All those comments about Jones were made when it was reported that Liverpool is gonna sign him. You implied in your post, that people are proclaiming this a great deal because he was signing for us, which has been proven wrong by all the subsequent posts that I've quoted.
Henderson to Liverpool | Confirmed
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All those comments about Jones were made when it was reported that Liverpool is gonna sign him. You implied in your post, that people are proclaiming this a great deal because he was signing for us, which has been proven wrong by all the subsequent posts that I've quoted.
Almost certainly.
Have a look through the earlier pages of the Henderson and Jones threads. Jones has been the subject of near-unanimous praise, Henderson almost the exact opposite.
Methinks this "blatant bias" you refer to is just people who happen to have a different opinion to you about the relative quality of the two players.
A comment from this very thread a day ago which summed up most of the fanbase.
Yes, laughing at your own fanbase because you're oh so much more objective than them...lovely stuff.
What is it that Henderson's shown at this point that Mark Noble hadn't at the same stage? Both broke into the team at the age of 19-20 and established themselves as an important player, both showed a level of technical ability and maturity beyond the average English midfielder but not what you'd call top notch in either sense, both showed the versatility to play out wide or in the middle...
Indeed. And that's fair enough. I would suggest though that the vast majority of people on here have watched neither extensively enough to decide that one's great and the other isn't.
I was just pointing out the similarities between the two, and the fact that there is a significantly pro United bias in many people's opinions.
Not surprising on a Manchester United board I suppose but there you go.
I'm not laughing at anybody - I was simply defending my position to which a lot of the "fanbase" seem to have taken umbridge at simply bcause I didn't join in with the laughing at Liverpool and had my own opinion. there was a simlar response when I had an opinion on the Andy Carroll thread.
I don't think my opinions are any better or worse than anyone elses. I joined the board because I enjoy talking about football and getting involved in the debate.
I do consider myself "objective" but don't think I'm any better because of it.
To answer your question - probably nothing, save that he's attracted a bid from a top club who obviously think he's worth a punt. Football is a game of fine lines and taken chances so sho's to say what might happen to any player when faced with a decision on their future.
Why are you continuously ignoring the fact that people were still stating how good he was when he looked to be going to Liverpool?
What bias? Nobody even thought we would bid for Phil Jone until a few hours ago while it was public knowledge that SAF have been keeping tabs on Henderson.
It did seem like you were looking down on others when you talked about how amusing it was to see such blatant bias.
I'm not ignoring anything.
Maybe people were suggesting that - but nobody was talking about figures. I suspect that had it been common knowledge that he'd cost so much (more than Ashley Young will supposedly cost) a lot of people would have been shouting about how it was a waste of money when we have four quality defenders, or that we need midfield players instead.
I was simply drawing comparisons between two deals for two young english players (to teams who arguably need to strengthen other areas) whereby one is considered a masterstroke and the other a waste of money - and then proceeded to voice my opinion that a lot of that is down to pro United bias on the message board in general.
I accept of course that people have different opinions on different players and also accept that people might rate one over another and fair enough.
People may very well have sufficient footballing knowledge to decide one young players is "worth" the fee and another not. I don't, and would suggest most people commenting on here don't either - but thy are entitled to their opinion. I was just voicing mine that some comment on here is motivated by pro United or anti "other club" sentiment.
It wasnt intended to sound like that - indeed the post that started it all off was half intended to be tongue in cheek given my earlier posts.
Is this still happening? No further news on this which could impact Sunderland's bid of our trio of players
Read on RAWK a while back that the transfer was confirmed on Liverpool tv.
How much was the fee?
I think so. Henderson looks a decent footballer, nothing less, nothing more to me. From whatever I've seen of him he doesn't look like he has the talent to become a top player. Looks okay. Decent in most aspects, not particularly great at any.
And that seems to be the vibe about him from most people too. Decent young English talent making a name for himself at Sunderland.
I haven't seen Jones but people almost across the board seem to rate him as a top top talent.
How is that bias?
Look at this fee they are quoting and some wants us to sell ours for less.
I dont really want to get into this again.
I suspect a lot of people who have probably seen very little of either were quick to call Liverpool for spending a large sum of money on a young player. Then when we do exactly the same its a great bit of transfer business. I simply pointed this fact out, largely because people seemed shocked that I didn't agree with their opinions on Henderson being another example of Liverpool wasting money.
For the record a reporter for TalkSport this morning said that his contacts at Liverpool confirmed that the deal is worth £16 million, but Ngog will be valued at £5 million. So, if Ngog signs it'll cost them £11 million - tidy bit of business I reckon.
Sky seem to think it's £16M + N'Gog.
You seem to be showing the exact bias you are laughing at other people for.
