Henry Winter: Rashford spent the summer getting supremely fit, reporting early for training | Wants to stay as he loves the club

15 g/a this season I reckon, unlike others I’ve taken the positives from his performance yesterday, should have scored at least the second one but it’ll come and he’ll be a good asset this season.
 
CtrlAltDeLigt said:
I would argue about only the part where you say he has no talent. Of course he does, how do you end up scoring 20+ goals in multiple seasons otherwise? He’s definitely shown enough over the past 4-5 years, that he has the talent as well as potential.

But this is all about mentality, over the long run, he’s shown multiple instances where he just loses his head based on circumstances as well as pressure. You can’t really afford to perform only when “you’re feeling like it”
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Where did I claim he had no talent?
I said he’s never been an elite talent and that’s just what it is, very few players are.
People thought Mourinho was a dick, for not putting all his trust in Rashford, but like every other coach he did what he thought was right for the team, Jose Mourinho came to United on the back coaching the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Eden Hazard, Mourinho basically gave Hazard a free role at Chelsea, he also knew Rashford was never that level of talent, nor he warranted that kind of role.

I actually think if it wasn’t for the club forcing Rashford into a talisman role his Man United career would be looked at in a completely different light, a successful one, at least from an individual perspective.
Arguably, he over achieved given his level of talent.
 
Doracle said:
What did Amad do that was so good out of interest? I recall two decent moments - one of which ended with him failing to find Mount. I didn’t think he had a bad match by any means (he just couldn’t get involved enough) but there’s no way that would be being portrayed as a good performance if Rashford had produced it.

Hard to compare that to Rashford getting in good positions to score 4 times and setting up two other chances - all whilst being fairly isolated and having to do a excessive amount of tracking back because we don’t have a left back.
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I recall him creating 2 shooting chances in the box for himself, trying to set up striker with a chance (for #9 that we were missing), he constantly pinned the fullback and tracked back. This is what I expect from a winger.

I don't recall Rashford setting up two chances, one was the header and the second?
 
Borys said:
Exactly. I think Amad and Bruno had good games and I can explain why. I think anyone who thinks Rashford had a good game should also be able to explain the reasons. "he almost scored" doesn't seem like a strong argument to me.

EDIT: just to make it clear, I don't criticise him for not missing the chances, it happens. On another occasion and hopefully in a serious game he scores 2.
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It wasn't just that he missed the chances, that happens. It was how he missed them. They were both very hesitant, nervous strikes. Almost like he was trying not me mess up rather than trying to score. Signs of a guy with no confidence in his game right now and unfortunately, the same guy we saw last season.

My prediction...this will be the season where Rashford falls out of favor with ETH and request a move. Unless he regains his form, he doesn't to start over Amad or Garnacho. If ETH has the balls to bench him, and we know ETH doesn't like to rotate, I dont see Rashford taking it well.
 
Hammondo said:
He ruined nearly every attack he was involved in, he created nothing, he was only a negative to our play, he was useless defensively just beaten constantly.
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This is correct.

I swear that some posters defending him must be family, there's no other reason for their posts.
 
Red_toad said:
I said he had a decent game, had he scored he'd have played well. He wasn't a problem for the team like he was last season. I expect him to have more involvement when he's got a proper fullback behind him, as we tend to play more down the right when Rashford is more isolated.
Mainoo didn't have one of his better days, don't see the floods to his threads to complain about him. He also contributed to the teams good performance against City, without doing anything outstanding.
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This is the problem with some, just scoring a goal doesn't mean he played well.
 
alexthelion said:
If that's your idea of playing well I would hate to see what you think is mediocre.
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Not tracking back and not pressing as a team. Giving up when losing the ball. He should have done better with his chances for sure.
 
Think we need reminding - he's on £300k a week.

All this talk of hoping he grows into confidence throughout the season and gradually improves his performances is ridiculous. He's not some academy prospect or new signing, he's our biggest earner, and one who's been at this club for several years now. The fact he shouldn't be a guaranteed starter in the team with the wages he's on makes it clear we should be rid of him.
 
