does something completely out of character. Which is what these writers have been using to attempt to surprise audiences. And it's just BAD. Bad writing.And because they brush over these simple-minded writing choices... it starts to build and build. Where we stop caring about anyone involved. Nobody cares about Danny's death in season 8 because her character was trashed by those writers. Littlefinger's death was cringe. Aria's victory over the Night King was overshadowed by such a silly episode, with nonsensical plot armor on full display. Nobody cared about Bran becoming king, because of such a corny speech about "Bran the Broken". And everything else before it. Ser Criston Cole beating a lord to death at the wedding with no consequences was so ridiculous. As was the sudden turning point of his character, where he got emo because the princess wouldn't abandon her life with him. Helena or ANY MOTHER, so easily giving up their child to murderers invading the royal apartments, was just absolutely absurd. Especially when she would be assuming that royal guards would be everywhere within earshot. Any mother would beg for their child's life. Easily giving their own life to save them. And instead she just quietly points. With no guards around during wartime.Aemond one eye suddenly turning king/kin slayer in front of the entire kingdom was ridiculous. He wasn't given any reason to. Except for some slight embarrassment at the brothel. And after he regretfully allowed his bullying to go to far, when his dragon wouldn't listen to him in the finale of season one. Escalating the war. Now... Had he INTENTIONALLY killed the prince. And showed some signs of looking to usurp the throne from his brother... That would have been perfect fine. Rheynese deciding to turn back a second time, heading into certain death was silly. And a completely unnecessary change from the book. Where she had no choice but to fight to the death. But here, she had already taken out the king. And should have obviously run back with the good news. Sillyness. Which is supposed to be dramatic. But we don't feel it. We should have been DEVASTATED by Blood & Cheese. DEVASTATED by the each death of a key character. And all the while thinking "what else could they have done?!" It's unavoidable tragedy that grips us the hardest. Easily avoidable stupidity only infuriates audiences. And then we're supposed to connect with the depressed queen as she floats in the lake?? Or the Dragon Queen as she mismanages her house?? The ONLY character we can see behaving to the best of their limited ability, is King Aegon. And that's because he dumb. The point is, characters in a story will only ever be as smart as the writers who create them. And THAT'S the problem. For real, look at their collective credits. It's not good. A few went on to write for the bloody Acolyte! Trash... George wrote them a blank check. And these folks decided to write "apples" in the dollar amount. Talk about leaving money on the table. Relying on spectacle alone to fuel viewership. With dramatic aftermath driving the characters. And it's not enough.
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Cina said:
Peak GoT had thousands of pages of amazing source material to use, source material that was basically perfect for TV adaption because of how detailed it was and how brilliant some of the quips, twists, and dialogue were. It's no surprise it completely fell off a cliff after that material started to run out. I actually think, that even though this isn't nearly as good, it's still pretty damn good considering all it has to go off is basically a historical recount of the time. We'll never get a GoT series anything like series 1-4 of GoT again, but this isn't half bad, all things considered. I think if you took it in isolation as a fantasy series it'd easily be one of the best out there.
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Agreed!
 
Glorio said:
Rather morbid but the bold decision to call all the bastards killed 2 birds with one stone.

For one, they got new dragon riders, and secondly, killed off a whole host of potential pretenders to the throne.
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Bastards don't have any claims to the throne.
 
What makes TV show bad is not bad writing.

It's more keep it open for further extension and spin off and trying to make things drag in hope of more cash.

Shogun is well made because the material is finished in it's writings, clear ending or at least the way the writer intended
 
RDCR07 said:
An hour to go to the season finale. Can’t wait!

Just out of curiosity did Hugh say he is actually a brother to Viserys and Daemon rather than a cousin? Cause if he is a brother, looking into the future, wonder what his role would be in case he wants to stake a claim to the throne just like Daemon?
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Bastards don't have claims to the throne. It's actually one of the biggest plot points in the show....
 