You rate Henderson highly but others do not, he certainly looks a decent young player but he hardly set the international scene alight, I know harsh but still he wilted on his big day although I am sure he could come good.
how does that work out again? you are saying that the two deals are independent and sunderland are valuing N'Gog at 5 million?
Guardian said Liverpool are paying 16m pounds independent of N'gog, I tend to think 16m + N'Gog would make sense given the valuations that have been flying around.
No it won't. If Henderson only cost them 11 million, N'Gog would still be at Liverpool.
Fair enough. You still seem to be missing the point with this Liverpool bias suggestion though, if we had signed him for £15m+ people would have been complaining about it being a waste of money, him not looking good enough...
These are posts from when he was linked with us to prove as such.
While on the other hand, there's been countless posts praising Jones throughout the season when we've not been linked with him, and been plenty more posts saying that they're disappointed that Liverpool are going to get him and think it's an excellent signing when it looked like they were in for him so...I don't see why you keep banging on about this bias rather than accepting you were blatantly wrong.
I find it funny that we aren't starting to hate Henderson as he's moved to the scum... There's death threats to P.Jones already there and it was a totally... Oh what a player ----> feck him now, don't want him thread LoL
Tony Barret of the Times and Prentice of the Liverpool Echo is saying the same thing (16m straight cash), so that's what I'm going with.
If so, it's still expensive but a bit more sane than the 20m originally touted.
Its a fair deal for both sides. Liverpool met sunderland's valuation off-set using Ngog and got a potential young player.
It seems that the going rate for any England U-21 international is north of 15m, so I don't think either Henderson or Jones are particularly over-priced. Call it the "James Milner effect" if you wish.
On the basis of what I saw of the two of them last season Jones looks to have a lot more potential, so I'm delighted he's the one that ended up at United. I watched Henderson closely in a few games when we were linked with him and really couldn't see what the fuss was about. Jones, on the other hand, was someone that caught my eye long before he was ever linked to United. He just oozed class.
On the basis of what I saw of the two of them last season Jones looks to have a lot more potential, so I'm delighted he's the one that ended up at United. I watched Henderson closely in a few games when we were linked with him and really couldn't see what the fuss was about. Jones, on the other hand, was someone that caught my eye long before he was ever linked to United. He just oozed class.
Henderson has a good character and will work well under Kenny. I don't think he'll be a flop by any means but it's not the kind of signing which will make the other teams sweat.
I meant - that they'll be getting rid of a player who is clearly surplus to requirements. Good to move one on who's not in the plans when you're bringing one in.
He's also probably on a decent contract of at least £1 million a year so that'll save them a few quid if they can move him out.
Seems to be that if Ngog agrees terms they'll pay £11 million and him and if not will pay £16 million straight cash. Either way it seems that the deal will go through.
How?
I rate both players as it goes, think they'll both be England regulars in the long run. This is regardless of whom they play for or who they sign for so you seem to be missing my point.
According to Tony Barret from the Times it's 16 million cash plus N'Gog.
Which would fit with the widely quoted figure of 20m.
Oh well - case of wait and see I suppose. May turn out to be "undisclosed" so we might never find out.
where are you getting this from? According to his twitter account, it's 16m straight up.
I'm not going to get into this again.
The "red tinted specs" to which I refer are clear in more than just this thread, and usually result in me getting into debates such as this when I pass comments to which others may not agree.
As I said above I dont think my opinions are better or worse than anyone elses, nor am I surprised (or particularly bothered) by lack of objectivity from some posters on a United message board.
My post which seems to have started this was meant half jokingly in reference to our own new signing and was (admittedly) designed to get a bit of a bite from those I had been debating with earlier.
Apparently not. But if he does, his fee will be taken out of the 16m fee.
How on earth is it bias or 'red tinted specs' when opinions have not changed from when it looked like Jones was going to Liverpool and Henderson was linked with us?
Henderson linked with us: "not good enough"
Henderson going to Liverpool: "not good enough"
Jones linked with Liverpool: "he's a great buy, gutted we're missing out"
Jones coming to us: "he's a great buy, so chuffed we're getting him"
Opinions don't alter and yet you're accusing people of bias; how?!
Yeah to be fair I have always got the impression we were all quite keen on Jones and not so much Henderson. And that has been for the past 6-8 months not just the last couple of days.
Yesterday morning I was a tad concerned when I thought Jones was on his way to Liverpool.
But that is not to say Henderson will not be a good purchase for them. And if it is £13M + N'Gog I dont think we can laugh too hard at them over paying either. N'Gog is the type of player most fans would drive to his next club
Yesterday morning I was a tad concerned when I thought Jones was on his way to Liverpool.
But that is not to say Henderson will not be a good purchase for them. And if it is £13M + N'Gog I dont think we can laugh too hard at them over paying either. N'Gog is the type of player most fans would drive to his next club
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