Genuinely think he's our worst winger behind Antony and Pellestri. One of the poorest players in our squad who is very lucky that the rest of the team seem to really want to set him up for shots for some reason. I would prioritise getting rid of him over Sancho, Casemiro, McTom, or anyone else.
 
Borys said:
Exactly! Whether player scores a chance or not is not a good indicator of his performance. I am asking what did he do to make you say he played well, because I don't think he did much.
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No one said he played well or that he was amazing. That's you exaggerating to try to prove a nonsensical point.
 
Pav1878 said:
But he didn’t put the chances away. No one has an agenda against him, we just don’t think the sun shines out of his backside like some on here. No on should be above criticism and standards should be high at United. Can’t believe that even needs to be said but here you go
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That's absolutely not true, Marcus is disliked on a personal basis by many fans, even when he was playing well few seasons ago the consensus was it being a purple patch more so than objectively highlighting the benefits of his contribution to the team. He was character assassinated over the campaign to help the children, turned into a meme at times about feeding school kids and told to focus on football when his form was poor.

Additionally, Rashford scored the same amount of goals in the league as Garnacho last season in what is considered a diabolical season for him. He is rightly held to a higher standard being a senior player and I don't disagree that his attitude and performances have been lackluster but there is a phenomenalism shared amongst many in how bad he actually is.

The fallout via social media would have you think he put in a stinker of a performance which isn't true, he navigated good movement to get into attacking positions but wasn't prolific or composed enough in front of goal.

He didn't perform well subjectively but his performance certainly wasn't a concern to the degree he's aimlessly walking around and putting in absolutely no effort which we have seen being the sign of concern when he checks out.
 
To me, the real cultural reset will begin when he leaves. Along with Antony and Sancho.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
Genuinely think he's our worst winger behind Antony and Pellestri. One of the poorest players in our squad who is very lucky that the rest of the team seem to really want to set him up for shots for some reason. I would prioritise getting rid of him over Sancho, Casemiro, McTom, or anyone else.
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This is just dumb. He's been inconsistent and disappointing in the last year, but he's levels above those two.
 
Judas said:
This is just dumb. He's been inconsistent and disappointing in the last year, but he's levels above those two.
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Yeah you could have said that about Delle Ali too for a few seasons.

He's on the decline and won't be back. He was a decent player on his day, but these days he's really bad and needs moving on before it's too late because he'll only get worse.
 
roseguy64 said:
No one said he played well or that he was amazing. That's you exaggerating to try to prove a nonsensical point.
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Wrong:
Red_toad said:
Just because a player misses a chance doesn't mean they had a poor performance.
He played well , if you don't see it that's fine I'm not going to do a YouTube content to show all involvements. Manager was fine with him and so am I. Hoping he has a very good season. Finding the negativity very tedious already! Team played well as a whole, which was very positive.
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He's a spurs player we are never going to win titles relying on him for our main goal source. Our fault he has become that not his. He was never capable of fulfilling that role here. Him and Sancho need to be sold asap.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Who says he is our main goal threat ? You ?

People only say he is out main goal threat because in a couple of seasons he has scored a ton of goals. That is a feather in his cap not a negative
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Then who is? And if he isn’t then doesn’t that prove my point? What use is he if he mopes around the pitch all the time and barely contributes?
 
Redstain said:
That's absolutely not true, Marcus is disliked on a personal basis by many fans, even when he was playing well few seasons ago the consensus was it being a purple patch more so than objectively highlighting the benefits of his contribution to the team. He was character assassinated over the campaign to help the children, turned into a meme at times about feeding school kids and told to focus on football when his form was poor.

Additionally, Rashford scored the same amount of goals in the league as Garnacho last season in what is considered a diabolical season for him. He is rightly held to a higher standard being a senior player and I don't disagree that his attitude and performances have been lackluster but there is a phenomenalism shared amongst many in how bad he actually is.

The fallout via social media would have you think he put in a stinker of a performance which isn't true, he navigated good movement to get into attacking positions but wasn't prolific or composed enough in front of goal.