RDCR07 said:
To just the Iron Throne or even a House throne?
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They have to be given the name by the head of the house. Upon birth, depending on where they're born they'll have the a surname like snow if they're born in the north. When Ramsey took over winterfel, Roose gave him the surname Bolton for example, and he was no longer snow.

And why team green were aggy in season 1 about Rhaenyras kids, and corlys brother (can't remember his name) kicked off over luke being the heir to driftmark.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
They have to be given the name by the head of the house. Upon birth, depending on where they're born they'll have the a surname like snow if they're born in the north. When Ramsey took over winterfel, Roose gave him the surname Bolton for example, and he was no longer snow.

And why team green were aggy in season 1 about Rhaenyras kids, and corlys brother (can't remember his name) kicked off over luke being the heir to driftmark.
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Corlys brother is Vaemond. So what happens if Hugh is given the name Targaryen? What happens then?
 
RDCR07 said:
Corlys brother is Vaemond. So what happens if Hugh is given the name Targaryen? What happens then?
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Yeah, he kicked off because Luke is a bastard.

And nothing, Rhaenyra has a named heir in jace. And a full blooded spare too should something to jace. You can't just claim the thrown on a whim there needs to be a reason for it. What claim would Hugh have over Rhaenyras heirs (ignoring ones an unofficial bastard) and daemon?
 
Now that episode I agree was a let down. Needed more of a cliffhanger. Needed a bit more to happen in general.
 
RDCR07 said:
I think the way they ended episode 7 would have been a great cliffhanger.
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Agreed. But then again, maybe it's better this way. The whole Alicent and Rhaenyra interaction again made me feel like they need to move this show to the CW or just add some Taylor Swift or Billy Eilish music to it already. My favorite characters are Ser Simon Strong and that new little Lord of the Riverlands. Heleana maybe a bit. Couldn't give a hoot about the rest.
 
:lol: Finally felt like we were getting somewhere with all the buildup, then kept looking at the remaining time. What a letdown. Season 2 was basically a big feck you!
 
Well that was disappointing.

Saw an interview where they decided to delay the next event until next season, when originally it would have come in episode 9 or 10.

They said they decided this was a better way to end the season.

I just can’t believe that, must be some other reason.
 
So much filler. That´s the main problem with series. Everything gets dragged out so they can rake more cash in. I was so looking forward to an epic battle. Instead we just got more talking about things to come.
 
AbusementPark said:
Do people genuinely like the show? I see a lot of reviews online and think it’s super fans afraid to say anything negative about it.

I watched season 1 and it was one of the most boring shows I’ve ever watched. The fact they can do time jumps between episodes highlights the fact that nothing happens. Following GoT was never going to be an easy task as it really is prime viewing but HOTD seems limp in comparison. I struggled through the first season, watching a few episodes when it initially came out and then leaving it for a year to try again and it still disappointed and bored me.

Then we the lazy script writing, names f characters either copying directly or a slight variation of the name that makes it sound the same as GoT charcters.

No clever or cunning plots being hatched behind people’s backs, it’s all out in the open. Even that one guy who is whispering to Alicent and helping her is a poor attempt at Little Finger. Don’t remember his character name as he’s not that memorable a character.

Reading online and it seems to be filler episode after filler episode for season 2, which is a repeat on season 1.
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It's a very poor show by a lot of "metrics" - acting, writing, character development, plots - with high production values. It's strangely watchable (with your phone in hand, to scroll during the long boring periods of the episode with nothing of note happening, just another poorly written exposition scene) but it's not good per se.
 
How are people annoyed at the lack of action? The penultimate episode being the episode of action has been a GOTism since beginning of the franchise?
 
Good episode I thought, but leaves me fuming that it's the last one. Plenty of things that tied up the season well though, for me.

Sure I remember GoT seasons ending in a similar way, laying out all the pieces for the next season.
 
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