It's just racism.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
To be fair, I think she was stating that it wasn’t racism as Jews and Germans are both white. I’ve heard that as a view from someone too. Jewish is a religion and a race. The nuance between the two is enough to trip people up.
Not defending her. But I do kind of see her point. It’s an easy and lazy judgement to say that Hitler and the Nazis were universally bigoted facist white master race supremacists.
The theme of what she was stating was solid. She just has no concept or understanding of the facts at hand. On the one hand I’d say she shouldn’t be this naive as she presents a massive tv show. On the other…. She presents a massive tv show and didn’t exactly sit an exam.
In the modern colloquial, racism is probably fine. But technically, it's something more like ethno-tribalism since it's based on ethnicity rather than "race" such as if Han Chinese look down on non-Han Chinese or Mexicans discriminate against Central Americans or how some English and French view each other.
I think we have a way to go before we are too politically correct.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40797723.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40797723.html
Whoopi’s confusion is understandable IMO. The modern West has tended to impose distinct categories of identity - “religion”, “race”, “nationality”, etc. - on everyone, categories which would have different implications or make little sense in terms of pre-modern identities (and in the specifically American context it seems to me that rather clear-cut racial distinctions tend to be foremost in peoples’ minds, for obvious enough reasons). Given that Jewish identity derives so much from a rich pre-modern Jewish heritage, with all its complexities, it tends to defy this modern categorization, leading in turn to misunderstandings such as this one.
In any case she apologized and that should be the end of it.
In any case she apologized and that should be the end of it.
It’s crazy how racist we are in Ireland. I think you need to step away from it to realise how bad we are. After 12 years in London the casual racism you notice in Ireland is astonishing. Which is even more depressing when it’s combined with a big increase in ethnic diversity over that same period of time.
Not that the link above is casual racism.
Or anything to do with political correctness?
Yeah, it’s an understandable ‘mistake’. It’s also a bit weird that a lot of the shit she is getting comes from people who spend a lot of their time lecturing others on intersectionality.
Having said that didn’t the Nazis persecute POC as well as Jews? History not my strong point!
I think political correctness is to do with inclusivity on the ground, at the internet level it's just something to fight about?
You know me too well…
What?!
Racism for the Nazis had a much broader meaning. They also considered the Russians inferior despite them some of them being blonde.
I think the general racism definition just depends on there being a group in power and low-power group. The groups can be defined by skin colour, but also by hair colour, head shape etc.. But I think there does not need to be an actual difference between the groups. It is sufficient if one of the groups discriminates against the other even based on a supposed difference... like lower IQ.
Or sexuality? Is homophobia also racism now?
Posted this in the libs of tik tok thread as a joke, but it fits into this discussion about race and how people get categorised:
Me thinks yes... if for example Argentinians were thinking to kill all Uruguayans because of them being supposedly gay.
But it probably would not be racism if the Argentinians just hated the gay Argentinians, even wanting to kill them.
So, there need to be an alleged biological marker that distinguishes both groups clearly.
But, the Nazis applied there race theory even to German people ... for example gays or people with disabilities... so even in the case of Argentinian gays we might speak of racism ( in race being dependent on certain biological markers).
Yeah they embraced a lot of post Darwin 'thinking; in this regard.
I can't recommend this enough
https://thenewpress.com/books/exterminate-all-brutes
Yeah, there were very few ideological differences between segregationist US and Imperialist Britain and the Nazis whe it came to race. It was only afterward depicted as an ideological war by the winners.
Chauvinism.
The Irish, the Jews, Gypsies, and the Iberians were looked down up on by the Anglo Teutonic Europeans as inferior races.
Right. But in their world, did race mean the same as ethnicity?
We're all from the same world dude.
But I think so, I'm not sure of the question. I think they saw Anglo Germans as the superior, Africans as inferior and everyone in-between as varying degrees inferior to the anglo Teutons
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Let me rephrase it: was their definition of race, in those days, the same definition we'd use now for ethnicity?
edited aboveSort of... but then again not.
The Nazis for examples considered Germans to be 45% of Nordic race (the number might be wrong, but they did have one.) They also differentiated between North Germans and South Germans, assuming that the Northerners were more Nordic. The Nordic race was supposed to be the top of the Aryan ladder. So there were other races also considered as Aryan... just not as good as Nordics.
But, it was not a stringent theory... and it probably clashed with every day reality where ethnicity was probably the main race marker... except for Jewish and disabled people.
There were Jews who looked 100% Nordic and they still got gassed. Also some were condidered Jewish because they had one jewish anscestor they were not even aware of.
I think many Jews just viewed themselves just as non-Christian Germans. They eyetest would not have revealed who was jewish and who was not.
Is that the kind of thing we're supposed to be ok with not to be labeled a SJW, snowflake, woke or whatever the new alt-right buzzword of the moment is?
I’ve posted about Jimmy Carr and his gypsy jokes on here before. They we’re from around the early naughties and he’d obviously never do them today but they were hugely offensive. Gypsies we’re seen as fair game back then. In an era before social media, high profile gypsies like the Fury family and TV programmes about gypsy life there were few gypsies in UK life in a cultural sense so they had no right to reply.
I must be getting old because I find his pedo jokes really distasteful now as well.
I must be getting old because I find his pedo jokes really distasteful now as well.
Not at all. It’s appalling. I posted it because it’s the sort of thing that has people defending it purely, it seems to me, as a reaction to that stuff. Anyone with their head screwed on would surely be able to recognise that sort of thing for what it is.
According to one the replies, this is from a new Netflix special?
It's from his most recent Netflix special I think (Dec 2021).
It is.
Fair enough. It’s shocking that he’s still doing them to no reaction.
Plumber awarded £25,000 by tribunal over ‘Half-dead Dave’ nickname at work
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-25000-tribunal-half-dead-dave-nickname-work/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-25000-tribunal-half-dead-dave-nickname-work/
Grim.
Does any minority group poked fun at by comedians on TV really get a right to reply? I guess you had high profile black, Asian and Jewish comedians, but not like they got anything near the same airtime.
The programmes about gypsy life were particularly prurient, focusing on punch ups and scantily clad young women.
The Japanese also spring to mind, with every programme on Japan basically pointing and laughing at aspects of their culture we find weird.
Jesus, that Carr clip is horrible.
In this longer version he does the joke then immediately provides his idea of a justification for doing it:
Of course he tweeted this.
I don't think any minority group except for gypsies would have such an offensive joke made about them today by a mainstream figure like Carr. Maybe the right to reply is the wrong phrase, what I meant was spokespeople in the mainstream culture, like the tweeter complaining about this joke appears to be (although I've never heard of him). In the early 2000s there were little to no avenues for that to happen. What do you think would happen if that joke was made about the Jews, or something similarly offensive about black people or muslims. There would be loads of outraged voices of influence. It would be something of a national scandal with GMB have viral interviews about it.
Not all programmes about gypsy life were as you describe. There was a Channel 5 series called Gypsy Kids (I think) which was much more sympathetic towards the issues that gypsies face in the UK. There have been others too.
Yeah that's what I was referring to saying I can't think of any gypsy comedians who might take the piss back as an example.
I can only think of Fury, who's obviously had his own controversies, and some clan head bloke who was a very minor celebrity for a while as gypsy people with profile.
I only just listened to the clip and yeah that feels from another age. He would never dare say it about jews.
I think it was the gypsy weddings programme i saw, I didn't see any others.
I saw a designated gypsy camp in the Cotswolds and it was directly next to a massive sewage treatment plant. That seemed like another result of having no voice.