He didn't perform well subjectively but his performance certainly wasn't a concern to the degree he's aimlessly walking around and putting in absolutely no effort which we have seen being the sign of concern when he checks out.
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Funnily enough, time has proved them right.

The rest of the post is, I'm afraid, Rashford FC drivel.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
Genuinely think he's our worst winger behind Antony and Pellestri. One of the poorest players in our squad who is very lucky that the rest of the team seem to really want to set him up for shots for some reason. I would prioritise getting rid of him over Sancho, Casemiro, McTom, or anyone else.
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Could you see either of those two scoring 30 goals in a season for us?
 
RedorDead21 said:
He's a spurs player we are never going to win titles relying on him for our main goal source. Our fault he has become that not his. He was never capable of fulfilling that role here. Him and Sancho need to be sold asap.
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Our LW shouldn’t be the main goal threat anyway, it should be the no9, (Rasmus/Zirkzee).
 
Pav1878 said:
Then who is? And if he isn’t then doesn’t that prove my point? What use is he if he mopes around the pitch all the time and barely contributes?
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i just think you are inventing quite a high bar for him as our main goal threat. bruno scored a rake of goals over two seasons. we have a 70 million striker. rashford is a winger, just because he scored 30 goals one season doesn't mean that is now the baseline we should expect for him to be a useful player.
 
He normally follows a poor season with a good one in his United career. That’s all I have to cling on to now. And the fact that Antony and Sancho are such poor alternatives. But I’m clutching at straws
 
M Bison said:
15 g/a this season I reckon, unlike others I’ve taken the positives from his performance yesterday, should have scored at least the second one but it’ll come and he’ll be a good asset this season.
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For the wage he is on he needs to be among the very best players in the league, finding a way to be decent every now and then isn't good enough after demanding that contract
 
M Bison said:
15 g/a this season I reckon, unlike others I’ve taken the positives from his performance yesterday, should have scored at least the second one but it’ll come and he’ll be a good asset this season.
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15 g/a isn't a positive. He needs to be hitting double that. Minimum.
 
Remember the geese said:
15 g/a isn't a positive. He needs to be hitting double that. Minimum.
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How many left wingers in the big European leagues had 30GA last season out of interest? I’m fairly certain no one managed it in the premier league. Leão and Kvarat didn’t in Italy, Williams didn’t in Spain.

Now, I agree with you that Rashford is a excellent player, so we should have greater expectations, but he’s also playing in a more dysfunctional team. Surely we should be setting realistic targets accordingly? Perhaps 20-25GA would be sensible, subject to seeing how well set up the team is this year?
 
Doracle said:
How many left wingers in the big European leagues had 30GA last season out of interest? I’m fairly certain no one managed it in the premier league. Leão and Kvarat didn’t in Italy, Williams didn’t in Spain.

Now, I agree with you that Rashford is a excellent player, so we should have greater expectations, but he’s also playing in a more dysfunctional team. Surely we should be setting realistic targets accordingly? Perhaps 20-25GA would be sensible, subject to seeing how well set up the team is this year?
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I expect Rashford's performances to reflect his pay. Sure, he isn't paid as much as Mbappe. However, he is definitely one of the highest paid players in his position in world football, so his performances and end product need to reflect that. Consistently.
 
Cee90 said:
To me, the real cultural reset will begin when he leaves. Along with Antony and Sancho.
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1000%

Even in his 30 goal scoring season, his game crippled overall team performance, I don't understand why lot of people blindsided by his goals in few seasons and not looking at the overall impact on team!
 
Remember the geese said:
I expect Rashford's performances to reflect his pay. Sure, he isn't paid as much as Mbappe. However, he is definitely one of the highest paid players in his position in world football, so his performances and end product need to reflect that. Consistently.
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I actually expect his performances to reflect the chance he got in life from the club, as a way of paying back for making you a global superstar. The economic factors come in second. It's not his fault he is on the current wages. Of course, his agent will look for the most money he can get from the club, he has his client's best interests in mind.

