People are getting very confused in this thread. Nobody is suggesting he must be forced to wear the armband, only that it's homophobic to choose not to wear it, which very clearly it is.
Homophobia in football
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Does this not affect the next person? Someone practising their own religion, praying, going to church, fasting, etc... all don't affect anyone else. This can affect people. Gay fans who support that club, knowing their captain doesn't believe their sexuality is right? What if there's a gay player in the squad, or youth teams? Or the club staff?
They aren’t confused. They are clutching at straws to defend the indefensible.
His freedom of religion or association is no more under attack than someone's freedom of speech is under attack from you disagreeing with them.
You're also doing exactly the same thing as what you're calling dictatorial: disagreeing strongly with how someone expresses themselves.
The sooner as an adult you get over idolising people the better. You watch football to enjoy football skills not to be reaffirmed of your life choices or as some moral compass. Also refusing to participate in these awareness campaigns is not equivalent to not wanting a particular group to cease to exist.
People can disagree with him however they want but it’s the punishment part that I don’t agree with. He loves Jesus, the next person loves rainbow flags, life goes on.
Nothing to see here. You can take any abhorrent idea or practice and say it is part of your religion and that automatically makes it OK.
The ultimate immunity.
The ultimate immunity.
And Ipswich Town just decided to let this happen? Instead of having somebody else be captain for the match and wear the armband, they decided letting their homophobic captain express his homophobia to the world was more important?
Can they drop to the conference please
Can they drop to the conference please
Rather admire the irony of your first sentence there. Maybe we could forward this advice on to Sam Morsy.
Then you're deeply confused, because you're arguing with people calling him homophobic, and talking about people "ganging up". Punishment has barely been a part of the conversation at all.
Also, even though Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam, claiming that Morsy loves Jesus is a bit strange unless he has specifically said so. Most Muslims wouldn't agree with that, Jesus isn't exactly central.
Anyone who suggests it's OK to be homosexual so long as you don't act on it is clearly a closeted homosexual themselves and badly need to get out there and take a good dicking so they can move on with their lives and stop talking absolute shite
This is obviously bollocks. Do you believe this, or are you just presenting what people might believe?
There are few industries detached from religion that are as homophobic as football. Covering up sexual abuse and hating homosexuals is something the football community has been perfecting for decades.
It's basically a rainbow armband with a giant DON'T sign over it which is worse than not wearing it.
It's basically a rainbow armband with a giant DON'T sign over it which is worse than not wearing it.
It isn't homophobic to choose not to wear it neither. Its simply a personal choice based on personal values. It shouldn't be made a into bigger deal than it actual is. One person not supporting the cause does not suddenly negate the cause nor snatch away all the rights of the people the cause is for.
What personal values are those?
Based on (homophobic) personal values, sure.
Loving Jesus is homophobic? And can people separate symbols or parades from the people they represent. Refusing to wear pride symbols for example is not the same as hating LGBTQI people. It’s the same as assuming everyone who didn’t want to take the knee 4yrs ago was racist. That’s complete nonsense.
Sexuality is not a choice. However, religion is.
It should not matter what anyone else thinks/believes of an individual's sexuality. It's that particular obssession that has been the root cause of all sexuality related conflict in the first place across all human history.
A truly bullshit argument.
Does me refusing to wear an American National team Jersey or a jersey branded with American flag means I hate the Americans?
I'd have to ask, do you understand the term homophobia?
No, loving Jesus is not homophobic, I think you have confused yourself again. You seem to also have forgotten that you were only against punishment, not the criticism.
Doesn't make somebody a bad person to choose not to wear it, I don't think everyone should be forced to actively protest for somebody else's cause. But also if you choose not to wear it you should be ok with the ramifications (isolating a group of people who will dislike you or call you homophobic or whatever).
Don't think it's a big deal ultimately. If you want to actively support the cause, then do it. Don't fake do it just because of social pressure. If you don't want to do it because of your personal or religious beliefs or just because you don't want to take part in a protest, that's your choice. Not like every person who is complaining about it goes to every (or any) pro Palestine protest, or BLM protests, or LGBT+ protest, or whatever else that is going on in the world.
Don't think it's a big deal ultimately. If you want to actively support the cause, then do it. Don't fake do it just because of social pressure. If you don't want to do it because of your personal or religious beliefs or just because you don't want to take part in a protest, that's your choice. Not like every person who is complaining about it goes to every (or any) pro Palestine protest, or BLM protests, or LGBT+ protest, or whatever else that is going on in the world.