What is simply baffling to me, and hard to accept is that from all the players we have on the team, he is the one who should know the most about what it means to play for this club, the tradition, value, and the club's ethos. To see him strolling through games, not putting in the effort to track back, pulling out from tackles, ducking headers, while wearing Rooney's number 10 who ran after every ball like a madman. Nah, that I can not expect from an academy graduate who has been with the club for 8 years now. His lying to the club about being sick in order not to show up for training is the straw that broke the camel's back with many fans.
 
If only Rashford had the work ethic and attitude of Andrew Cole.
Cole had a tough start at United but he stuck at it, worked hard to get use to the new style of play and turned himself into a great striker and player for the club.
Rashford is the complete opposite of Andrew Cole, he should just be removed from the club he has had chance upon chance and taken the manager, the club and us fans for a ride.
 
Vidooq said:
I actually expect his performances to reflect the chance he got in life from the club, as a way of paying back for making you a global superstar. The economic factors come in second. It's not his fault he is on the current wages. Of course, his agent will look for the most money he can get from the club, he has his client's best interests in mind.

What is simply baffling to me, and hard to accept is that from all the players we have on the team, he is the one who should know the most about what it means to play for this club, the tradition, value, and the club's ethos. To see him strolling through games, not putting in the effort to track back, pulling out from tackles, ducking headers, while wearing Rooney's number 10 who ran after every ball like a madman. Nah, that I can not expect from an academy graduate who has been with the club for 8 years now. His lying to the club about being sick in order not to show up for training is the straw that broke the camel's back with many fans.
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Agreed. He's failing to meet standards consistently on more than one level. His enthusiasm levels really seem to have fluctuated over the years. You could point to the toxic environment and failing culture affecting him, but he's definitely lacking when it comes to mentality.

I want to see him produce his top level consistently. Without that consistency, he isn't worth keeping because his status doesn't lend itself to being a backup/rotation player.
 
The issue with Rashford is the low expectation bar. He's still treated like a fresh academy graduate that we should be grateful is simply getting game time experience - not (probably) the highest earner at the club. Having a few weeks every couple of years where he justifies his salary, cannot cut it any more
 
Kaos said:
Think we need reminding - he's on £300k a week.

All this talk of hoping he grows into confidence throughout the season and gradually improves his performances is ridiculous. He's not some academy prospect or new signing, he's our biggest earner, and one who's been at this club for several years now. The fact he shouldn't be a guaranteed starter in the team with the wages he's on makes it clear we should be rid of him.
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I think everyone agrees by now that he's not a 300k a week player and that's not down to talent (he had shown in the past of being able to be a 20-30 goals a season winger) but mentality. However the contract had been signed, its a long term contract, no one wants him on this terms and we have to try and make it work. I don't believe for a second that he falls into the 'get rid at all cost' category. What we have to do is to surround him with top quality players were he's not constantly in the spot light anymore. Not everyone is meant to be a Cantona, an Ibra or a Ruud.
 
If we were watching him as a player at another club, or had he been a foreign born signee here and had the same performance/career trajectory, far more of us would be comfortable asserting that his issues are largely down to the ego and arrogance associated with making idols out of young players and handing them superstar wages and status before it's deserved.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
Genuinely think he's our worst winger behind Antony and Pellestri. One of the poorest players in our squad who is very lucky that the rest of the team seem to really want to set him up for shots for some reason. I would prioritise getting rid of him over Sancho, Casemiro, McTom, or anyone else.
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Come on now. I'm not a fan at all, but this is just silly.
 
Doracle said:
How many left wingers in the big European leagues had 30GA last season out of interest? I’m fairly certain no one managed it in the premier league. Leão and Kvarat didn’t in Italy, Williams didn’t in Spain.

Now, I agree with you that Rashford is a excellent player, so we should have greater expectations, but he’s also playing in a more dysfunctional team. Surely we should be setting realistic targets accordingly? Perhaps 20-25GA would be sensible, subject to seeing how well set up the team is this year?
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You keep mentioning the dysfunctional team bit as if Rashford is some victim of his circumstances, when in reality it would appear that he's a major part of that dysfunction.
 
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