Ask Sam Morsy.
Well stated.
Refusing to take part in a protest doesn't mean you are actively against it. You can take part in a protest, not take part in a protest, and be actually against it. Of course if someone doesn't take part in one, you don't know if they are against it or just don't want to take part. But for me I don't automatically assume someone is a piece of shit for not taking part in the protest.
I do. I'm also not going to have a debate about the term neither, in here.
You're making misleading comparisons. This bloke is only being asked to wear an armband that is a specific colour. Nothing more than that. It's not even the tiniest inconvenience to help support a campaign to give a persecuted minority a bit more recognition. If he chooses to take a stand over this then he's very clearly stating his position as someone who won't make even an insignificant effort to make this minority feel included. So fully deserves whatever shit he gets.
He's not being asked to take part in a protest.
No, but it might indicate that you have a problem with the US as a country or what they represent, what they do in global politics, etc. So, how does that compare to this situation?
This is different though - and it was said it is for religious beliefs, so it's easy to read between the lines and see that he is almost certainly against the idea/movement, not just passively disinterested.
We already know this. His reasons are based on his understanding of a book of stories that was written less than a thousand years ago. With that comes scrutiny.
If he said he just didn’t fancy wearing it and applied this towards other aspects of clothing like sponsors and poppies then this wouldn’t be a discussion.
But it is a discussion, primarily because of what he’s refusing to wear and the reasons he’s providing for not wearing it.
Oh maybe I didn’t clarify myself well .
So there are 2 issues currently involving the armband .
1. Ipswich captain refusing to wear a pride armband.
2. Guehi writing I love Jesus on the armband.
So I believe the 2 men have beliefs that should be respected. The second one however could have just opted to not wear it if that’s how he felt and that should be okay if the society is as tolerant as it claims to be
The player in question is Egyptian, so wearing a rainbow armband does in fact come with inconveniences, given you can go to prison for homosexuality in Egypt. So if he does something small like wear an armband in support of LGBTQ+, does he ever play for the Egyptian national team again? Does he cause issues for family and relatives back home? Does he ruin relationships with some people back home who might have stronger thoughts on this matter?
Of course everyone should be allowed to live as they want and the protest is a good cause. But someone not doing it has multiple layers to it beyond he's a piece of shit and it definitely is choosing to take part in a protest if he does wear it.
Bottom line it is HIS personal choice. End of story. I never understand why secularists who protest when even one religious value is imposed on them are then all too eager to impose their/others values on religious folk.
Not necessarily. Maybe I won’t wear it because I’m not a US citizen and I see it as a betrayal to my beloved country. For example I personally would never wear any national team jersey other than a South African one simply because I’m South African. Nothing to do with those countries.
The same can be said that this guy doesn’t want to wear anything that doesn’t align with his beliefs at his own discretion.
I can’t stand it when professional athletes use their platform to push a religious agenda, especially in the face of celebrating diversity. If you won’t wear it, so be it, unfortunate, but not surprising since we are still in a world that lacks acceptance.
You're wrong here though Muslims wouldn't call him Jesus.
I could see either scenario that he defaulted to his personal religious belief as the easy 1 sentence explanation that does also include the factors I listed in my previous reply that go far beyond his own personal beliefs but the tangible effects that a Muslim player from a Muslim country has on that players' family and his own well being/opportunities when he visits his country. If he is just passively disinterested, but knows that wearing the armband would be an end to his international career (no idea I'm just speculating), or would lead to issues for him back home or cause his family issues... Why would he wear it? If he's passively disinterested, he'll prioritize the stuff he actually cares about (himself and his family).
In summary, not everyone has to support somebody else's cause and it doesn't make someone a cnut for not joining in on a protest, and this is literally a form of a protest.
As a side note, all the people going hard on the criticism, how many pro LGBTQ protests have you been to this year? How many pro Palestinian rights protests? How many rainbow stickers or laces thongs do you have to show support? Does saying 0 to any of these make you against it?
Nobody is imposing anything on him. He’s being criticised. That’s not the same. He has every right to his choice. As much as I have every right to criticise him for it. It’s that simple.
It is my personal choice to deem him a bigoted homophob, who can go to the deepest layer of hell he believes in. End of story.
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